geneva seal!

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

It seems that's what the unqualified Kid at PP wanted, no one to check and balance their efforts. And it's been downhill ever since imho.

In recent years have been saying to 'trust what you see' versus what a company claims (Patek, Panerai, etc).

MB&F, H. Moser, Czapek, Armin Strom, Roger W Smith, and others don't need a 'seal'... use your eyes (and a 10x loop).

Is the trend for higher end independents to move away from third party certifications?

[HAL330]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Which Rolex watch is ISO 6425 certified then?

Every one that is sold as a dive watch meets ISO6425… as the article explains.

[HAL330]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Is the trend for higher end independents to move away from third party certifications?

Seems like the “cool” thing to do but if you ask me it’s just combination of cost savings and lack of wanting a committee of Swiss watchmaking snobs looking over your shoulder.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Is the trend for higher end independents to move away from third party certifications?

Geneva and METAS are fine by me, yet also use your eyes. COSC is nice for that classic sense of acceptance.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by HAL330

Every one that is sold as a dive watch meets ISO6425… as the article explains.

Only the Sub meets requirements (none of the divers with a date do as they don’t have lume at 3) but still it is not officially ISO certified, which is the point I was making.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree and back before the Swiss COSC was founded watches like the Seiko Grand wiped the floor with all the Swiss brands in competition tests.Now if you were to take let's say 100 non WIS people at random from the street and show them a £5,000 Rolex and say a £35,000 Patek Philip or many other high end brands. I would say that 90- 95% would choose the Rolex watch over the Patek/or other brand. Simply because of the brand awareness and the fact that the word "Rolex" is always linked to luxury,and quality through the amazingly shrewd and clever marketing though the years without the aid of a Geneva seal.

Am with PADI !

Apparently only Chopard, Vacheron Constantin, Cartier, Louis Vuitton, Roger Dubuis, and Ateliers de Monaco are using the Geneva seal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Megalobyte]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

That's not true, but anyway PP now have their own seal, which they claim is more stringent than the Geneva Seal. Let the battle of the Seals commence!

Hey, let’s not encourage…..flippers.

I’ll show myself out, thank you.

[HAL330]

Originally Posted by fskywalker

Am with PADI !

Apparently only Chopard, Vacheron Constantin, Cartier, Louis Vuitton, Roger Dubuis, and Ateliers de Monaco are using the Geneva seal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Never knew Louis Vuitton made a serious watch. Just learned something.

[eespi003]

Originally Posted by eric23

Great info. I guess that is why it costs so much for a Patek!

Right

[rolexpatek363]

More blurb about the Geneva Seal:

Now, the question is, how is this reference quality maintained and certified for each watch by the Geneva Seal? Well, this is probably one of the most common misconceptions regarding the Seal. It is widely believed (and echoed time and again) that finished watches are sent to somewhere off-site where their quality is checked and certified, only to receive the Geneva Seal. What actually happens is that Timelab does not individually certify all Geneva Seal watches off-site, but rather monitors and audits the manufacturing and quality checking processes that happen in-house. There are a few more elements to this that we’ll discuss further into the article.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/geneva-...-roger-dubuis/

[HAL330]

and more from VC on how they comply:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1z-svRvTuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9uosJ_dIck

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by eric23

Great info. I guess that is why it costs so much for a Patek!

The Patek Philippe brand has been a supporter of the Geneva Seal for more than 120 years. Nonetheless, this fervor ended in 2009 and after 123 years Patek replaced the Geneva Seal with that of its own factory. Known as the Patek Philippe Seal, the latter is represented by two overlapping P's and enjoys a superior quality standard. The decision was not at all easy for the brand, which however saw in this move the opportunity to increase its level of quality. The main problem that Patek identified in the old Geneva Seal was the lack of verification of the entire clock. In fact, the Geneva Seal only guaranteed the quality of the movement and the finish, while that of Patek Philippe examines the entire watch, including aspects such as performance and a guarantee of lasting operation.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The Patek Philippe brand has been a supporter of the Geneva Seal for more than 120 years. Nonetheless, this fervor ended in 2009 and after 123 years Patek replaced the Geneva Seal with that of its own factory. Known as the Patek Philippe Seal, the latter is represented by two overlapping P's and enjoys a superior quality standard. The decision was not at all easy for the brand, which however saw in this move the opportunity to increase its level of quality. The main problem that Patek identified in the old Geneva Seal was the lack of verification of the entire clock. In fact, the Geneva Seal only guaranteed the quality of the movement and the finish, while that of Patek Philippe examines the entire watch, including aspects such as performance and a guarantee of lasting operation.

Yes, I think Patek felt that the Geneva Seal was no longer fit for purpose. Actually, I believe that all these silly seals are gimmicks. Dufour, FPJ and (obviously) Grand Seiko show far higher quality standards.

[HAL330]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The Patek Philippe brand has been a supporter of the Geneva Seal for more than 120 years. Nonetheless, this fervor ended in 2009 and after 123 years Patek replaced the Geneva Seal with that of its own factory. Known as the Patek Philippe Seal, the latter is represented by two overlapping P's and enjoys a superior quality standard. The decision was not at all easy for the brand, which however saw in this move the opportunity to increase its level of quality. The main problem that Patek identified in the old Geneva Seal was the lack of verification of the entire clock. In fact, the Geneva Seal only guaranteed the quality of the movement and the finish, while that of Patek Philippe examines the entire watch, including aspects such as performance and a guarantee of lasting operation.

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Yes, I think Patek felt that the Geneva Seal was no longer fit for purpose. Actually, I believe that all these silly seals are gimmicks. Dufour, FPJ and (obviously) Grand Seiko show far higher quality standards.

Except in 2012 shortly after PP made that statement and pulled out they updated their requirements to include all of the functionality (accuracy, water resistance, and main spring reserve, but to name 3) that was missing from the prior finish focused standards .. that was likely fueled by the PP departure form the seal .. so a win for any future Seal watches.

[HAL330]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Yes, I think Patek felt that the Geneva Seal was no longer fit for purpose. Actually, I believe that all these silly seals are gimmicks. Dufour, FPJ and (obviously) Grand Seiko show far higher quality standards.

My GS high beat White Birch while finished beautifully keeps +30 seconds or more a day after 2 attempts by GS to regulate it. Wouldn’t have met the seal requirements post 2012.