Thoughts on New Daytona

[116500LN]

Originally Posted by nfld

Hi Online at Omega watched it is $6k

It's actually $5,250, but that's retail price. You can get a brand new one from a trusted dealer here on TRF or other sources with warranty for $3400-$3800. Gray market is like $3200. Used is around $2500-$2900. Obviously, the point is saving money and not going to the boutique to pay full price.

[REFZ]

I will never ever pay a premium for whatever product you can think of.
Paying a premium is stupid and a waste of money no matter what argument you come up with.

[willnyc]

woah! drop this thread before i went to sleep and didn't expect this response so fast. I really wanted to do a poll but couldn't for the life of me figure it out at 2am EST. I also forgot to say i thought about the $17k price point and decide to buy a 1974 vintage daytona instead a month ago(6263) for about $45k but i keep coming back to this watch(116500) maybe i just want a daily wearing watch i don't want to take the 6263 out everyday cause i def bang the match a few times.


@116500LN
I thought about buying the speedmaster.. problem was when i started to do research i end up looking to try to buy a .321 movement which was the original one and it cost $10-$15k so spending that much was not a good idea if i can just buy the 116500.
@Helmi
I feel you on paying grey market prices but as a reseller of other things i feel there is a need for this market so that the hype is there. Im pretty sure more then 60% on the waitlist is planing on reselling.

i feel i don't have a good chance get a call from an AD as i only have my name on 1 AD the one on 5th ave New York and this is because i wanted to buy the new sea dweller and was told i was the 2nd person to prepaid for it last month during the preview but about 2 weeks ago I asked them what the update was on a watch I'm #2 on the list and was told i was pushed to like 20 because a bunch of "VIP" got on the list. The AD told me they will have me on a 2 year list instead of the 5 year list but their list is "CLOSED" and any other AD i been to in the city I was told their list is closed also.

[116500LN]

Originally Posted by willnyc

i thought about the $17k price point and decide to buy a 1974 vintage daytona instead a month ago(6263) for about $45k

I lol'd at that for some reason. $3k doesn't seem like a crazy premium for you. It is for a regular Joe, but if you can spare $45k for a vintage Daytona, the extra $3k is not that crazy.

[willnyc]

Originally Posted by 116500LN

I lol'd at that for some reason. $3k doesn't seem like a crazy premium for you. It is for a regular Joe, but if you can spare $45k for a vintage Daytona, the extra $3k is not that crazy.

i get what you mean but theres no cheaper way for me to get the vintage.. i guess I'm jut being cheap at this end.

Also see Rolex raising these prices in 5 years to these current grey market prices

[Wingman244]

I really wanted the new Daytona, but the entire limited supply game killed my passion for Rolex. I understand the game Rolex is playing - just not going to be a part of it. If they don't want my money that is fine. I ended up getting a Zenith El Primero Striking 10th. I am sure not everyone's cup of tea but I love it.

And just when I thought about coming back to Rolex for a diver we have the SD43 - same thing. I think I am going to pick up a Grand Seiko Spring Drive diver instead.

[Seaswirl]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Love this topic and how some justify paying so much for what is not a necessity for life.
As others have said, not logical to most of us to have this need to pay so much more for a bezel.

Do what makes you happy.

Yes, there seems to be a lot of rationalizing decisions already made over this watch. I think it's nuts to pay over retail for what will be a readily available watch over time. At $18.5k, there are other watches I'd be looking at instead of the Daytona. Luxury watches are inherently irrational, but reason and value are still relevant, at least for me. To each their own though.

[MariettaMike]

As the cliche goes -- there is an arse for every seat.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by MariettaMike

As the cliche goes -- there is an arse for every seat.

Maybe when you figure out what the "three small dials" on a Daytona are for you won't consider all those paying premiums to be just another "Arse for a seat".

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=515837

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

My thought: it's incredibly silly to pay premium for this watch. My personal opinion that it's not worth it, it's too dainty, and has exactly zero wrist presence notwithstanding, it's just not that hard to obtain.

I was able to get one at a small ad out of state that I had never been to before by schmoozing the salesperson, paying cash, and giving them $200 Ruth's Chris gift card.

They even wrote on the deposit receipt, at my request, that I would be the first.

And they even sent it to me to save taxes.

True story.

People who pay premiums either have more money than patience, are incredibly pressed to get an insubstantial (in my opinion) piece, or are so caught up in the hype that they're happy being impetuous.

Or maybe they're college students (lol) with a not-quite-developed understanding of the world and just enough credit card spending capacity to make the magic happen.

Anyway, you'd be surprised what building a relationship will get you or just asking nicely and offering a nice token of appreciation. Most salespeople at an ad (unless they own the place) enjoy a nice middle class lifestyle and don't get anything outside their income for standing up and showing people shit all day. I've given gift cards, heck my main ad that sold me the my white dial Daytona last year received flowers for Valentine's Day.

You want to know how to save yourself money and potentially get the Daytona more quickly and at msrp, there ya go.

The UK market is totally different to the US evidently...what you describe above is just not possible in UK - go to as many out of town AD's as you like the answer will be the same ....

[sensui]

I think you need to enjoy the 6263 and forget the 116500 while waiting on a list. That's just imo though, beautiful Daytona.

[AS1]

Originally Posted by REFZ

I will never ever pay a premium for whatever product you can think of.
Paying a premium is stupid and a waste of money no matter what argument you come up with.

mic drop!

[Will1979]

I think the best plan is to buy now at a premium AND get on the waitlist. Then, when your AD watch comes in you can turn around and sell it at a premium to offset the original preimium. You'd only be out the time value of money on $4-5k.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

There's no reason you shouldn't have one on your wrist tomorrow.

I was AD waitlisted and after a year got fed up, decided to take immediate action. If you do the math, the delta between list price plus tax and going grey market with prices recently dropping is only $3,500 USD. In my case, that was the cost of a Datejust I rarely wore, maybe five times a year, decided it was well worth losing that watch to gain my grail.

24 hours later, I had this on my wrist. Check out the grey market pricing, there's no reason for anyone to be waitlisted anymore. $3,500 is real money, no doubt, but if you have a drawer full of watches you never wear you'll be surprised how easy it is to say goodbye to one or two to get a watch you really want.

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

This is just not true.

If you had your way and those Daytona's that wound up in the grey market for $18,000 were controlled and stayed with their original AD's for $12,400 you would have the same ridiculous shortage and a massive brand problem for Rolex.

At MSRP, you'd have all those Daytona's going only to the big buyers at each AD, most of whom would buy them because $12,400 is cheap to them and there is no risk of losing money. They'd put them in a safe for a decade or two, sell them at a profit years later, they wouldn't care about actually wearing it.

And with no grey market, you'd have thousands of Average Joe's (raises hand) swallowed up in frustration, prevented from ever getting their hands on one, we'd be on 10-15 different AD waiting lists for 10-15 years before the next model came out and we, again, move to the back of the line.

The grey market is good for everyone. It's good for the AD who in a tough economic environment gets a cash bonus through the back door. It's a bonus for the grey dealer who also helps the AD's move dead inventory that doesn't sell, it's not an easy business. And, big win, it's good for the Average Joe who instead of being frustrated and hateful of the Rolex brand can feel like part of the insiders-club because all that takes is a few thousands dollars and that's not so hard to pony up.

Point is, if Rolex really controlled things and shut the back door to the grey market, average buyers would still never see a new SS Daytona and instead of a competitive market of secondary watch dealers, you'd have a bunch of really rich guys hoarding them and eventually trickling them out on eBay. It's better the current way. It's actually cheaper and easier for the Average Joe this way. This theory that if there was no grey market I could just waltz into a Rolex dealer in NJ and pick up a SS Daytona at MSRP is utterly untrue. And the $3500 I spent last month to go grey is money I don't even think about because I know that I'm wearing something I couldn't have for 10 years and will be worth exactly what I paid for it, grey market and all, those years down the road.

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

Recently there are posters putting up incoming threads all proud of their brand-new-in-box prior gen SS Daytona 116520's that they paid a hefty sum for.

Are they "fools" too?

Because what they paid for them in 2017 is a lot more than they would have paid a grey market dealer for back in, say, 2002. In fact, where do you think this new-in-box inventory is coming from? Rich guys with chummy AD relationships who paid MSRP for a SS Daytona a decade ago, put them in a safe, and are selling them now for more money than the grey dealers did back then.

But we don't look at them as "fools". No. We applaud them for finding such cherry "future vintage" pieces when the money spent and the philosophy of working around the AD is the same damn thing as some guy going grey market on a SS Daytona Ceramic in 2017. If 15 years from now I showed up with a brand new-in-box SS Daytona Ceramic for $22,000 everyone would be so proud of me and my "vintage" score, yet I show up with the same watch for $17,000 today and somehow I'm a fool who overpaid a grey dealer. You see my point, yes?

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

Yes, there are more Average Joe's in the world than rich collectors, but Rolex isn't making enough Ceramic Daytona's to satisfy even the rich people let alone the rest of us.

The ones from grey dealers and our forum friends look like a lot of inventory, I see about 20 for sale right now, but if the typical AD is only getting 2 to 6 units per year you need to realize that they have a lot more preferred customers than that and they get first dibs to scoop these up for the same reason as grey dealers- to sell them at a profit. So either way, they wouldn't wind up in our hands.

It's a good discussion, but this isn't going to change anything. Grey dealers have a lot of fans and a lot of eager buyers for a watch like this, they're not going anywhere. I thank mine every day from keeping me off a frustrating waitlist.

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

No need to use the word "justified". No one is trying to justify anything

Ok

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by REFZ

Paying a premium is stupid and a waste of money no matter what argument you come up with.

....and waiting until 2022 to allow inflation to catch up to the 2017 grey market price is smart?

[Seaswirl]

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

....and waiting until 2022 to allow inflation to catch up to the 2017 grey market price is smart?

Do you really think it will cost $18.5k for a white Daytona in 2022? Even with any price increases, I doubt it. To the contrary, I suspect that they'll be readily available by then and for far less than current gray pricing. I wonder how many people who bought the previous ss Daytona at a steep mark up still feel it was a sound decision. Probably not too many. Again, to each their own. Just not for me.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by willnyc

woah! drop this thread before i went to sleep and didn't expect this response so fast. I really wanted to do a poll but couldn't for the life of me figure it out at 2am EST. I also forgot to say i thought about the $17k price point and decide to buy a 1974 vintage daytona instead a month ago(6263) for about $45k but i keep coming back to this watch(116500) maybe i just want a daily wearing watch i don't want to take the 6263 out everyday cause i def bang the match a few times.


@116500LN
I thought about buying the speedmaster.. problem was when i started to do research i end up looking to try to buy a .321 movement which was the original one and it cost $10-$15k so spending that much was not a good idea if i can just buy the 116500.
@Helmi
I feel you on paying grey market prices but as a reseller of other things i feel there is a need for this market so that the hype is there. Im pretty sure more then 60% on the waitlist is planing on reselling.

i feel i don't have a good chance get a call from an AD as i only have my name on 1 AD the one on 5th ave New York and this is because i wanted to buy the new sea dweller and was told i was the 2nd person to prepaid for it last month during the preview but about 2 weeks ago I asked them what the update was on a watch I'm #2 on the list and was told i was pushed to like 20 because a bunch of "VIP" got on the list. The AD told me they will have me on a 2 year list instead of the 5 year list but their list is "CLOSED" and any other AD i been to in the city I was told their list is closed also.

Well that's one way to solve the problem

Congratulations on the vintage

[REFZ]

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

....and waiting until 2022 to allow inflation to catch up to the 2017 grey market price is smart?

I don't think that way, because I don't see watches as an investment.

I have to safe up quite some time to be able to buy my Rolex watches and therefore I can't justify paying a higher price than MSRP for myself.

If I can't get it for the price I'm willing to pay (max. at MSRP) now or in the future so be it and I don't have the need to be the first to have a new model like the new Daytona.

It's up to you how you want to spend your money and how you think about it.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by REFZ

I don't think that way, because I don't see watches as an investment.

I'm not saying a new Daytona is an investment either. I'm saying that the current $17,000 asking price on the grey market in 2017 will likely be very close to the Rolex Price Increases + MSRP + Tax in 2022 or beyond.

Originally Posted by REFZ

It's up to you how you want to spend your money and how you think about it.

Exactly. Thank you. So perhaps when you said "paying a premium is stupid and a waste of money" you might have considered the feelings of those of us who paid a premium for our Daytona's.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

Exactly. Thank you. So perhaps when you said "paying a premium is stupid and a waste of money" you might have considered the feelings of those of us who paid a premium for our Daytona's.

As the judge often says to the opposing counsel when they object as their case is suddenly going south.........."overruled.......counselor, you opened the door to this discovery".

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Not a bad argument but if he could buy one today at list all the argument goes out the window.

Rolex should be fixing this issue.

There is no reason for these inflated prices for a standard SS Daytona with a ceramic bezel.

I'm hearing they maybe doing just that. Rumours are swirling. AD's will no longer put names on waiting lists for high demand product. High demand product will only be offered to established customers with a long history of prior Rolex purchases. High demand product ideally paired at time of sale with other Rolex purchases. High demand product to be restricted to AD sales and the greys are seriously in the cross hairs. Seems all the griping about the lack of access to must have luxury goods has been heard loud and clear. The logic seems if you can't increase production you reduce the buyer pool. When someone has no expectation of being able to buy something they change focus and stop griping or so the theory goes. We shall see

[Calatrava r]

It is all demand driven by fake Rolex lack of production. A contrived market hysteria to stimulate sales for all the Rolex watches which do not sell in this softening market.

The bottom will fall out this time as wearable devices and cell phones are rapidly making mechanical watches a thing of the past. Too bad Rolex is not on the right side and supporting their customers by having reasonable supplies. Years from now this will be seen as a major catalyst to the end of mechanical watches.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by cornerstore

I'm hearing they maybe doing just that. Rumours are swirling. AD's will no longer put names on waiting lists for high demand product. High demand product will only be offered to established customers with a long history of prior Rolex purchases. High demand product ideally paired at time of sale with other Rolex purchases. High demand product to be restricted to AD sales and the greys are seriously in the cross hairs. Seems all the griping about the lack of access to must have luxury goods has been heard loud and clear. The logic seems if you can't increase production you reduce the buyer pool. When someone has no expectation of being able to buy something they change focus and stop griping or so the theory goes. We shall see

Exactly. When you have no expectation of being able to buy a Daytona at the insiders price of $12,400 after waiting a year on a godforsaken list you simply pay a little more and buy it immediately from a grey market dealer.

This isn't rocket science. Try to buy premium Super Bowl tickets at face value. Try to buy orchestra Hamilton tickets at face value. Try to get first row U2 tickets from Ticketmaster. You can't. So you pay 30% to 100% more to Stubhub and you're off to the show. If you attend these types of ticketed events, you do this all the time. The Daytona is no different.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

It is all demand driven by fake Rolex lack of production. A contrived market hysteria to stimulate sales for all the Rolex watches which do not sell in this softening market.

The bottom will fall out this time as wearable devices and cell phones are rapidly making mechanical watches a thing of the past. Too bad Rolex is not on the right side and supporting their customers by having reasonable supplies. Years from now this will be seen as a major catalyst to the end of mechanical watches.

Or it's demand driven by a bunch of rich guys who want the latest and greatest toy and are willing to pay a premium to get their hands on one.

For me, I'm a Rolex Sport model guy and I always wanted a Daytona but I never liked the look of the steel bezel models. As soon as I laid eyes on the black ceramic bezel, it was all over, it was the first modern Rolex I'd been excited about since my Submariner back in 2002, had to have one. Tried it the "right" way, put myself on an AD list, moved up a whopping 9 spots in a year meaning another 5-7 years to go, enough already.

[Dusko.Popov]

Reading this thread makes me appreciate the benefit of having a good relationship with an ad and being prioritized for new releases. Being the double-digit person on "the list" is for the birds.

I would have never thought that people would be paying 50% over the msrp of the watch 15 months after Basel. Wow.

[Dusko.Popov]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

The UK market is totally different to the US evidently...what you describe above is just not possible in UK - go to as many out of town AD's as you like the answer will be the same ....

I'm so confused why the United Kingdom has such issues getting steel sport model pieces. I hear it mentioned often but I'm still not sure what the circumstances are causing it.