Can I replace a genuine Rolex domed crystal

[cab1024]

Originally Posted by ch0ko

@cab1024 - This is my 1603 fully overhauled by Rolex service center in Singapore years ago. Luckily, they had the last casing along with the plexiglass, crown etc etc then. Maybe you can use the pic as a reference?Attachment 846347


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Your 1603 is gorgeous!

As for my watch, I think at thid point that I just have to suck it up. Oscar Messina's rep claims they threw away my used Rolex parts, and there's really nothing I or they can do about that now. She said he is in near daily contact with the local jeweler that I took it to (Nick, the owner of Estate Jewelry & Loan in Port St Joe, FL, and 98 Pawn & Jewelry in Panama City) and that any blame lies with him. So talk to him, she said. But I still wonder why they didn't just send the replaced parts back to me...

[cab1024]

I now have two in-writing responses from the watchmaker, but I'm not sure this forum can handle it

[Toronto Soup King]

You've got this far, why not show us the conclusion? By the way, all other comments on this forum aside, I think the watchmaker should have handled your watch better. My guy as a matter of policy returns all worn/unusable parts to me with the exception of mainsprings, and he's no Colossus of Horology, he's just my neighbourhood guy. I too would have been disappointed

[cab1024]

Ok, I suppose if one person is interested, there may be more. Here is my review of the service on the Trustlink website from March 8, 2017, followed by the exchange between us (yes, there is some repetition here from my first post):

My 1969 Rolex Datejust was sent for an overhaul through a local Panama City, FL, jeweler (98 Pawn and Jewelry, same owner as Estate Jewelry & Loan in Port St Joe, FL) who sends all of his watches, or at least all of his Rolexes, to Oscar Messina for servicing. I asked that nothing be replaced except for internal components of the movement, though I specified that I wanted the mainspring replaced for sure.

A month later my watch was ready, and when I picked it up it had a new crystal and a new crown replacing the originals. The crystal was not the same type that was on mine, which was the original 1969 acrylic domed crystal. Instead a flat crystal that was way too tall was in place. And the crown appeared to be larger than the original crown, though more importantly, the crown tube was not seated to the proper depth. When the crown is screwed in there is at least a 1mm gap between the crown and the case.

I brought the watch back to the local shop with a detailed note asking that the original parts be put back on the watch, or at least the exact same new parts replace the originals. The local shop sent the watch back to Oscar's shop and after a few weeks I picked it up today. The crystal had been replaced by an allegedly authentic, but previously used, Rolex crystal -- which was also not domed, at least not domed to the extent they were in the 60s. It had a slight curvature to it, but it was not the same style that was on it originally. The local guy said they couldn't find my original parts. Great... was it reused and resold due to its rarity?

The crown issue was not addressed at all. The oversized looking crown still has a 1mm gap. Once flush with the case it may not look oversized, but I recall the original being so small it was hard to hold onto in order to screw it in. Obviously I will never use Oscar Messina or 98 Pawn and Jewelery again, even if Oscar was allegedly was the lead Rolex watchmaker in Brazil earlier in his career. Replacing the parts was one thing, but not fixing the crown after being sent to Miami twice is unacceptable.

It's possible the information I specified--that nothing be replaced--did not reach Oscar's shop the first time, and maybe the detailed note I was asked to write was not sent the second time. But allowing the crown to leave his shop as it was, twice, is rather shocking to me. I called another jeweler in Panama City after leaving that works on Rolexes in-house and took the watch I inherited from my father directly there to have the crown tube seated properly. I got to wear it for 45 minutes at least. It should be ready in a couple of days. Hopefully the watch will at least keep good time after Oscar's overhaul. They was no communication as to whether it was regulated to COSC standards, only that it passed the pressure test with the replaced crystal and seals.

UPDATE: The other jeweler was unable to completely fix the crown tube as the wrong size was used. He reduced the gap to almost imperceptible, but fixing it correctly would require a new crown tube, stem and crown, which is only available as part of an official Rolex overhaul package for that model of watch -- which obviously Oscar Messina did not use.

Oscar Messina - 04/06/2017
In other words you are not a customer of ours , You have not bought anything from us and we did not make a service to you. You are complaining about a service that we performed on a watch given to us by another watch dealer. You also claim that you do not know exactly what happened... Sorry but it does not make send for you to leave a review being that you had no business with us

ME - 04/06/2017
I disagree. You've acknowledged that you did the work and that you have an ongoing relationship with my local jeweler who sends all of his Rolexes to you for servicing.

Regardless of the original and now rare Rolex crystal you allegedly threw away instead of returning to me, the crown tube you installed was the wrong part for my watch. That's why when the crown was screwed in there was a 2mm gap between the crown and the case. It was nowhere near flush and looked ridiculous. You had the opportunity to fix that when I sent it back but you did not, and you provided no explanation. If you did provide an explanation, it was not passed along by Nick, despite my asking if there were any comments from you regarding my watch. Your rep who I spoke to on the phone blamed Nick, the owner of Estate Jewelry & Loan and laid all blame on him. I suggest you figure out your internal mess with Nick and take responsibility for that relationship and your work.

And furthermore, why did you not return the original Rolex parts you replaced when you sent my watch back to me? That is standard practice for everyone but Rolex Service Centers. That why I went to an independent watchmaker, so my watch would be left all original. I should not have had to ask for parts to be returned, especially when I asked only for cleaning, lube and a new mainspring, and that nothing else be replaced.

Oscar Messina - 04/06/2017
Ok first of all you are no customer of mine so I have no obligation whatsoever towards you. I did what my customer requested, another watch dealer. In no place I have denied performing a service. The rare broken crystal , you mean? it was broken why would you want a broken crystal? Again, I did what my customer requested, to make the watch water proof you need to change the crystal otherwise water gets through the crystal... If a customer of mine requests service and water testing , I make what my customer requests. The crown tube is from there otherwise it would not have fitted. If you understand so much about watches maybe you should have serviced it yourself. No, you are wrong the tube has nothing to do with the crown not being flushed, the gasket that we installed that made your watch waterproof again did. I provided no explanation to you , because again you are no customer of mine if I have to give someone any explanation it would be to my customer, not you. We never return parts to watch dealers and they never requested so far. And what we do with our customers, who are watch dealers is of no concern to you. Our relationship with our customers is of no concern to you. Retail customers like you should never know where other dealers send watches for repair, this is really the first time it had happened. A nice tip, if you want the service center to be responsible take it there yourself and you give the instructions. Do not expect to give instructions to middleman and expect the other end of the party to get your instructions

Me - 04/06/2017
I went to Estate Jewelry & Loan to look at Rolexes. While I was there I asked about servicing my Rolex and if they recommended anyone. The woman that works there said that Nick, the owner, sends all of his watches to a guy in Miami -- he's the only person he trusts to work on them. So she gave me Nick's card and told me he is usually at their Panama City store. So I called Nick and he told me about you, Oscar, and that you used to be the head of the Rolex Service Centers in Brazil and that you do fabulous work and you are the only person he will send his watches to. So YES, I wanted you to do the work on my watch. But being a decent human being, I was not going cut him out and go to you directly when he was the one telling me about you and offering the service. I was willing to pay him more than your standard service price so that he got his cut, rather than hang up and call you. Besides Miami is nine hours from Port St Joe and Nick said he used Wells Fargo or some sort of armed transport rather than FedEx.

My entire reason for sending my watch to you was based on your reputation and career history and my wanting to do the right thing and make sure Nick got his standard share of a service deal. So for all of that, I end up getting screwed. From your perspective though everything was fine. I do appreciate that you replaced the crystal with a more appropriate one, even though it was not the same style that was on it. I disagree with you on the crown tube though. I took it to another watchmaker in Panama City and they said they could only adjust it some because the tube was too long for a 1603 case.

I have done some hobby servicing on watches. I have some idea of what I'm talking about. But I was surely not going to do the service myself on the watch my father bought in 1969 while overseas fighting for our country, which I inherited last year when he died. It is far too precious for me to risk anything like that. So I allowed Nick and his Wells Fargo armored car to transport my watch to you, Oscar Messina, former head of Rolex Service of Brazil. I surely see my mistakes now, but at the time I thought I was doing the very best thing possible from tiny little Port St Joe to have my father's watch serviced but retain all of its original parts. I could have gone to Rolex if none of that mattered.

You apparently seem to feel there is no relationship between us, that it ends with Nick in both directions. For that I am sorry and will eventually accept there will be no attempt to make things right. I'm a big boy and I will get over it. But right now I am in the mode of doing everything in my power to not just let it go. So, if you can think of anyway to make it right, from the watch owner's perspective, not you or your perceived customer's perspective, I am still listening.

[onthedial]

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