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Old 23 February 2020, 04:33 AM   #1
Acquisition40
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5970P popularity during production

How popular was the 5970P while it was produced and available at ADs?

Was it like the 5270P in that it is considered a special/beautiful piece by many, but not selling aggressively? Or was it super popular and desirable when in production?

Anyone here with experience buying a 5970P new from an AD?
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Old 23 February 2020, 04:57 AM   #2
zahain
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5970P popularity during production

Way different to a 5270p. Most ordered sold very quickly and if there were any left un allocated sold instantly after being discontinued (dont think there were really any sitting). The application pieces now really only apply to enamel worldtime, minuet repeaters, tourbillion and the grandmaster chime. Split seconds & PCC are depending on region, just supplied to AD’s as normal

I think the 5270p would sell better if it was a true salmon colour as when i saw it, looked more golden. The blackened gold numerals & hands probably play some part also as its more sporty than traditional

My AD received 2-3 5270p’s so far so you can assume there will be approximately around 1,000 of them if not more. 5970p is around the 500 mark so Patek these days have been overproducing on the grand comps


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Old 23 February 2020, 06:31 AM   #3
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Patek had limited number of ebauches from Lemania that they could use to produce the 5970, 5070, 5004, etc. So production numbers were limited. After Patek designed their 100% in-house chrono movement, their production numbers ramped up for the 5270, 5170 and 5204.

At the time of 5970P, they were quite in demand, partly due to low supply and it was produced for only a short time period. The previous 3970P used the same movement as the 5970P, but in a smaller case. It was produced for a longer time period as well.
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Old 23 February 2020, 07:11 AM   #4
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Do you guys/ladies think that the 5270P will sell out immediately when they announce their discontinuation?
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Old 23 February 2020, 08:17 AM   #5
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Do you guys/ladies think that the 5270P will sell out immediately when they announce their discontinuation?
Probably not. Introduced in 2018 and has not been declared to be discontinued for 2020 so at the minimum 3 yr production. Great for value for a platinum modern PCC with a very nice case design that's larger than the 5970 which is more like a 39mm on the wrist.
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Old 23 February 2020, 10:06 AM   #6
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5270 has never ever really sold well. And market values for it appear to be typically worse than other >$100k Patek grand complications.
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Old 23 February 2020, 11:04 AM   #7
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What is the going grey market price for a 5270p in the US? Swiss tax free is 155 so presumably well below 150 will be possible in due course?
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Old 23 February 2020, 01:07 PM   #8
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What is the going grey market price for a 5270p in the US? Swiss tax free is 155 so presumably well below 150 will be possible in due course?


I saw a listing around that from watches of Mayfair I think in HK?

The 5270/1R going for cheap too.


Much like the modern Daytona it’s hard to ignore the sub dials not sitting at 9-3.

I have a picture of a 2499 in my home office and my wife goes look there’s daddy’s watch. I said yes mommy I’ll take one for my birthday. Get your checkbook.

Hard to ignore how much better their designs get the further back you go.
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Old 23 February 2020, 01:30 PM   #9
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Thanks yes in the grey market for sure but I was asking from an AD perspective.

Agree with your comments on designs completely.
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Originally Posted by GB-man View Post
I saw a listing around that from watches of Mayfair I think in HK?

The 5270/1R going for cheap too.


Much like the modern Daytona it’s hard to ignore the sub dials not sitting at 9-3.

I have a picture of a 2499 in my home office and my wife goes look there’s daddy’s watch. I said yes mommy I’ll take one for my birthday. Get your checkbook.

Hard to ignore how much better their designs get the further back you go.
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Old 23 February 2020, 02:38 PM   #10
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Can't afford either but if I can, surely the 5270p. It's one of the very few watches that felt and looked special when I handled it. A truly sublime timepiece.
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Old 23 February 2020, 03:16 PM   #11
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5970s were launched during a time where dress watches were still popular and before the big SS Sports watch hype. 5270s long term value remain to be seen although I heard they are selling poorly, both retail and on grey market .Something not so right if one can see a 5270P on display at PP ADs.
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Old 23 February 2020, 10:36 PM   #12
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Much like the modern Daytona it’s hard to ignore the sub dials not sitting at 9-3.

Hard to ignore how much better their designs get the further back you go.

Agree with the comments. That’s why the Zenith Daytonas or older look more balanced than the modern ones.
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Old 23 February 2020, 11:11 PM   #13
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Something not so right if one can see a 5270P on display at PP ADs.
Why would you say that, surely it should be the aim of Patek for all standard production pieces to be in the windows of at least some AD’s.
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Old 23 February 2020, 11:45 PM   #14
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I don't see anything wrong with it being in a case. Thats like saying no Mercedes dealer should ever have an s63 in the showroom. This is pateks flagship grand comp but it's not some obscure rarity.
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Old 24 February 2020, 12:43 AM   #15
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Whole different market back then during the 5970 production. These were the grails back then. SS sports were just sitting unsold. The platinum reference was probably completely pre-sold. The yellow gold 5970 is the most rare of the metals.
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Old 24 February 2020, 12:47 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by benlee View Post
5970s were launched during a time where dress watches were still popular and before the big SS Sports watch hype. 5270s long term value remain to be seen although I heard they are selling poorly, both retail and on grey market .Something not so right if one can see a 5270P on display at PP ADs.
What is not right is the hard numbers, unfortunately. Retail on the 5270P is what 197K? Add sales tax to that and your at 215 to 218. Used I see one at 167K online now. The selling company probably owns that watch at 140K tops which is the real value. Just not so many folks these days willing to take a 60K plus hit out the door.
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Old 24 February 2020, 02:43 PM   #17
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I think the price is always a thing that we should not forget...... but only when its in production.
The problem with the 5270P is, that its very difficut to make photos where you can see how beautiful that piece is. I think its the same thing as with the 5170P, during it was in production nobody want that piece, now it will be sold soon over the list price because its one of the most beautiful chronographs.
The 5270P is different but one of the most interesting calendars from Patek.
Longer you have it on the wrist more you like it, i never believe... but that's true.
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Old 24 February 2020, 08:27 PM   #18
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I think that the comparative (financial) underperformance of the 5270 VS 5970 has less to do with modern tastes changing or the beauty of the respective pieces.
It's to do with over production.
They've built too many PCC's. They were never in the window. They should never be in the window. They were grails. They should still be grails.

As an owner of a 5070 and a 5170, I can categorically tell you, the new pieces are in many cases sensationally beautiful (especially the 5170p) with a movement to match.

But if you build orders of magnitude more then they won't be as special.

An F355 in 1997 was a mind blowing sight in London. 488's are left out on the street all year round with barely a glance.
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Old 24 February 2020, 09:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2 View Post
I think that the comparative (financial) underperformance of the 5270 VS 5970 has less to do with modern tastes changing or the beauty of the respective pieces.
It's to do with over production.
They've built too many PCC's. They were never in the window. They should never be in the window. They were grails. They should still be grails.

As an owner of a 5070 and a 5170, I can categorically tell you, the new pieces are in many cases sensationally beautiful (especially the 5170p) with a movement to match.

But if you build orders of magnitude more then they won't be as special.

An F355 in 1997 was a mind blowing sight in London. 488's are left out on the street all year round with barely a glance.
Totally agree. Because Patek have invested so much in the R&D for the new fully in house movements, then production numbers have to multiply to justify that investment. I think they have created a major problem for themselves, and even short production runs (for some variants of the 5170, 5270 and 5204) have not saved secondary market pain. As an owner of all of these pieces it pains me to see this - even though they were never bought as investments, you still want to see reasonable value retention.
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Old 24 February 2020, 11:37 PM   #20
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Problem with the P is the G.
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Old 24 February 2020, 11:50 PM   #21
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Totally agree. Because Patek have invested so much in the R&D for the new fully in house movements, then production numbers have to multiply to justify that investment. I think they have created a major problem for themselves, and even short production runs (for some variants of the 5170, 5270 and 5204) have not saved secondary market pain. As an owner of all of these pieces it pains me to see this - even though they were never bought as investments, you still want to see reasonable value retention.


I secretly wish that the appearance of the abundance was due to no interest, not over production... I love the 5270 series. The world isn’t ready for it yet. Haha
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Old 25 February 2020, 12:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
I think the price is always a thing that we should not forget...... but only when its in production.
The problem with the 5270P is, that its very difficut to make photos where you can see how beautiful that piece is. I think its the same thing as with the 5170P, during it was in production nobody want that piece, now it will be sold soon over the list price because its one of the most beautiful chronographs.
The 5270P is different but one of the most interesting calendars from Patek.
Longer you have it on the wrist more you like it, i never believe... but that's true.
Is this true / what’s mkt value of 5170p? I see low 80s?
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Old 25 February 2020, 12:15 AM   #23
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Tim just reviewed one for Watchbox this morning. Nice watch, I don't know what Tim is asking but is probably the market price.
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Old 25 February 2020, 12:42 AM   #24
Hermann
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Quote:
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Is this true / what’s mkt value of 5170p? I see low 80s?
In Euro it’s around 80k+
In USD it’s around 90k+

The thing is when it was in production you was able to pick it up for 65k€ and it was on Stock.
Now the most available pieces are all over 80k€
Actually it’s nearly a year discounted and the price is still climbing.... all other hyped watches loose a lot, in the last 5 month.

I think the 5270P with the salomon dial is a typical PP, but it’s very very heavy to make correct photos how the watch looks in real.
It’s the same thing like with the 5170P.... 2018 ... (90% from the photos where )
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Old 28 February 2020, 02:42 AM   #25
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Production for Patek 5970P was limited and most sort after because that was the last with the Lemenia movement. Then it was replaced with Patek’s own movement in Patek 5270P now with the salmon dial. Like Rolex’ Daytona withe the zenith movement it is more sort after than Rolex‘S own movement in the current model.
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