Range Rover Issues

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

913

[steve099]

I owned a 2012 RRS for 4 years. Twin turbo diesel. The only issue I had in that time was the pump for the air suspension went, caused by aussie heat and it was replaced with a new part number requiring a sw update.

I miss that truck on the regular so don't understand people ripping into the brand since TATA took it over and revitalized it.

Tried to move into a RR Vogue but it was just too big for Sydney driving, car parks are just too tight for my nerves. Damn nice ride all the same.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by steve099

I owned a 2012 RRS for 4 years. Twin turbo diesel. The only issue I had in that time was the pump for the air suspension went, caused by aussie heat and it was replaced with a new part number requiring a sw update.

I miss that truck on the regular so don't understand people ripping into the brand since TATA took it over and revitalized it.

Tried to move into a RR Vogue but it was just too big for Sydney driving, car parks are just too tight for my nerves. Damn nice ride all the same.

im really not ripping it. a bit frustrated with the oil checking process but yes, there are a lot of actual angry RR posts around here

I said it before, but i would still buy it again today six months later despite a couple of issues

[Fat_ninja]

I have to check the oil in the car? Don’t they do that for u at service?

[srleadjb]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

curious... does it ever make sense to lease and then buy after the lease ends, financially vs just buying it to begin with? Or is the love of the car driving that? emotions vs financial. No idea. If i leased i would probably get a different car after it was up

I really do love my RR though. Part of why i just bought it initially as i would end up keeping it anyway. Would still buy it again today too

We usually don’t keep cars long, which is typically why we lease. This time, my wife fell in love with the car so that’s why it’s a consideration.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

I have to check the oil in the car? Don’t they do that for u at service?

thats what they keep telling me.... maybe thats just how its supposed to be now. I haven't owned a car for 8 years while in London. and the last new car i bought was a 2008 before i moved.

So I guess a lot has changed if that is the new expectation. Just drive it for a year and let them take care of everything. No owner checks required... ever

people acting like im some lunatic for wanting to know the oil level is a new one for sure as well as their confusion that i would want to know

[Carry The Interest]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

curious... does it ever make sense to lease and then buy after the lease ends, financially vs just buying it to begin with? Or is the love of the car driving that? emotions vs financial. No idea. If i leased i would probably get a different car after it was up

I really do love my RR though. Part of why i just bought it initially as i would end up keeping it anyway. Would still buy it again today too

I am not familiar with the particulars of RR leases, i.e., how aggressive they are on lease payments with regards to the money factor and ultimate residual value. Generally speaking though, it usually does not make sense buy the car once your lease is up at the contracted price. There are a variety of tricks involved here, but high level you're essentially letting them make additional margin on you with the ultimate sale of the car which you can reduce more with a purchase upfront. This can sometimes make sense if your over on miles and you consider those extra payments you'll owe vs. buying the car outright and selling it yourself at a marketing clearing price (not the norm).

You can make the comparison math here as complex as you want. For instance, the buying option can become more/less attractive depending on financing rates and your expected performance of deploying your cash elsewhere (if you choose not to pay all in cash upfront).

On a side note - glad you were able to get some piece of mind with the oil levels and how to check it yourself going forward. I remember when I got my first BMW I was so confused by a similar issue where there is no dipstick and you can only check electronically. Thankfully the BMW software isn't as confusing/misleading!

Btw - looking forward to the launch of the new Defender next year!

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Carry The Interest

I am not familiar with the particulars of RR leases, i.e., how aggressive they are on lease payments with regards to the money factor and ultimate residual value. Generally speaking though, it usually does not make sense buy the car once your lease is up at the contracted price. There are a variety of tricks involved here, but high level you're essentially letting them make additional margin on you with the ultimate sale of the car which you can reduce more with a purchase upfront.

You can make the comparison math here as complex as you want. For instance, the buying option can become more/less attractive depending on financing rates and your expected performance of deploying your cash elsewhere (if you choose not to pay all in cash upfront).

On a side note - glad you were able to get some piece of mind with the oil levels and how to check it yourself going forward. I remember when I got my first BMW I was so confused by a similar issue where there is no dipstick and you can only check electronically. Thankfully the BMW software isn't as confusing/misleading!

Btw - looking forward to the launch of the new Defender next year!

Buy it at the end of the lease for less than the residual value. Plain and simple, it’s a used car like any other, and it’s value is subject to negotiation. I’ve heard many people on forums debate whether or not it’s possible to negotiate....I’ve worked for GMAC and you definitely can. Lenders are not a car lot and do not want the car back.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Carry The Interest

I am not familiar with the particulars of RR leases, i.e., how aggressive they are on lease payments with regards to the money factor and ultimate residual value. Generally speaking though, it usually does not make sense buy the car once your lease is up at the contracted price. There are a variety of tricks involved here, but high level you're essentially letting them make additional margin on you with the ultimate sale of the car which you can reduce more with a purchase upfront. This can sometimes make sense if your over on miles and you consider those extra payments you'll owe vs. buying the car outright and selling it yourself at a marketing clearing price (not the norm).

You can make the comparison math here as complex as you want. For instance, the buying option can become more/less attractive depending on financing rates and your expected performance of deploying your cash elsewhere (if you choose not to pay all in cash upfront).

On a side note - glad you were able to get some piece of mind with the oil levels and how to check it yourself going forward. I remember when I got my first BMW I was so confused by a similar issue where there is no dipstick and you can only check electronically. Thankfully the BMW software isn't as confusing/misleading!

Btw - looking forward to the launch of the new Defender next year!

im not... thats trouble for me

Ive heard bits and pieces about it but i have purposely not tried to look into it too much.

[timepieceluvr]

I hope you end up having a different experience but my personal journey with two and the experience of our friends tells me that RR’s are great looking but seem to have a homing device for the service department.

I just can’t tolerate dropping off the car, picking up a loaner, going back to get it etc. Its just time I don’t have or won’t waste.

The best thing that ever happened was the invention of synthetic oil that allows you to go 10K between changes.



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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by timepieceluvr

I hope you end up having a different experience but my personal journey with two and the experience of our friends tells me that RR’s are great looking but seem to have a homing device for the service department.

I just can’t tolerate dropping off the car, picking up a loaner, going back to get it etc. Its just time I don’t have or won’t waste.

The best thing that ever happened was the invention of synthetic oil that allows you to go 10K between changes.



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they keep telling me 16k for the oil change.

Im nitpicking but for some reason its the little stuff that annoys me. For example a new nav map just came out. OK great. My car keeps telling me to go to landrover.com/navigation to download it. Except thats not the website. Is it the Incontrol website maybe? nope


Customer service directed me to Landrover.here.com Never heard of it. Turns out its the same log in as incontrol but an entirely different website. Then you can download it on a usb and install it. since its a major update its not possible over in car wifi. Thats fine, but it would be nice to know where you go to get it without having to call support.


I could just be an idiot too. entirely possible

Plus im now the guy who's customer file shows i couldn't use car play, i couldn't work the navigation, and i couldn't check the oil... so i know for sure they think im a total moron since thats the total of my service issues

[timepieceluvr]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

they keep telling me 16k for the oil change.

Im nitpicking but for some reason its the little stuff that annoys me. For example a new nav map just came out. OK great. My car keeps telling me to go to landrover.com/navigation to download it. Except thats not the website. Is it the Incontrol website maybe? nope


Customer service directed me to Landrover.here.com Never heard of it. Turns out its the same log in as incontrol but an entirely different website. Then you can download it on a usb and install it. since its a major update its not possible over in car wifi. Thats fine, but it would be nice to know where you go to get it without having to call support.


I could just be an idiot too. entirely possible

Also, I updated my address in incontrol when i moved. Then came all the re giving all my info on my phone marathon over the past few days. CS still has the old address, phone numbers, etc. So they had to update it. Incontrol CS had to update it too. So did both dealerships i use when i called them. No one talks to anyone so spending the first 5 minutes of every call updating my info seems weird to me

Plus im now the guy who's customer file shows i couldn't use car play, i couldn't work the navigation, and i couldn't check the oil... so i know for sure they think im a total moron since thats the total of my service issues

LOL, I’m sure they think we’re all morons. These cars today have so much going on it’s impossible to get it all. My S Class has something like 50 colors of interior lights, voice control and a automatic air freshener. WTH?! I love the tech too but I must admit I call into MBrace and have them download the destination into the nav because it’s a pain in the ass to do it myself. 6 months from now I hope you look back and the issues are a distant memory.


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[Zakalwe]

As a car enthusiast I vowed never to buy a Chelsea Tractor. I was of course a fool who never considered that one day a woman might have something to say about it. Therefore a Range, Disco and F-Pace are all on my radar.

So Tyler, weird electronic-dipstick-induced frustrations aside, what's the car like purely from a functionality perspective? I'm thinking specifically space in the back for a couple of ISOFIX seats plus boot space for luggage.

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by RW16610

Man, that sounds like a hassle. No dispstick is the unfortunate reality of the present. My BMW is the same way but luckily once it warms up I'm easily able to check the oil level.

I think it can also be checked with the right diagnostic scanner. I'm going on a long drive soon too and little things like this and my electronic water pump are on my mind.

My M has that feature as well not sure how I feel about EVERYTHING being controlled by the computer!! - I know car has to be in neutral (mine is a 6sp) and has to be running at idle (won’t work fight at startup).


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

As a car enthusiast I vowed never to buy a Chelsea Tractor. I was of course a fool who never considered that one day a woman might have something to say about it. Therefore a Range, Disco and F-Pace are all on my radar.

So Tyler, weird electronic-dipstick-induced frustrations aside, what's the car like purely from a functionality perspective? I'm thinking specifically space in the back for a couple of ISOFIX seats plus boot space for luggage.

driving is excellent. overall i am very happy. I just get annoyed because at this price level it should be all about the details. Kind of like watches.


I have 3 car seats in the back. They fit fine. There is no anchors for the middle seat though which sucks as thats the only place the rear facing car seat fits (i have the rear infotainment screens coming out of the back driver and passenger seats (so my bad on that choice in the short term). Once all 3 seats face forward you can put them anywhere. doesnt solve the only two anchors though so one will always utilize the seatbelt as an anchor


Boot space is more than sufficient. IMO you need loadspace rails and the movable bar though because unless you want to crawl into the trunk all the time you want to keep the luggage toward the rear not toward the passenger compartment. Im 6'5 and unless i want to lower the car down via the air suspension i cant easily get to the back of the boot without getting inside.

the driving aids are superb. I use the lane monitoring all the time. It actively corrects steering (sort of a rumble on the wheel and a slight tweak back onto your lane if you drift)... HUD is awesome, Cameras, the proximity sensors when at low speed, etc.

Parking aid (self parking) sucks as its super slow to find a space and you have to approach perfectly so i have only had the car park itself once.However i assume once you get the hang of it then its awesome. London in paticular you have to parallel park all the time and in small spots. I dont really have to parallel in houston hardly ever.

[77T]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

UPDATE: This is how you do it for all RR owners


Service advisor said they dont want customers checking so it usually doesnt work following the instructions in the manual . This is only after i raised hell about getting it done and they felt bad i spent all day following instructions that dont work. the 800 number, the service department, and the SA all told me "they dont want customers to know" how weird is that? so clearly its communicated widely that they dont want people to check their oil. WEIRDEST thing i have ever heard (second only to the story of the guy who called technical support, incontrol support, the service department, then a service advisor to check the oil, and the service manager was also involved)

During the conversation, the SA said "its a Range Rover" or "not on a Range Rover" or something to that effect when i asked why dont people want to know if they have enough oil as i cant be the only person to ask. I responded "thats exactly why i want to know" he didn't get the joke.

Here is how to do it which IS NOT in the manual

1. Open the hood
2. Open the driver door
3. push start button, but dont start car (ie dont step on the breaks)
5. Clear warnings (door open, hood open by clicking "OK" on each alarm)
4. hit "cancel" twice
5. Go to vehicle settings
6. check oil


Guess what, it works... no issues

Vs. What the manual states:

I know I’m late to the rant...

And as much as I hate to pour cold water on your rant...

Paying particular attention to the steps after you’ve warmed up the vehicle. It does state to turn on the ignition but do not start the car...

Is it only the extra step of clearing alarms?

...or am I missing something?


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by RHIII

My M has that feature as well not sure how I feel about EVERYTHING being controlled by the computer!! - I know car has to be in neutral (mine is a 6sp) and has to be running at idle (won’t work fight at startup).


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thats also a problem if you think about it. There is no standard process. IE you car has to be in neutral, mine doesnt.

With all this tech you would hope that people would kind of develop a standard and not every car doing something different as then once you add the technology on top it gets confusing. If the steps were more standard it would help

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 77T

I know I’m late to the rant...

And as much as I hate to pour cold water on your rant...

Paying particular attention to the steps after you’ve warmed up the vehicle. It does state to turn on the ignition but do not start the car...

Is it only the extra step of clearing alarms?

...or am I missing something?


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yeah my initial steps were turn car ON... dont start it. still didn't work. It did take me several attempts first to catch that differentiation though

not to be a conspiracy theorist but it cant be a coincidence that Oil is also the only fluid level not to show up in your vehicle health report too. Its arguably the most critical and the most often one that needs intervention. I have never once added brake fluid or engine coolant outside off service but i have had to add oil before. Yet they have those available but not oil

There is no denying its hard on purpose

it was the hood open and driver door open that made it work for me which were the Service advisor steps not the owner's manual steps. Im guessing its a secondary process to achieve the same result... like on a computer when you can do a particular function several ways

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

thats also a problem if you think about it. There is no standard process. IE you car has to be in neutral, mine doesnt.

With all this tech you would hope that people would kind of develop a standard and not every car doing something different as then once you add the technology on top it gets confusing. If the steps were more standard it would help

Completely agree.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yeah my initial steps were turn car ON... dont start it. still didn't work

not to be a conspiracy theorist but it cant be a coincidence that Oil is also the only fluid level not to show up in your vehicle health report too. Its arguably the most critical and the most often one that needs intervention. I have never once added brake fluid or engine coolant outside off service but i have had to add oil before. Yet they have those available but not oil

There is no denying its hard on purpose

Thanks - I believe this is the beginning of a new phase of sealing up the internal combustion engine package with automated sensors. This is a paradigm shift akin to the one my Dad’s generation experienced.

I recall that fuel dip sticks were used in the 1920’s because nobody trusted the early fuel gauge. Is this sort of the same thing? After all we use a digital fuel gauge now...and running low on fuel is a true calamity on the Interstate.

I remember in the 1950’s that Dad ranted - but in his case it was the voltmeter & oil pressure gauges being replaced by “idiot lights” with GM cars. Sensors had come down in cost and reliable enough to last for the warranty period.

But this first generation of sensor tech started with the Hudson in the 1930’s to use lights instead of gauges for oil pressure & voltmeter.

So maybe LR is the Hudson of an all digital engine package.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 77T

Thanks - I believe this is the beginning of a new phase of sealing up the internal combustion engine package with automated sensors. This is a paradigm shift akin to the one my Dad’s generation experienced.

I recall that fuel dip sticks were used in the 1920’s because no body trusted to early fuel gauge. Is this sort of the same thing? After all we use a digital fuel gauge now...and running low on fuel is a true calamity on the Interstate.

I remember in the 1950’s that Dad ranted - but in his case it was the voltmeter & oil pressure gauges being replaced by “idiot lights” with GM cars. Reliable sensors had come down in cost and reliable enough to last for the warranty period.

But this first generation of sensor tech started with the Hudson in the 1930’s to use lights instead of gauges for oil pressure & voltmeter.

So maybe LR is the Hudson of an all digital engine package.


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you know i haven't thought about the guages and tech (like gas). the normal gauge which most cars still have is sort of mechanical AFAIK. right? there is a float or something in the tank which then moves a physical needle on the display. Now its a sensor and a electronic screen. Therefore if the sensor fails you could run out of gas.

Maybe im wrong, but my last car had a needle for all the instruments so i just assumed it was a non electronic process.

[steve099]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

im really not ripping it. a bit frustrated with the oil checking process but yes, there are a lot of actual angry RR posts around here

I said it before, but i would still buy it again today six months later despite a couple of issues

My RRS cost me 1500 in 4 years, aside from normal service costs. My Audi RS4 cost me 7k in 14 months.

I am in a S class Mercedes now as I needed to keep my licence and got sick of my partners cracks at dropping my car off at Audi for repairs.

I loved all of them to be fair.

No prizes form guessing which one was more reliable.

[77T]

Fuel, coolant, oil, washer fluid have been digital sensors for past few years on many models.

My old 2006 V70 was still a fuel float sensor. To give you perspective, I once had it stick in the “full tank” position. I almost ran out of fuel until one day I noticed it had been a few days since visiting the fuel pump

The cost to replace was $500-800 because the sensor wand was part of the fuel pump. So, being the frugal Rolex collector that I am, - I searched Volvo forums for a DIY.

An orange poly BFH and a few raps on all sides of the fuel tank dislodged it for free. So there are downsides to analog, too...


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by steve099

My RRS cost me 1500 in 4 years, aside from normal service costs.

my costs so far have been self inflicted but should not have been necessary.

1. There is a small nook (12 inches) in the trunk on the side to put small items but no net as standard. really?
$200 + $200 install

2. car play costs $0 on 2019 range rovers. Not an option available when i ordered my 2019 range rover, but now it is.
$400 install charge

So im at $800 for stuff that really should have either come with the car as standard or been added at no cost

You cant even add the side net in your build. Its only an after the fact add on

[77T]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

You cant even add the side net in your build. Its only an after the fact add on

Dealer networks are to blame as they tell the mfr that they’re starving. So several items are deleted from convenience packages. That way they become dealer add-ons for profit.

Whilst dealing on my new (to me) CPO V90, I closed the deal then went to parts dept while they did the prep on the car. I chose about $800 worth of accessories they had in inventory and walked to GM’s office to ask for them. He added them at no cost.

That’s when I knew how much $$$ I left in the negotiation room

BTW, the oil dipstick is the bane of many DIY “oil adders”. Invariably they overfill. For years, mfr engineers have moved the “full” line down by several mm to help save them from themselves.

You have heard of slapping the piston?


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[RW16610]

Originally Posted by RHIII

My M has that feature as well not sure how I feel about EVERYTHING being controlled by the computer!! - I know car has to be in neutral (mine is a 6sp) and has to be running at idle (won’t work fight at startup).


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I'm not a huge fan of it either. For some features such as drive by wire it's nice if you've got a redundancy in case of a major failure.

To me, limp home mode can be extremely dangerous in the wrong place. The dealer wasn't very helpful either as the guy I spoke to said he's seen them go at 5,000 km's and 250,000 km's.

The sad reality is, some of the modern vehicles after a while do suffer from oil consumption. I know some of the Turbo Audi's did for sure and my car is now no exception. As always, profit motive is the clear factor here.

I'm just glad it's not as difficult for me as it is in the Range Rover though. Over the last few years it's as if all dealership's are less inclined to provide info and assistance other than booking you in for a costly (and sometimes unnecessary) service appointment.

Also, for my car I'm able to reset the TPMS myself after adding air to the tires. All of this was discovered by YouTube videos and car forums though.

[superdog]

and now my check engine light is on.....

[RHIII]

Originally Posted by RW16610

I'm not a huge fan of it either. For some features such as drive by wire it's nice if you've got a redundancy in case of a major failure.



To me, limp home mode can be extremely dangerous in the wrong place. The dealer wasn't very helpful either as the guy I spoke to said he's seen them go at 5,000 km's and 250,000 km's.



The sad reality is, some of the modern vehicles after a while do suffer from oil consumption. I know some of the Turbo Audi's did for sure and my car is now no exception. As always, profit motive is the clear factor here.



I'm just glad it's not as difficult for me as it is in the Range Rover though. Over the last few years it's as if all dealership's are less inclined to provide info and assistance other than booking you in for a costly (and sometimes unnecessary) service appointment.



Also, for my car I'm able to reset the TPMS myself after adding air to the tires. All of this was discovered by YouTube videos and car forums though.

Agreed. I CRINGE at the BMW service groups. I find that there are quite if few of unnecessary service ‘recommendations’ overall. One of my biggest complaints.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by superdog

and now my check engine light is on.....

service due?

no idea if the warnings are separate or all go to one. Would be nice to know the difference if one is an actual problem light and one is a service reminder

[CamSLC]

That's funny. I think my Tacoma is the first car I've owned with a dipstick is 6-7 years.

New car looks great, I wouldn't be concerned about the oil level leaving you stranded on your road trip.