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13 March 2021, 04:53 AM | #31 |
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The application thing sucks! No possibility for watch lovers to buy just what they want.
Lange jumping on the hype brainstorming train is and one of the most hideous watches in the history of mankind, the Odysseus, being an application piece says it all. |
13 March 2021, 05:03 AM | #32 |
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I think it seems overall a good strategy by Lange but then I love the Odysseus
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13 March 2021, 05:05 AM | #33 |
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The Odysseus is gorgeous...love mine...but there's a girl for every guy so to speak!
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13 March 2021, 05:54 AM | #34 |
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I think the Odysseus will become the new king among high end sport watches once more people have seen it in person. ALS has really thrown down the gauntlet vs the RO and nautilus IMO.
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13 March 2021, 10:25 AM | #35 |
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and their prices are going up next week
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13 March 2021, 08:32 PM | #36 |
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The Odysseus is wonderful, but I’m not a huge fan of the idea of application pieces for regular production, though with LEs there is validity I suppose.
Having to prove oneself worthy leaves a bad taste. Lange will have to tread carefully as it can sour the relationship with customers. Good will is hard to build and easy to squander. |
14 March 2021, 01:33 AM | #37 |
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I am totally fine with the concept of application pieces. It seems better to me than the games from Patek/Rolex/AP with fake wait lists and mysterious allocation processes and in many cases not knowing what’s possible and what’s really not.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I’ll gladly wait for something I want if I know a realistic timeframe and I’m being communicated with as a valued customer. I also would appreciate being told “no” if something isn’t going to happen. It seems to me ALS may be simply bringing some transparency to the process. I genuinely see nothing bad coming out of this. It gives them better control over pricing. Which should firm up secondary market value. And, it seems to me the process is transparent.
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14 March 2021, 03:19 AM | #38 | |
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At some point, demand for the stainless steel Datomatic from customers with prior Lange purchase histories will be entirely satisfied. There will be no real waiting lists. What happens then? I see three possibilities: (1) Continue to offer this as an "application piece" despite the greatly reduced demand (2) Eliminate the "application piece" status and sell this as a "no prior purchase required" piece (i.e., either an in-stock piece or a pre-sale piece) (3) Discontinue the model (to communicate its "exclusivity" -- which doesn't really need to be in quotes, in that case, because it would be exclusive) If I were Lange, I'd discontinue this watch (and any future non-numbered application pieces) as soon as demand from good, prior customers is satisfied. From a brand's perspective, the problem with numbered limited editions (LEs) is that the brand can't accurately predict how supply will meet demand. If Lange makes 218 Richard Lange Pour le Merite watches in white gold, they don't know in advance if all those watches will sell out quickly or slowly, and it looks bad for the brand if the last 50 of those pieces languish unsold. Producing a non-numbered "application piece" in an open-ended manner that the brand intentionally discontinues as soon as demand from past loyal customers is satisfied solves for that problem. I think that's the smartest strategy. And of course, it's not like this strategy would apply to ALL Lange models. It would apply only to very few. |
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14 March 2021, 03:43 AM | #39 | |
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14 March 2021, 03:52 AM | #40 | |
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I'm such a customer. I bought my first ALS from the boutique instead of going through an AD or preowned to be put on the Odysseus request list. And from what I'm told the waitlist has gotten longer recently - it's now 18-24months. I've never played the waitlist games with PP/AP/Rolex before because the entire waitlist was just whatever the SA or boutique manager felt like. At least with ALS HQ actually approves who gets on the waitlist, they give you a rough timeframe, and you get a confirmation email. |
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14 March 2021, 03:59 AM | #41 | |
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14 March 2021, 04:01 AM | #42 | |
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I'm curious, do you think you'll keep that first Lange piece? Or are you likely to sell it once you get the steel Datomatic? Also, more generally, I appreciate your thoughtful posts. |
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14 March 2021, 04:24 AM | #43 |
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Thank you for sharing this info.
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14 March 2021, 04:40 AM | #44 | |
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Lange Sales/Distribution Change – Pre-Sale Pieces and Application Pieces
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I would fully support this type of practice as long as it is indeed limited to only very select models. As of now, there is only one application piece and that’s the SS Odysseus. So I’d say they’re starting in the right place. EDIT: Limited Numbers are also application pieces, my bad. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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14 March 2021, 04:53 AM | #45 | |
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I verified this with my AD who I trust fully. The only non-limited application piece is the SS Odysseus. All numbered editions fall into this group as well, but I don’t know how many of those are still in production or how many current models are limited numbers. I just assume I can’t afford limited edition Langes. Everything else over $50k and non-limited you may (or may not) have to wait for depending on supply/demand. It seems that wait is capped at 6 months, but I don’t know that. I’d assume if the AD has an 1815/Datograph/Zeitwerk on display, it’s for sale and there is no wait. Or, at least I hope that is how it works out... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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14 March 2021, 05:01 AM | #46 |
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I’m referring to a presale piece. If it’s readily available in the boutique will a customer still need to jump through hoops to get it or is the presale process only if it’s not at the boutique or AD at the time?
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14 March 2021, 05:26 AM | #47 |
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I also wonder whether this will have an impact on secondary market. As stated previously, I see prices for the sought after pieces appreciating quite quickly. However, you can still get a Lange 1 Darth below retail of the current line, which is hard to understand.
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14 March 2021, 05:27 AM | #48 |
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Thanks for sharing the information. I thought the line was drawn between 50K and above. I think everyone knew and assumed Odysseus and LE are application only pieces, why bother with this change announcement? Doesn't make sense to me.
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14 March 2021, 06:22 AM | #49 | |
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CFR, this is a pretty interesting model. In theory would work. For the application pieces...I want to understand the nuance of the collector acquired their pieces preowned or must have a purchase history and purchased new whether it was Ad at discount or boutique at msrp. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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14 March 2021, 07:06 AM | #50 | |
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My story is I decided I was going to get a 1815 chronograph so walked into a boutique to see which reference I liked most with the intention of later buying through a grey as the retail price then was about $10k above market. I had no clue about the Odysseus other than the internet thought it was ugly. After the boutique showed me a display Odysseus, which completely won me over, and explained how the waitlist with ALS worked I agreed to buy a 414.028 from them and apply for the waitlist. It's a waiting game for me now and I hope to get mine by the end of the year. |
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14 March 2021, 08:52 AM | #51 |
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I heard all chronograph movements will be application pieces
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14 March 2021, 09:41 AM | #52 | |
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I wonder if Lange won't find themselves in the position of having to have a SS watch in production at all times in order to maintain sales of their PM models? Not that that's a problem. And if the wait time for the Odysseus is 2 years, how many people will be willing to spend $50K now in order to get on the list for their payday in 2023? |
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14 March 2021, 11:52 AM | #53 | ||||
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Quote:
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Re "Why bother with the change announcement?" Lange didn't formally announce anything, as far as I know. There's no official statement that I've seen. I think it's just a few collectors (like me) who heard rumblings, then talked with their contacts in the Lange world (Lange corporate staff, ADs, boutiques, etc.) to get additional info, and then informed the community on forums like this and on social media. I think the most visible change, based upon what I was told, will be the absence of pre-sale pieces (Zeitwerks, Datos, 1815 Chronos, etc.) from ADs' display cases. I'm not seeing any major changes other than that, unless I'm missing something. Quote:
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14 March 2021, 08:22 PM | #54 |
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Will AD still provide discount on regular in-line models such as Lange1 and 1815 updown?
As long as they’re continuing to give 20-25% from MSRP, the seconday market will remain the same. |
14 March 2021, 11:54 PM | #55 |
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I just purchased the new timezone 1 and will receive it this week. I currently own a Datograph up/down, perpetual rattrapante in platinum, Double split in platinum.
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16 March 2021, 03:34 AM | #56 |
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I thought that level of discounting was in the past, maybe 10 to 15% now? For the presale pieces, I doubt they will be able to discount as much as they now need to be ordered.
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16 March 2021, 05:55 AM | #57 | |
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I would love to hear from a customer trying to operate in this new model, but my expectation is there won't be any discount on the Dato, Zeitwerk, or 1815 Chronograph (or any other presale pieces). Since Lange is going to know now exactly where the demand is, they could simply route everything to the boutiques which have been trying to get rid of discounting now for the past couple of years.
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24 March 2021, 05:12 AM | #58 | |
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24 March 2021, 09:12 AM | #59 |
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24 March 2021, 05:53 PM | #60 | |
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Seems also like the secondary market is completely dried out or asking crazy prices for Datos, Chronos and hot Lange 1s (a 101.001 is offered for € 80k for example). Still not sure if all those pieces landed at serious collectors or if it's just a game of the larger greys to pumping up prices.... |
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