What differentiates the current state of Rolex vs. Panerai's from 5-7 years ago?

[904VT]

Originally Posted by AK797

I knew by mid 2017 that Rolex would not change supply or prices after the Brexit bump in the UK changed the market here entirely and they did almost nothing, so unless a black swan flew in or Social Media got banned I didn't see anything changing, but the speed at which prices are moving up this year is pretty alarming.

Exactly right. IMO Jan 2015 unpegging of the Swiss Franc from the Euro really started all the craziness. And with Rolex once they left the UK market in shambles we knew this Rolex mess was here to stay. Mix in the changes in Chinese gifting laws and it's been a disaster.



https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...h-gifts-2016-2

[BLNR Nairobi]

Originally Posted by sinkholeninja

Everyone should read this about Panerai:

"It appears that for Bonati Officine Panerai was somehow a joke. He was heard saying that the Panerai watch was “un orologio del cazzo”, a shit watch (cazzo = dick). He even had three watches made with the inscription “Cazzomir” and hour markers with the shape of dicks to mock the watch (as seen in the photo below)."

https://perezcope.com/2018/02/15/pam...-of-the-fiddy/

Great read. Thank you

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by donq

Panerai basically make two watches, the big square case pocket watch looking one, and the one with the weird crown lock thing.

They are pretty limited with what they can do, and with who will buy.

They also engage in some pretty deceptive marketing, which can’t help matters any.

rolex basically makes one... lets be honest the difference in a DJ, DD, Sub, Sea Dweller, Yachtmaster, GMT II etc , etc, etc as far as a case is pretty small.


the number of three hand and a date watches in similar looking cases Rolex makes is astounding. seriously

Plus they almost all come on the same bracelet... across the entire range. At least with PAM they come on many strap options and colors

[BLNR Nairobi]

Originally Posted by donq

Comparing Rolex and Panerai is like comparing Mercedes Benz and Hummer.

Exactly. So true, in more ways than one .

[donq]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

rolex basically makes one... lets be honest the difference in a DJ, DD, Sub, Sea Dweller, Yachtmaster, GMT II etc , etc, etc as far as a case is pretty small.


the number of three hand and a date watches in similar looking cases Rolex makes is astounding. seriously

Plus they almost all come on the same bracelet... across the entire range. At least with PAM they come on many strap options and colors

Yeah.........no.

Rolex has more models just in the Cellini line than Panerai makes altogether.

It is cool to change straps around, but it's nothing you can't do on a Rolex too.

A different color strap doesn't make it a different watch.

In all fairness, I did leave one out, the one with the ugly crown lock thing and the rotating bezel.

I guess that makes three.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by brucethemanlee

These things come in waves. Rolex will come down in time but not like Panerai as the base of consumers for Rolex is much larger

Panerai was never my thing as I am Rolex person but recently picked up PAM911 to add collection. Yes they are big but it still fits my 6.75 wrist nicely and is nice change from Rolex





Here's comparison to my Daytona




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That’s a sexy PAM!

[brucethemanlee]

Originally Posted by jrs146

That’s a sexy PAM!

Thanks!!

I really like my green dial Luminor.

I recently put it on a camo strap





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[mr_gray]

what a fantastic thread!

[mgsooner]

I can only speak from personal experience and be brutally honest: I’ve never seen a Panerai I would own. The crown guard mechanism has always looked ridiculous to me and for those that don’t have it I don’t like the case shape. I am not a huge fan of the ceramic bezel on the six digit Rolex sports models but I would take any of them every day of the week over any watch in Panerai’s catalogue.

[Uppersouth]

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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by donq

Yeah.........no.

Rolex has more models just in the Cellini line than Panerai makes altogether.

It is cool to change straps around, but it's nothing you can't do on a Rolex too.

A different color strap doesn't make it a different watch.

In all fairness, I did leave one out, the one with the ugly crown lock thing and the rotating bezel.

I guess that makes three.

the oyster case is almost the same on every watch. that isn't in debate. Take the cellini line out since especially here its an afterthought.

Tell me what's fundamentally different between a YM, Sub, SD43, DSSD, GMTII, DJ case? Not much

People act like there is a ton of variety in Rolex. There isn't unless you count bezel colors, a GMT hand, making an almost identical case different sizes, or dial colors. Its pretty much a tweak of the same watch over and over again. There isn't anything wrong with that, but i find them to be just as similar as AP, or the Panerai as far as being all pretty similar to the rest of them. At least with AP and Panerai you get similar watches with the option of different complications some of which are very complicated. Rolex is time and date, time and date, time and date and day, time only, chrono, and one AC, and a YMII

the difference is AP puts all the RO's in one product category, Panerai uses basically 3 for everything, and Rolex makes a different product category for every variation, but that doesnt make them fundamentally different watches.

[donq]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

the oyster case is almost the same on every watch. that isn't in debate. Take the cellini line out since especially here its an afterthought.

Tell me what's fundamentally different between a YM, Sub, SD43, DSSD, GMTII, DJ case? Not much

People act like there is a ton of variety in Rolex. There isn't unless you count bezel colors, a GMT hand, making an almost identical case different sizes, or dial colors. Its pretty much a tweak of the same watch over and over again. There isn't anything wrong with that, but i find them to be just as similar as AP, or the Panerai as far as being all pretty similar to the rest of them. At least with AP and Panerai you get similar watches with the option of different complications some of which are very complicated. Rolex is time and date, time and date, time and date and day, time only, chrono, and one AC, and a YMII

the difference is AP puts all the RO's in one product category, Panerai uses basically 3 for everything, and Rolex makes a different product category for every variation, but that doesnt make them fundamentally different watches.

You do know the original Radiomir case was made by...
You guessed it! Rolex.

I guess they can make a different case...

[Bostonbert]

Originally Posted by Uppersouth

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Rolex has a long way to go to fall as low as Panerai, however the fact that someone is asking the question shows that Rolex is headed in a potentially dangerous path. It’s becoming a speculator’s brand. Speculators have destroyed bigger things than Rolex before, so I would disagree that Rolex’s size will protect them, or that their conservative design shields them from a similar downfall as Panerai. Safe stuffing speculators see their Rolex watches as commodities (not as their favorite shiny trinket). Rolex needs to get control over this situation before it drives real buyers away. In addition, this shift towards the grey market opens the door to fraudulent merchants....and that makes consumers nervous (speculators less because they think they can spot fakes...I’m not so sure this confidence is justified in these difficult times).

[pepsiretail]

Originally Posted by donq

You do know the original Radiomir case was made by...
You guessed it! Rolex.

I guess they can make a different case...

Yes, and when Panerai reintroduced the Radiomir they made it 40mm in gold with a Zenith Elite inside. Only 700 ever made in this white gold case and they have never made a 40mm Radiomir since.

[donq]

Originally Posted by pepsiretail

Yes, and when Panerai reintroduced the Radiomir they made it 40mm in gold with a Zenith Elite inside. Only 700 ever made in this white gold case and they have never made a 40mm Radiomir since.

Well now you’re just showing off!

Beautiful watch by the way.

[pepsiretail]

Originally Posted by donq

Well now you’re just showing off!

Beautiful watch by the way.

Thank you

[cwilson13]

Originally Posted by pepsiretail

Yes, and when Panerai reintroduced the Radiomir they made it 40mm in gold with a Zenith Elite inside. Only 700 ever made in this white gold case and they have never made a 40mm Radiomir since.

That is one of the best PAMs (IMHO).

[ricardoo]

Honda is a great car but when you look generally , can you compare it with a Mercedes-Benz or a BMW ?

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by ricardoo

Honda is a great car but when you look generally , can you compare it with a Mercedes-Benz or a BMW ?

Terrible comparison. If a Rolex is a Mercedes pr BMW a Panerai is a Lexus or Infiniti.

[Seibei]

To me Panerai makes boring watches that are similar to Chinese offerings that can be had for about $100. I never saw the appeal and I still don't see it.

[Seibei]

Originally Posted by MSchott

Terrible comparison. If a Rolex is a Mercedes pr BMW a Panerai is a Lexus or Infiniti.

If I thought Rolex quality was on par with Mercedes I would not have touched Rolex with a 10 foot pole. Please do not insult Rolex with this kind of comparison.

[Vince KSA]

Originally Posted by BLNR Nairobi

That is achingly beautiful.

Thanks Tony, I have zero regrets adding a Pan to my collection, it's a beautiful watch, gets lots of positive comments and it gets a lot of wrist time.

[Boutella]

There is so much pain with trying to sell Panerai these days. The prices are at the lowest of lows.

[bonovox]

Panerai had and still has a lot of problems...too many LE's, making watches over and over again - example = Cali dial, when loyalists/collectors snapped up the 249 in 2006, that was a special watch, but then again and again they mass marketed non LE's (424 cali dial) of the same concept. They said they wouldn't touch older designs and did time and again. The 317 movement debacle didn't help matters and as a result, by 2014/2015, they lost a large amount of their base, and now their new pieces are so expensive, they are further alienating that base and struggling to find new enthusiasts because in that price range, one can buy a lot. It's a mess to this day and you can see it - if all they can do is change the color of the dial, their appeal is limited.

None of this is going on with Rolex. Rolex is supply/demand in a global economy that has picked up steam over the years. It will change in the future, but no one can predict how. Demand for Rolex is very different than demand for any other watch brand.

Panerai lost its way. That's not going to happen with Rolex.

[pepsiretail]

Originally Posted by cwilson13

That is one of the best PAMs (IMHO).

That is very generous of you, thanks

The wrist feel of this slim little gem is incredible.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Seibei

If I thought Rolex quality was on par with Mercedes I would not have touched Rolex with a 10 foot pole. Please do not insult Rolex with this kind of comparison.

Perception and prestige.

[Bostonbert]

Originally Posted by bonovox

Panerai had and still has a lot of problems...too many LE's, making watches over and over again - example = Cali dial, when loyalists/collectors snapped up the 249 in 2006, that was a special watch, but then again and again they mass marketed non LE's (424 cali dial) of the same concept. They said they wouldn't touch older designs and did time and again. The 317 movement debacle didn't help matters and as a result, by 2014/2015, they lost a large amount of their base, and now their new pieces are so expensive, they are further alienating that base and struggling to find new enthusiasts because in that price range, one can buy a lot. It's a mess to this day and you can see it - if all they can do is change the color of the dial, their appeal is limited.

None of this is going on with Rolex. Rolex is supply/demand in a global economy that has picked up steam over the years. It will change in the future, but no one can predict how. Demand for Rolex is very different than demand for any other watch brand.

Panerai lost its way. That's not going to happen with Rolex.

“Lost a large amount of their base” that’s the bottom line, and the mechanism through which this occurs is speculators displacing consumers at ADs. Speculators don’t care about what’s in the watch, the appearance of the watch, it’s size, etc.. it’s only about money and resale for them. When they run out of consumers (those that care about the movement, size, etc...) by having driven them away, then the bubble bursts.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by ricardoo

Honda is a great car but when you look generally , can you compare it with a Mercedes-Benz or a BMW ?

If your car starting is more important than how cool you look? Absolutely.

[17noir]

Originally Posted by Krash

I think it’s a stretch to say Rolex is in the same boat as Panerai was. Actually, it’s quite ridiculous.

You’re over-thinking and over-analyzing it.

Rolex is significantly more established. It’s one of the most recognizable, most valuable brands on the planet. Not just in the watch industry, but it’s right up there with Apple, Google, Coke...

Panerai is a niche brand. Only watch enthusiasts know about it. You can’t compare the 2.


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Exactly my thoughts.

[Seibei]

Originally Posted by MSchott

Perception and prestige.

Mercedes is a mediocre car, at least as far as reliability is concerned and Rolex does not deserve to be put in the same category as Mercedes. Any perception that Mercedes makes high quality cars is an ignorant one.

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100