Need an education

[Reikolexguy]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Interesting write-up but if you Google Rolex 32xx issues you'll find a lot of talk about ongoing problems with that movt series, here and on other forums and sites.

Also, I'm not sure about Spring Drive but I'm pretty sure you can get modern GS mechanicals serviced here in Hong Kong and at other Seiko Service Centres worldwide.

Sorry, I only had a passing awareness of some of the recurring issues that the new Rolex movement had been throwing up. Didn’t think it would be so widespread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[duquephart]

Originally Posted by Reikolexguy

I currently own both GS & Rolex watches, so I hope my two cents are worth reading.

I’m probably wrong but I think both companies are the only vertically integrated watch manufacturers in the world. This means they manufacture every single component of the watch in-house.

What I love about both companies is that they are constantly making incremental improvements and pushing the envelope of their existing lineups.

Rolex came up with their 32xx series movement that improved on the power reserve, robustness and anti magnetism capabilities of the previous generation. Rolex movements are arguably the most solid, low maintenance, well thought out workhorses in the industry.

It really isn’t as easy as it seems to make what was already an excellent movement even better. Rolex Superlative chronometer test standards that exceed industry standards is also an admirable accomplishment.

I like how Rolex pays just as much attention to its basic offerings as to its most luxurious, and this is the world’s biggest mechanical wristwatch manufacturer by volume by a country mile.

In the case of GS, there’s arguably been a horological leap in recent years with their new dual impulse escapement for its mechanical hi-beats and an even more accurate spring drive series (as if it wasn’t deadly accurate already).

The GS hi-beat accuracy standards, though somewhat lacking on paper compared to Rolex, performs far better in real life. Though This is based entirely on my personal observation.

GS guarantees accuracy of its hi-beat watches between -3 - +5/day. My GS hi-beats have never gone beyond +2/day. Recommended service intervals are far more frequent than Rolex.

My spring drive watches… I stopped tracking their accuracy because they’ve not lost a second even after months of operations.

I haven’t looked at the finishing of my watches under a loupe, but a casual, cursory glance is probably sufficient for a layman to judge that the finish on a GS is better than a Rolex, particularly the hour indices / hands. It’s really razor sharp and mirror like. To use a bad stereotype, it’s samurai sharp.

It’s ridiculously well finished for a watch at the price points that GS is competing in. I can’t emphasise enough how superb the finishing is for a <US$10k GS watch.

The cases of my GS mechanical watches are a lot thicker than my Rolexes, though they are no less comfortable since the lugs curve downward and hug the wrist well.

The Rolex bracelets though, are simply best in class in terms of comfort and user friendliness. GS brackets still feel cheap and rickety, especially their dive watches.

Service network, Rolex is also the undisputed king. It’s far easier to find an RSC.

The biggest problem I face with GS is that all GS watches (spring drive or mechanical) are sent to Japan for servicing. And their servicing cost doesn’t come cheap, sometimes costing more than to service the Rolex. This is compounded by increased frequency of service (especially the hi-beat).

While Rolex continues to hew to their identity as a luxury company by ensuring that the entire package, watch and all feels luxurious, GS philosophy seems to focus more on engineering and taking simply made watches to perfection.

There’s no doubt that in terms of luxury and perceptions of it, Rolex just knocks GS out of the park.

I associate GS with stereotypical Japanese discipline and pursuit of perfection made simple.

I associate Rolex with luxury and robustness. It just feels tough yet regal.

They basically have a one liner on every user manual that pretty much just tells you to occasionally wash your Rolex with soap and water.

The care instructions on my GS user manual though.. is far more elaborate. GS doesn’t even recommend washing its watches under running water. Among other things, they recommend that you soak it in water and gently soap it etc. my GS certainly gives me the impression that it’s far more fragile than my Rolex.

These are just some of the reasons I love both brands and am an avid collector of their watches. Both have very different philosophies / modus operandi, yet both companies inspire legions of fans like no other brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is true only in regard to GS. Rolex still outsources some parts and, as pointed out above, got as vertically integrated as they are only by buying out suppliers (Aegler for instance) rather than in-house development.

[duquephart]

Originally Posted by Reikolexguy

I currently own both GS & Rolex watches, so I hope my two cents are worth reading.

I’m probably wrong but I think both companies are the only vertically integrated watch manufacturers in the world. This means they manufacture every single component of the watch in-house.

What I love about both companies is that they are constantly making incremental improvements and pushing the envelope of their existing lineups.

Rolex came up with their 32xx series movement that improved on the power reserve, robustness and anti magnetism capabilities of the previous generation. Rolex movements are arguably the most solid, low maintenance, well thought out workhorses in the industry.

It really isn’t as easy as it seems to make what was already an excellent movement even better. Rolex Superlative chronometer test standards that exceed industry standards is also an admirable accomplishment.

I like how Rolex pays just as much attention to its basic offerings as to its most luxurious, and this is the world’s biggest mechanical wristwatch manufacturer by volume by a country mile.

In the case of GS, there’s arguably been a horological leap in recent years with their new dual impulse escapement for its mechanical hi-beats and an even more accurate spring drive series (as if it wasn’t deadly accurate already).

The GS hi-beat accuracy standards, though somewhat lacking on paper compared to Rolex, performs far better in real life. Though This is based entirely on my personal observation.

GS guarantees accuracy of its hi-beat watches between -3 - +5/day. My GS hi-beats have never gone beyond +2/day. Recommended service intervals are far more frequent than Rolex.

My spring drive watches… I stopped tracking their accuracy because they’ve not lost a second even after months of operations.

I haven’t looked at the finishing of my watches under a loupe, but a casual, cursory glance is probably sufficient for a layman to judge that the finish on a GS is better than a Rolex, particularly the hour indices / hands. It’s really razor sharp and mirror like. To use a bad stereotype, it’s samurai sharp.

It’s ridiculously well finished for a watch at the price points that GS is competing in. I can’t emphasise enough how superb the finishing is for a <US$10k GS watch.

The cases of my GS mechanical watches are a lot thicker than my Rolexes, though they are no less comfortable since the lugs curve downward and hug the wrist well.

The Rolex bracelets though, are simply best in class in terms of comfort and user friendliness. GS brackets still feel cheap and rickety, especially their dive watches.

Service network, Rolex is also the undisputed king. It’s far easier to find an RSC.

The biggest problem I face with GS is that all GS watches (spring drive or mechanical) are sent to Japan for servicing. And their servicing cost doesn’t come cheap, sometimes costing more than to service the Rolex. This is compounded by increased frequency of service (especially the hi-beat).

While Rolex continues to hew to their identity as a luxury company by ensuring that the entire package, watch and all feels luxurious, GS philosophy seems to focus more on engineering and taking simply made watches to perfection.

There’s no doubt that in terms of luxury and perceptions of it, Rolex just knocks GS out of the park.

I associate GS with stereotypical Japanese discipline and pursuit of perfection made simple.

I associate Rolex with luxury and robustness. It just feels tough yet regal.

They basically have a one liner on every user manual that pretty much just tells you to occasionally wash your Rolex with soap and water.

The care instructions on my GS user manual though.. is far more elaborate. GS doesn’t even recommend washing its watches under running water. Among other things, they recommend that you soak it in water and gently soap it etc. my GS certainly gives me the impression that it’s far more fragile than my Rolex.

These are just some of the reasons I love both brands and am an avid collector of their watches. Both have very different philosophies / modus operandi, yet both companies inspire legions of fans like no other brand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wrong again.

[Reikolexguy]

Originally Posted by duquephart

This is true only in regard to GS. Rolex still outsources some parts and, as pointed out above, got as vertically integrated as they are only by buying out suppliers (Aegler for instance) rather than in-house development.

Thanks for the colour. What are the specific parts that Rolex still outsourced?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reikolexguy]

Just curious, how long have owners of the mechanical hi-beat GS gone before sending it in for its first service?

This is assuming you wear your GS almost daily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[duquephart]

Originally Posted by Reikolexguy

Thanks for the colour. What are the specific parts that Rolex still outsourced?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rolex is very tight-lipped but I've read that crystals, hands, and some screws, etc. are not made in house. Please note that assembling watches from components/parts made in small shops and farmhouses, etc. is how the Swiss watch industry came to be.

[Stud Screw]

I hear you, OP.

What are the main selling points we always hear when people praise Grand Seiko?

"Great finishing."
"Beautifully detailed dials."

Those are nice things, but I'm not sure it is something I'm looking for in an everyday watch. I do think spring drive is a great technology, but maybe not for me.

Besides, Grand Seikos are too damn big.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Stud Screw

I hear you, OP.

What are the main selling points we always hear when people praise Grand Seiko?

"Great finishing."
"Beautifully detailed dials."

Those are nice things, but I'm not sure it is something I'm looking for in an everyday watch. I do think spring drive is a great technology, but maybe not for me.

Besides, Grand Seikos are too damn big.

Have you seen them all? My GS SBGT235 is 36.5mm across and 10mm thick.

[Reikolexguy]

Originally Posted by duquephart

Rolex is very tight-lipped but I've read that crystals, hands, and some screws, etc. are not made in house. Please note that assembling watches from components/parts made in small shops and farmhouses, etc. is how the Swiss watch industry came to be.

Thanks for the update. Good to know that. Does it change your view about Rolex though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reikolexguy]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Have you seen them all? My GS SBGT235 is 36.5mm across and 10mm thick.

GS does have some very excellently proportioned wristwatches.

If I had an unlimited budget, I’d get the Credor spring drive minute repeater and the GS Kodo.

Frankly, I love the range that Seiko, not just GS, offers. It’s just astounding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ichiran]

I have been wearing different variations of Seiko since childhood and this brand kind of "grew up" with me. My first interaction with a Grand Seiko was when a friend showed up one day with a Spring Drive ("SD") and we were all mesmerised by the sweeping second hand. Then I started to research online and watched youtube videos to learn more about their SD watches. With that, I learnt more about the finishing of the case, beautiful dials, dauphine hands, precise time-keeping, and I became enamored with this Japanese brand.

I still remember how fast my heart was pounding when I first saw that landmark Seiko Wako Clock Tower at the traffic junction of the Ginza 4-chome intersection. I spent a long while trying on GS there and at BIC Camera, immersing myself fully with the GS experience. That was unforgettable to this day, and made me wanting to return so badly.

My point is it is difficult to "educate" people online about watches. This is a hobby and I recommend you experience their watches without having an inherent bias after coming from other brands. After that your personal taste takes over.

[Reikolexguy]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I have been wearing different variations of Seiko since childhood and this brand kind of "grew up" with me. My first interaction with a Grand Seiko was when a friend showed up one day with a Spring Drive ("SD") and we were all mesmerised by the sweeping second hand. Then I started to research online and watched youtube videos to learn more about their SD watches. With that, I learnt more about the finishing of the case, beautiful dials, dauphine hands, precise time-keeping, and I became enamored with this Japanese brand.

I still remember how fast my heart was pounding when I first saw that landmark Seiko Wako Clock Tower at the traffic junction of the Ginza 4-chome intersection. I spent a long while trying on GS there and at BIC Camera, immersing myself fully with the GS experience. That was unforgettable to this day, and made me wanting to return so badly.

My point is it is difficult to "educate" people online about watches. This is a hobby and I recommend you experience their watches without having an inherent bias after coming from other brands. After that your personal taste takes over.

Thumbs up!

It was a classmate of mine who first shared with me the beauty of GS.

I was still a broke student back then and could only dream of owning such watches.

Now that I can afford them, I have a greater appreciation for the craftsmanship and attention to detail that goes into GS. Everything is just sharp and well made.

Even managed to convince my dad to buy one for himself!

GS occupies a special place in my heart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk