Where did all the experts go?

[Rolexism_]

All the education is currently on shortage!


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[watchmework]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Hey I dunked a sub dial in acetone today, I think I should be stripped of my title

A fitting post for your 19k post Bas

[hdrazor251]

Originally Posted by Boothroyd

Read the "wheat", post where you want, skip the "chaff".

This.

Hope your doing well Dan. Go Pack Go.

[Hendrikus]

Is there not a solution to this? Can we have a sub-forum that is something like "Rolex Gossip/Buying from AD or Grey woes" and then leave the other forums for the more technical stuff?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Hendrikus

Is there not a solution to this? Can we have a sub-forum that is something like "Rolex Gossip/Buying from AD or Grey woes" and then leave the other forums for the more technical stuff?

We do have space for more technical and other Rolex talk here...but as you can see it's not very well patronised compared to the more mainstream section. Maybe we should just delete that one.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

We do have space for more technical and other Rolex talk here...but as you can see it's not very well patronised compared to the more mainstream section.

Have to agree Adam when this forum started many of the mods spent many hours getting most Rolex and other watch information on forum.But with today's push button age most want everything done for them instead of using the search function most all watch related things can be found on forum.

[Muxi]

Sadly that seems to be the flavor nowadays. However, many new members are just as motivated to learn in the forum. In fact, some new members have been wearing Rolex watches 30 years ago and have been participating in the early watch forums.

[RJC]

Originally Posted by SeaAndSky

I guess I don't see a problem with that. Two of the recent nicknames are just silly. I find them grating to read and hear. To me they're a symptom of the decline of the forum. Everything I learned about Rolex I mostly learned here as well. And as others have said, this is the most gentlemanly corner of the internet I've ever been to. But along with the decline in content and the change from a love of watches to money and greed, I also see ugliness creeping in. I find myself spending less time here. Today is a a great example. This is one of the few threads worth peeking into in my opinion and sadly it's a negative thread about the state of the forum and nothing to do with Rolex watches.

Totally agree

[supacarrot]

Originally Posted by Norbert

Or complain about nicknames for the watches?

"It's called the Batgirl"

"Don't you call my watch feminine names"

*5 pages of drama ensues*

[THC]

Originally Posted by seabreeze60

Forums evolve and change with the times. There’s still tons of good content buried in the daily drama.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well said Dan

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Norbert

Or complain about nicknames for the watches?

This immature, childish and silly nick name calling by newbies has to stop indeed.
No real watch aficionado wants to be associated with this.

[Langnam]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Hello,



Years ago, this forum used to be flooded with really interesting, esoteric knowledge of Rolex shared by people who really knew their stuff. The first time I heard about a "Bart Simpson" cornet was here. The first time I started learning about the stop-start history of the Daytona was on here, etc.



But now it is primarily a mix of "how do I get a Rolex" (universally, go grey) or "is this Rolex over-polished" (universally, yes) or "is this a good deal" (universally, I wouldn't) with a few incomings mixed in...



Where did all the experts go? Where did all the amazing information posts go?



The other day we had one of said posts - about Rolex hands not being in-house. It felt like half the replies where, "why are you posting this?" so I believe the culture has fundamentally shifted away from knowledge based posts.



So I ask, where did all the education go?



-Paul

Run out of town by the “investors.”


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[Naples09]

Originally Posted by HL65

OP only here for 2 years and last 2 years has been mostly bitching about shortages, grey dealers, nicknames, valuations etc. I remember when Forum was purely Rolex enthusiasts for most part. A lot of focus was in vintage as well so yes things do change. It would be nice to shift back and away from the same thread topics over and over again.

X2

Originally Posted by brandrea

can we bring back Mon

We need to bring back the safe cracker. He was a riot.

[10klakes]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well a few are still around but myself lately have to drag myself on forum as now its little more than the stuff you get on Facebook mainly brain dead stuff.

Aegler made movements for Rolex.

The famous Techni-Quadron some information from Gruen web site ."Doctor's Watches" were so-called because the large seconds dial was handy for timing a patient's pulse. These however were not sold only to doctors. The watch was advertised as a timepiece for technicians and "radio and mechanical engineers"—anyone who needed to measure time in seconds. The 877 movement, manufactured by Aegler in Biel, was also used in the Rolex Prince; this unusual movement gives the watch its distinctive "dual dial" design. Hours and minutes are confined to the upper half of the dial, while the entire lower dial is dedicated to seconds. The Techni-Quadron provided a useful alternative to the tiny seconds hands on most watches from this era, which can be as little as 2mm , and are not practical to use for timing etc.


Aegler made movements for Rolex (which at this time had no own movement manufacturing capability)and has made Rolex movement ever since but now incorporated fully into the Rolex name.Gruen and Rolex were Aegler's biggest customers, and were both large shareholders as well. And the full company name at one time was, Aegler, Societe Anonyme, Fabrique des Montres Rolex & Gruen Guild A. Gruen and Rolex

Gruen sold their Aegler shares in the early 1930s,to Hans of Rolex after they moved all production to the Precision Factory(just another name to appear on a Rolex dial). About this time, Aegler became increasingly tied to Rolex through the sale of stock and shares.And Today, the main Rolex building in Biel is the old Aegler factory, and though it is now owned by Rolex, it is still run by the Aegler family.

A few mostly now forgotten names on Rolex dials.

Air Lion,Air-Tiger,Air-giant,Space-Dweller,SkyRocket,Speedking,Falcon,Orchid,Observat ory ,Tridor, Athlete,Commando,Turtle Timer,Canadian Empire, Oyster Lipton, Rolex Scientific,Rolex Everest,Tudor Advisor,Oyster Junior Sport, Oyster Raleigh, Oyster Commander, Oyster Recorda, Oyster Edison, Oyster Grenfell, Oyster Shipmate and Oyster Standard,and there are a quite a few more that I cannot remember now.

One of my favourite vintage Rolex the Prince doctor dial below.




Perpetual and not my AD Said This Or That or is it Safe.

In todays market perpetual its just Rolex speak for being automatic winding,but Perrelet invented the first self winding mechanism around 1770,later Breguet improved it and called his winding system perpetuelles.Now perhaps this is where Rolex got the idea to call there automatics Perpetual.But it was a guy called John Harwood from the Isle of Man UK,now he in 1923 took out a UK/World patent for the first truly automatic winding wrist watch.

Now he went on with backing to produce many thousands of these watches,but mainly owing to the very hard industrial depression in the mid 1920s to 1930s in the UK he went broke and out of business .Now old Hans Wilsdorf of Rolex being a very clever but very shrewd man bought and took up this auto-winding patent for the Rolex Watch Company,and in the very early 1930s incorporated it into the oyster design case.

This with the newly acquired waterproof screw down crown patent that he got from Perregaux and George Peret now they first took out a Swiss patent in 1925 for the very first twin lock crown system .This with the Oyster type case,screw down twinlock crown and the acquired patent auto wind mechanism the first Rolex Oyster was born. But in those very early oyster days it only wound around 300 degrees .Now Rolex did improved the design by the help of Hans brother in-law,who made it more efficient by winding a full 360 degrees,and a power reserve then of around 36 hours.After the auto watch and the oyster case later the oyster type bracelet, Rolex really took off the rest is just pure marketing genius by Hans Wilsdorf oF the RWC.


First Rolex Submarine.

Old Hans Wilsdorf was a clever man,and wanted to increase sales worldwide and especially in tropical climates.So he tried to make a watch that was waterproof,now the evolution of the first oyster case was started.His idea was very simple,he would fit a case inside a case,and he called it the Submarine watch.Now this worked,but had certain drawbacks you had to open the case to wind it,and the outer case had a threaded screw on bezel to protect the watch.This was not very user owner friendly and caused wear on the hinges and bezel threads.So he started to look for a new idea for a truly waterproof wrist watch.So we had to wait 30 odd years for the rebirth from Submarine,to the first Submariner as we know it today.I suppose now is the most plentiful mechanical watch in this world today with many millions of them made .


Fastbeat Vs Slowbeat mechanical Movements.

The high-beat vs low-beat argument has been running as long as I've taken an interest in movements around now 55 years (I am talking about watches here) and opinions are still divided.

One of the more highly regarded chronograph movements is still the Zenith "El Primero" running at 36000 bph. So highly regarded as we all know it was used by Rolex in the Daytona.Now the Zenith calibre 3019 was first introduced in 1969 and I'm pretty sure if there were any problems with hi-beat movements, 47 years is long enough for them to manifest themselves.

Ulysse Nardin marine chronometers have always been highly regarded but it is a little known fact that for years, they were fitted with a high-beat (36000bph) version of the ETA 2824-2, UN calibre NB11QU. Zodiac produced at least four high-beat movements from 1971-73, all with Albert/Shine ebauche, and fitted to the "SST" models. Longines experimented with calibres 430 to 433 from 1967 but when they introduced twin-barrel movements in 1975, chose to revert back to 28800 bph,and in these days Longines made some excellent in-house made movements to equal or better most.

Changing the subject slightly, the Longines twin-barrel movements were something I wish had survived in current production,a brilliant movement,but very expensive to make. Calibre 890, 892 & 893 had stacked twin barrels whereas calibres 990 to 994 had side-by-side barrels in a movement only 2.95mm thick. The power reserve of around 44-50 hours was respectable but not particularly impressive for a twin-barrel movement, although I'm sure that if R & D had continued on this movement this would have been substantially improved.And would have put many a modern movements to shame,from any manufacturer or brand even Rolex.

Now the main advantages of slower beat rates (18,000 , 19,800 and 21,600 ) are less immediate. Lower power needs allow for softer mainsprings, limiting stress and friction throughout the wheel train, winding train, and the escapement. Service intervals are longer and more flexible, and part wear replacements are negligible.But in general low beat movements will generally not perform as well as a fast-beat one, and while slow beat movements can perform very well it requires more skill and effort from the watchmaker to achieve and Rolex achieved that though the many years, through laborious positional adjustments and high quality movement parts . Now slow-beat is used primarily by manufactures of high-craft movements, most of whom consider today 21,600 BPH to the best.But most of these type of movements say Patek being quite delicate and can easily be put out of adjustment by the slightest Mal adjustment like say a small fall or big shocks.


Some of the advantages of fast-beat (28,800 v/h and 36,000 v/h) are obvious, better isochronism, and better performance in both vertical and horizontal positions even with minimal adjustment or no adjustment at all.This is one of the reasons fast-beat has been almost universally adopted by mass-producers.If you think of a how fast a quartz movement beats,while Mechanical watch usually have 28000 to 36000 beats per hour, which is 480 to 600 beats per minute (Hz), and therefore cannot compete with quartz watches that have around 4000 to 8000 beats per second (10 times faster).So in theory the mechanical High beat movement should be more accurate,with very little difference in over all power reserve, because they use a much stronger main spring.Now some say there is the possible extra wear factor in the Hi beat movement,but IMO as long as the recommend services are done,there is little or no difference,service is very important with any mechanical movement.

Now when Rolex's did the modification to the Zenith chronograph, where in addition to reducing the beat rate, they discarded the regulator and installed there own vastly larger Microstella balance wheel,and regulator.And when Zenith would not,or could not, supply the vast quantities Rolex needed, they was forced to design there first ever chrono movement the cal 4130 in 2000. Which although now quite old is still going strong today and basically unchanged.

This is short list of outstanding movements that should all easily achieve a daily consistency of five seconds or better on the wrist.All of the current Rolex calibers including the Cal 4130 this a outstanding chronograph movement with a excellent power reserve and one of the best around now. But there are many others in the same class accuracy wise but less power reserve.

The ETA 2892-A2, ETA 2824/2T chronometer grade, ETA Valjoux 7750,Unitas 6497/8,Omega 2500, JLC 889/2 , JLC 960, Longines 990 (Lemania 8815), PP 215, PP 240,now IMHO the Grand Seiko 430 is one of best movements ever made .Others like the Zenith 400,Zenith 670, GP 3100 all excellent movements, plus there are many more.Would not call any modern movement made today best,whats best in one persons eyes is better in another's.But most movements today even from Alpha to every day Seiko, Miyota and all the high end brands all have there place in today's horological world.

Excellent post and information.

Thanks for sharing this-

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Hello,



Years ago, this forum used to be flooded with really interesting, esoteric knowledge of Rolex shared by people who really knew their stuff. The first time I heard about a "Bart Simpson" cornet was here. The first time I started learning about the stop-start history of the Daytona was on here, etc.



But now it is primarily a mix of "how do I get a Rolex" (universally, go grey) or "is this Rolex over-polished" (universally, yes) or "is this a good deal" (universally, I wouldn't) with a few incomings mixed in...



Where did all the experts go? Where did all the amazing information posts go?



The other day we had one of said posts - about Rolex hands not being in-house. It felt like half the replies where, "why are you posting this?" so I believe the culture has fundamentally shifted away from knowledge based posts.



So I ask, where did all the education go?



-Paul

Good post, thanks!
I have been here over a year now and this post made me think:
I am part of the problem—I’ve been polluting this fine forum...
I am very grateful for all the information&education; I’ve learnt a lot. Maby posting less, trying to read&learn more in the future?


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[bigfatpauli]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

We do have space for more technical and other Rolex talk here...but as you can see it's not very well patronised compared to the more mainstream section. Maybe we should just delete that one.

Is there a better way to communicate this to the members and, for example, when something does get posted in the wrong area, it gets moved? I'm thinking of the example of the post yesterday with the watch hands not not being made by Rolex. That was posted in general, but should be in the tech forum.

Is there a way to really sort the chaff from the wheat?

Of even if mods could mark certina threads as educational (in any forum) and then users would have a "filter for study" button or something.

It is great to see some for the TRF team thinking about a solution or change.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Is there a better way to communicate this to the members and, for example, when something does get posted in the wrong area, it gets moved? I'm thinking of the example of the post yesterday with the watch hands not not being made by Rolex. That was posted in general, but should be in the tech forum.

Is there a way to really sort the chaff from the wheat?

Of even if mods could mark certina threads as educational (in any forum) and then users would have a "filter for study" button or something.

It is great to see some for the TRF team thinking about a solution or change.

We move misplaced posts around all the time, when we're not stopping scammers or tracking down con artists or banning rude jerks or clearing lists of posts awaiting moderation. There's really a lot to do for a handful of guys working on their own free time, voluntarily. Fine tuning the content to be more user friendly is not exactly top priority

[Greg5512]

It would be nice to get away from complaints, talks about pricing, which I believe is a subterfuge to drive them up more, and actually discuss things substantively. I’m thinking about moving on as these dominate the forum now.

[Naples09]

Originally Posted by Greg5512

It would be nice to get away from complaints, talks about pricing, which I believe is a subterfuge to drive them up more, and actually discuss things substantively. I’m thinking about moving on as these dominate the forum now.

Pricing posts have always dominated the forum. The difference was back in 2007 or so it was who got the biggest discount on a sub or gmt. And constant praise about the trusted sellers offering subs at 15% off msrp.

How quickly things change to how much profit can I make and how dare the trusted sellers charge a 100% premium for Daytona’s.

[bigfatpauli]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

We move misplaced posts around all the time, when we're not stopping scammers or tracking down con artists or banning rude jerks or clearing lists of posts awaiting moderation. There's really a lot to do for a handful of guys working on their own free time, voluntarily. Fine tuning the content to be more user friendly is not exactly top priority

That's fair. Is eliciting more help an option? I'm sure there are people here, myself included, who would be more than willing to lend a hand. Even if it is just to help sort posts.

The membership has grown exponentially, has the moderation team?

[HauteHorlogerie]

Sick and tired of every thread being about prices and no AD inventory and basel... gets old quick

[Syed117]

I haven't been here that long, but some of the old guard are still around and I genuinely get excited when I see they've posted.

Maybe things will go back to the way they once were but I doubt it.

I know everyone has to start somewhere , but these days most new members from the last year or two come across terribly because their motivations are different.

We used to have way more discussions about the watches themselves. The new crowd just wants to complain or show off their complete lack of common sense or knowledge.

I see the guys who have been here for 10 years or more and I'm willing to listen to anything they have to say. They've earned it. They have the perspective.


Edit - here's one thing that infuriates me personally. All the new complainers crying about the trusted sellers charging premiums these days. Guess what? That's the market. 4 years ago every trusted seller was getting everyone at least 10% off all steel sports models except the Daytona. Everything was under retail. It's so annoying seeing all these babies crying about the current situation when they weren't around when things were the other way around.

[itsjknight]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

Hello,

Years ago, this forum used to be flooded with really interesting, esoteric knowledge of Rolex shared by people who really knew their stuff. The first time I heard about a "Bart Simpson" cornet was here. The first time I started learning about the stop-start history of the Daytona was on here, etc.

But now it is primarily a mix of "how do I get a Rolex" (universally, go grey) or "is this Rolex over-polished" (universally, yes) or "is this a good deal" (universally, I wouldn't) with a few incomings mixed in...

Where did all the experts go? Where did all the amazing information posts go?

The other day we had one of said posts - about Rolex hands not being in-house. It felt like half the replies where, "why are you posting this?" so I believe the culture has fundamentally shifted away from knowledge based posts.

So I ask, where did all the education go?

-Paul

They probably got tired of all the stupid names people give Rolex watches... like batman, batgirl etc

It's a different crowd on here then then the old TURF forums or even when this one started when JJ was still here.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Syed117

I haven't been here that long, but some of the old guard are still around and I genuinely get excited when I see they've posted.

Maybe things will go back to the way they once were but I doubt it.

I know everyone has to start somewhere , but these days most new members from the last year or two come across terribly because their motivations are different.

We used to have way more discussions about the watches themselves. The new crowd just wants to complain or show off their complete lack of common sense or knowledge.

I see the guys who have been here for 10 years or more and I'm willing to listen to anything they have to say. They've earned it. They have the perspective.


Edit - here's one thing that infuriates me personally. All the new complainers crying about the trusted sellers charging premiums these days. Guess what? That's the market. 4 years ago every trusted seller was getting everyone at least 10% off all steel sports models except the Daytona. Everything was under retail. It's so annoying seeing all these babies crying about the current situation when they weren't around when things were the other way around.

I feel so sorry...
People are getting really nasty here... why?
I think that all of us newcomers; we don’t deserve the hatred/angry thoughts presented here.
Maby this forum would be better without us?
Maby we should all try to be polite&respectful towards eachother.
Maby my point of view is not always the best?
This kind of angry writing is not good for the atmosphere.
I truly respect all the older people here (all the knowledge, all the support..), but after reading this thread I start to feel that we newcomers are not liked here.
All the best!!!


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[Dr.Brian]

When I joined 10 years ago there were less than 30k members. A significant amount of them were characters, old buddies, old TZ cast offs, actual collectors, etc.

Now there are almost 230,000 members. In some ways thats great for the forum and proves it is a useful resource and time sink, however there are not 10x as many old pros, collectors, etc. now. And there are way more look at me time wasters and generally unhappy folks lurking around.
It’s a victim of it’s success.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

I feel so sorry...
People are getting really nasty here... why?
I think that all of us newcomers; we don’t deserve the hatred/angry thoughts presented here.
Maby this forum would be better without us?
Maby we should all try to be polite&respectful towards eachother.
Maby my point of view is not always the best?
This kind of angry writing is not good for the atmosphere.
I truly respect all the older people here (all the knowledge, all the support..), but after reading this thread I start to feel that we newcomers are not liked here.
All the best!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No worries. This place is full of nice members who joined recently.

[GB-man]

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

That's fair. Is eliciting more help an option? I'm sure there are people here, myself included, who would be more than willing to lend a hand. Even if it is just to help sort posts.

The membership has grown exponentially, has the moderation team?

If you want to help/support TRF, you could become a Pledge Member. In the meantime, this thread is being moved to the feedback & support section, as it's not actually about Rolex watches.

[Welshwatchman]

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by bigfatpauli

The membership has grown exponentially, has the moderation team?

No.

Once, the mod team represented about 10% of the active members and we have fewer active mods now that then.

We ain't hiring though.