Thoughts on New Daytona

[willnyc]

Since i got into the watch game late (Oct 2016) I'm really torn on getting the white 116500. The shortest list i was able to get on with all the people i know at an AD was 2 years. But who knows if thats even possible. List are now closed and there is huge wait. So maybe the demand is real. Im just wondering who has pay the secondary market price and who has paid primary. Its about $12,400 i figure paying a premium of $3000 or so more is justifiable in my mind if i can wear it for the next 3-5 years even before i get called up from an AD

[116500LN]

That is the idea, yes. $3k seems cheap if you break it down over time (same silly tactic car salesmen try to use on you), but at the same time, that's the cost of a Speedmaster Professional. Might as well buy a Speedy in the meantime like myself and wait for the call.

[brucethemanlee]

i paid the primary $ from AD in NY in Feb...

[Helmi]

Originally Posted by 116500LN

That is the idea, yes. $3k seems cheap if you break it down over time (same silly tactic car salesmen try to use on you), but at the same time, that's the cost of a Speedmaster Professional. Might as well buy a Speedy in the meantime like myself and wait for the call.

I second that approach. Can't justify to myself being used by grey market dealers and pay extra even if I can afford it. I would rather wait for a while and enjoy other watches I own. To each their own way of thinking. The good news is that you can't go wrong with a Daytona

[dadonn2]

Here's a pretty good breakdown of someone who paid the premium and their rationale behind it. The original poster, Chad, is pretty experienced with buying and parting ways with watches so I think his process is sound. Whether or not you agree is personal of course.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=540396

[Andad]

Not a bad argument but if he could buy one today at list all the argument goes out the window.

Rolex should be fixing this issue.

There is no reason for these inflated prices for a standard SS Daytona with a ceramic bezel.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by willnyc

Since i got into the watch game late (Oct 2016) I'm really torn on getting the white 116500. The shortest list i was able to get on with all the people i know at an AD was 2 years. But who knows if thats even possible. List are now closed and there is huge wait. So maybe the demand is real. Im just wondering who has pay the secondary market price and who has paid primary. Its about $12,400 i figure paying a premium of $3000 or so more is justifiable in my mind if i can wear it for the next 3-5 years even before i get called up from an AD

There's no reason you shouldn't have one on your wrist tomorrow.

I was AD waitlisted and after a year got fed up, decided to take immediate action. If you do the math, the delta between list price plus tax and going grey market with prices recently dropping is only $3,500 USD. In my case, that was the cost of a Datejust I rarely wore, maybe five times a year, decided it was well worth losing that watch to gain my grail.

24 hours later, I had this on my wrist. Check out the grey market pricing, there's no reason for anyone to be waitlisted anymore. $3,500 is real money, no doubt, but if you have a drawer full of watches you never wear you'll be surprised how easy it is to say goodbye to one or two to get a watch you really want.

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Not a bad argument but if he could buy one today at list all the argument goes out the window.

Rolex should be fixing this issue.

There is no reason for these inflated prices for a standard SS Daytona with a ceramic bezel.

Rolex arn't inflating the prices - the grey dealers are.

Rolex only sell a watch once to an authourised dealer and make exatly the same amount of profit on each one, no more no less.

Its the dodgy AD's shifting stuff out the back door to the highest bidder instead of at RRP to genuine customers thats the main problem.

If all the watches currently advertised online as 'BNIB unworn with stickers' had been sold as intended by Rolex to genuine customers through an AD at RRP there wouldt be anywhere near the sillly wait times currenly being quoted.

Yes, Rolex could supply more watches to AD's to try and reduce wait times, but would it or would it just mean more watches going through the back door to the highest bidder.

I dont blame Rolex for the inflted Ceramc Daytona prices only the grey market vultures who are exploiting the situation - and of course the crazy fools willing to pay over the odds that just give the vultures a market that otherwise wouldnt exist.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Not a bad argument but if he could buy one today at list all the argument goes out the window.

Rolex should be fixing this issue.

There is no reason for these inflated prices for a standard SS Daytona with a ceramic bezel.

Have to agree on that one but where there are fools willing to pay crazy prices for a slither of ceramic many DaytonaC will be bought and flipped to the grey market for profit.

[OmegaJJH]

If Rolex ramped up supply to fulfil all waiting lists they would kill off the silly grey market pricing immediately. They won't do it though.

[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by Helmi

I second that approach. Can't justify to myself being used by grey market dealers and pay extra even if I can afford it. I would rather wait for a while and enjoy other watches I own.

Exactly. Whether or not $3,500 means much to you, don't let the grey middleman chump you. If everyone had the same attitude we'd all be further ahead. But the more people play into the hands of flippers and grey dealers the more it will happen. The individuals patronizing the grey market dealers are part of the problem.

And $3,500 indisputably buys some good watch.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

Rolex arn't inflating the prices - the grey dealers are.

Rolex only sell a watch once to an authourised dealer and make exatly the same amount of profit on each one, no more no less.

Its the dodgy AD's shifting stuff out the back door to the highest bidder instead of at RRP to genuine customers thats the main problem.

If all the watches currently advertised online as 'BNIB unworn with stickers' had been sold as intended by Rolex to genuine customers through an AD at RRP there wouldt be anywhere near the sillly wait times currenly being quoted.

Yes, Rolex could supply more watches to AD's to try and reduce wait times, but would it or would it just mean more watches going through the back door to the highest bidder.

I dont blame Rolex for the inflted Ceramc Daytona prices only the grey market vultures who are exploiting the situation - and of course the crazy fools willing to pay over the odds that just give the vultures a market that otherwise wouldnt exist.

Originally Posted by OmegaJJH

If Rolex ramped up supply to fulfil all waiting lists they would kill off the silly grey market pricing immediately. They won't do it though.

Originally Posted by lovetherolex

Exactly. Whether or not $3,500 means much to you, don't let the grey middleman chump you. If everyone had the same attitude we'd all be further ahead. But the more people play into the hands of flippers and grey dealers the more it will happen. The individuals patronizing the grey market dealers are part of the problem.

And $3,500 indisputably buys some good watch.

This is just not true.

If you had your way and those Daytona's that wound up in the grey market for $18,000 were controlled and stayed with their original AD's for $12,400 you would have the same ridiculous shortage and a massive brand problem for Rolex.

At MSRP, you'd have all those Daytona's going only to the big buyers at each AD, most of whom would buy them because $12,400 is cheap to them and there is no risk of losing money. They'd put them in a safe for a decade or two, sell them at a profit years later, they wouldn't care about actually wearing it.

And with no grey market, you'd have thousands of Average Joe's (raises hand) swallowed up in frustration, prevented from ever getting their hands on one, we'd be on 10-15 different AD waiting lists for 10-15 years before the next model came out and we, again, move to the back of the line.

The grey market is good for everyone. It's good for the AD who in a tough economic environment gets a cash bonus through the back door. It's a bonus for the grey dealer who also helps the AD's move dead inventory that doesn't sell, it's not an easy business. And, big win, it's good for the Average Joe who instead of being frustrated and hateful of the Rolex brand can feel like part of the insiders-club because all that takes is a few thousands dollars and that's not so hard to pony up.

Point is, if Rolex really controlled things and shut the back door to the grey market, average buyers would still never see a new SS Daytona and instead of a competitive market of secondary watch dealers, you'd have a bunch of really rich guys hoarding them and eventually trickling them out on eBay. It's better the current way. It's actually cheaper and easier for the Average Joe this way. This theory that if there was no grey market I could just waltz into a Rolex dealer in NJ and pick up a SS Daytona at MSRP is utterly untrue. And the $3500 I spent last month to go grey is money I don't even think about because I know that I'm wearing something I couldn't have for 10 years and will be worth exactly what I paid for it, grey market and all, those years down the road.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree on that one but where there are fools willing to pay crazy prices for a slither of ceramic many DaytonaC will be bought and flipped to the grey market for profit.

Recently there are posters putting up incoming threads all proud of their brand-new-in-box prior gen SS Daytona 116520's that they paid a hefty sum for.

Are they "fools" too?

Because what they paid for them in 2017 is a lot more than they would have paid a grey market dealer for back in, say, 2002. In fact, where do you think this new-in-box inventory is coming from? Rich guys with chummy AD relationships who paid MSRP for a SS Daytona a decade ago, put them in a safe, and are selling them now for more money than the grey dealers did back then.

But we don't look at them as "fools". No. We applaud them for finding such cherry "future vintage" pieces when the money spent and the philosophy of working around the AD is the same damn thing as some guy going grey market on a SS Daytona Ceramic in 2017. If 15 years from now I showed up with a brand new-in-box SS Daytona Ceramic for $22,000 everyone would be so proud of me and my "vintage" score, yet I show up with the same watch for $17,000 today and somehow I'm a fool who overpaid a grey dealer. You see my point, yes?

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by schnitzerphilip

This is just not true.

If you had your way and those Daytona's that wound up in the grey market for $18,000 were controlled and stayed with their original AD's for $12,400 you would have the same ridiculous shortage and a massive brand problem for Rolex.

At MSRP, you'd have all those Daytona's going only to the big buyers at each AD, most of whom would buy them because $12,400 is cheap to them and there is no risk of losing money. They'd put them in a safe for a decade or two, sell them at a profit years later, they wouldn't care about actually wearing it.

And with no grey market, you'd have thousands of Average Joe's (raises hand) swallowed up in frustration, prevented from ever getting their hands on one, we'd be on 10-15 different AD waiting lists for 10-15 years before the next model came out and we, again, move to the back of the line.

The grey market is good for everyone. It's good for the AD who in a tough economic environment gets a cash bonus through the back door. It's a bonus for the grey dealer who also helps the AD's move dead inventory that doesn't sell, it's not an easy business. And, big win, it's good for the Average Joe who instead of being frustrated and hateful of the Rolex brand can feel like part of the insiders-club because all that takes is a few thousands dollars and that's not so hard to pony up.

Point is, if Rolex really controlled things and shut the back door to the grey market, average buyers would still never see a new SS Daytona and instead of a competitive market of secondary watch dealers, you'd have a bunch of really rich guys hoarding them and eventually trickling them out on eBay. It's better the current way. It's actually cheaper and easier for the Average Joe this way. This theory that if there was no grey market I could just waltz into a Rolex dealer in NJ and pick up a SS Daytona at MSRP is utterly untrue. And the $3500 I spent last month to go grey is money I don't even think about because I know that I'm wearing something I couldn't have for 10 years and will be worth exactly what I paid for it, grey market and all, those years down the road.

You justify the grey dealer by saying they help AD's move dead inventory that doesn't sell!

That's not what we are talking about here - were talking about the hottest watch of 2016/17 (pre SD43 of course) that AD's can sell all day long not dead stock that's going to sit unsold for years and years.

Your justification doesn't stack up.

Count all the hundreds of Ceramic Daytona's currently being advertised on various grey dealers websites and imagine how many more 'average Joes' there would be walking around with the watch they really want if those watches had been sold as Rolex intended to genuine customers through AD's at RRP!

I'm sure there are more 'average Joes' in the world than there are rich collectors just looking to make a long term investment by locking the watches away for 10 years in a bank vault.

[brandrea]

There's no easy fix to this. Rolex only sells through ADs but they know the gray market exists. The grays and the AD's have a happy free market co-existence. None of this will likely change.

To the OP, you have two options at this point:

1. Start calling ADs to see if they have one in stock and be prepared to travel and pay cash immediately, no haggling.

2. Pay up and get the best gray deal you can find.

[1William]

If I really wanted a watch I would find the most reasonable deal possible and I would pay or trade to get the watch I want. For some people $3500 is not a lot. To others it is and for a third group it is the principle of paying more than the msrp. If the Daytona is it for you, buy it. Wear it and enjoy.

[HL65]

I paid $12,400 out the door for my black one last June. I have white coming soon and will pay $12,400 out the door for it as well. I don't fault people for paying grey market price though if they don't want to wait. The market is what it is and people can do what they like with their money.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

That's not what we are talking about here - were talking about the hottest watch of 2016/17 (pre SD43 of course) that AD's can sell all day long not dead stock that's going to sit unsold for years and years.

Count all the hundreds of Ceramic Daytona's currently being advertised on various grey dealers websites and imagine how many more 'average Joes' there would be walking around with the watch they really want if those watches had been sold as Rolex intended to genuine customers through AD's at RRP!

I'm sure there are more 'average Joes' in the world than there are rich collectors just looking to make a long term investment by locking the watches away for 10 years in a bank vault.

Yes, there are more Average Joe's in the world than rich collectors, but Rolex isn't making enough Ceramic Daytona's to satisfy even the rich people let alone the rest of us.

The ones from grey dealers and our forum friends look like a lot of inventory, I see about 20 for sale right now, but if the typical AD is only getting 2 to 6 units per year you need to realize that they have a lot more preferred customers than that and they get first dibs to scoop these up for the same reason as grey dealers- to sell them at a profit. So either way, they wouldn't wind up in our hands.

It's a good discussion, but this isn't going to change anything. Grey dealers have a lot of fans and a lot of eager buyers for a watch like this, they're not going anywhere. I thank mine every day from keeping me off a frustrating waitlist.

[Dusko.Popov]

My thought: it's incredibly silly to pay premium for this watch. My personal opinion that it's not worth it, it's too dainty, and has exactly zero wrist presence notwithstanding, it's just not that hard to obtain.

I was able to get one at a small ad out of state that I had never been to before by schmoozing the salesperson, paying cash, and giving them $200 Ruth's Chris gift card.

They even wrote on the deposit receipt, at my request, that I would be the first.

And they even sent it to me to save taxes.

True story.

People who pay premiums either have more money than patience, are incredibly pressed to get an insubstantial (in my opinion) piece, or are so caught up in the hype that they're happy being impetuous.

Or maybe they're college students (lol) with a not-quite-developed understanding of the world and just enough credit card spending capacity to make the magic happen.

Anyway, you'd be surprised what building a relationship will get you or just asking nicely and offering a nice token of appreciation. Most salespeople at an ad (unless they own the place) enjoy a nice middle class lifestyle and don't get anything outside their income for standing up and showing people shit all day. I've given gift cards, heck my main ad that sold me the my white dial Daytona last year received flowers for Valentine's Day.

You want to know how to save yourself money and potentially get the Daytona more quickly and at msrp, there ya go.

[ejvette]

If your on a list that is fantastic buy your Daytona today pay the 3K vig. When your name finally comes up buy the new one at msrp from that AD and flip it and get your 3K premium back you got to enjoy your piece for all that time and all is right in the world

[MCO1]

I can see both sides of this argument! I am on a wait list for the Daytona and want one really bad but not bad enough to pay the Grey Market Premium. Then again my wait should only be a 12 to 18 months not 3 to 10 years.

This is only being argued over really one watch in the whole Rolex line. Most of them barring the the BLNR and Deep Sea Blue could be had at most AD's within a month and on the Grey or Pre-owned market immediately at enough discount to warrant skipping the AD.

The Daytona is the only Rolex I would ever consider buying new at an AD due to the culture it creates. Any other Rolex I will pick up on the Grey or pre-owned market.

I for one don't want to give up the ability to buy my other watches from Grey and pre-owned dealers on the account of one "freak" in the watch market that many got to have.

[Masteryacht]

I got one after a year wait, but would not pay over list for one. I felt that way before I got one and I feel the same way now. Don't get me wrong, the watch is fantastic and beautiful, but I think the chase and mystique make it a little anticlimactic in the end. After all, it's just a watch. Just my opinion.

[nfld]

Originally Posted by 116500LN

That is the idea, yes. $3k seems cheap if you break it down over time (same silly tactic car salesmen try to use on you), but at the same time, that's the cost of a Speedmaster Professional. Might as well buy a Speedy in the meantime like myself and wait for the call.

Hi Online at Omega watched it is $6k

[ccaballero]

Note that The Gray dealers are pricing used Daytonas at $3k premium. It is not only BNIB that are getting priced with the gray premium.

[beshannon]

I would not pay a premium for what amounts to a new bezel, just my .02

[123Blueface]

Love this topic and how some justify paying so much for what is not a necessity for life.
As others have said, not logical to most of us to have this need to pay so much more for a bezel.

Do what makes you happy.

[schnitzerphilip]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Love this topic and how some justify paying so much for what is not a necessity for life.
As others have said, not logical to most of us to have this need to pay so much more for a bezel.

Do what makes you happy.

No need to use the word "justified". No one is trying to justify anything, just giving options to those who are asking, in our experience there's no reason to wait 3+ years when you can have the watch for the same money today.

And please remember that $12,500 is a lot of money, talking about how this is not one of life's necessities really doesn't apply whether you pay MSRP or gray market. It is a frivolous luxury purchase either way.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Love this topic and how some justify paying so much for what is not a necessity for life.
As others have said, not logical to most of us to have this need to pay so much more for a bezel.

Do what makes you happy.

haha if you're here on TRF and own a Rolex, you are automatically among those who justify paying for what is not a necessity in life.

Here's my response to the OP.
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=540396

[MCO1]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Love this topic and how some justify paying so much for what is not a necessity for life.
As others have said, not logical to most of us to have this need to pay so much more for a bezel.

Do what makes you happy.

For that matter MSRP is pretty ridiculous. This will be the most I have ever paid for a Rolex when I get it at retail. I thought the slightly north of 8K was ridiculous when I bought my Yachtmaster. I paid 2k for my first Sub over 20 years ago I doubt the Daytona C is a 6 times better watch.

[AK797]

I think a fair market for this "hot" watch is that greys are selling it at around a £2K premium. I think this is fair to all sides - Rolex, ADs, VIPs and normal customers. The fact that it is still selling at a £5-6K premium says to me both supply and the price are wrong on this watch, and they should both be adjusted, for a fairer market.