ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
23 May 2018, 03:39 PM | #1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Joyce
Location: SF and NYC
Watch: GMT, AP, DD,
Posts: 641
|
“Full set” premium worth it?
Dearest experts. When buying a used model, how much of a premium for all the papers really makes sense? The difference between “watch only” and “full set” can run in the thousands. Inquiring minds wanna know.
__________________
IG @crownthewatch |
23 May 2018, 03:42 PM | #2 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 17,622
|
Quote:
Your old star wars toys are worth astronomically more too if they are still in the box they came in and not so much if they are not. Same sort of thing IMO.
__________________
Instagram: tyler.watches current collection: Patek 5164A, Patek 5524G, Rolex Platinum Daytona 116506, Rolex Sea Dweller 43 126600, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, AP 15400ST (silver), Panerai 913, Omega Speedmaster moonwatch, Tudor Black Bay (Harrods Edition) |
|
23 May 2018, 04:10 PM | #3 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Joyce
Location: SF and NYC
Watch: GMT, AP, DD,
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
I hadn’t thought about the potential for shady history. Good point.
__________________
IG @crownthewatch |
|
23 May 2018, 04:14 PM | #4 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Real Name: Lee
Location: 42.48.45N70.48.48
Watch: What's on my wrist
Posts: 33,256
|
Had you thought about the possibility of forged papers and period boxes? Knowing your seller is most important.
|
23 May 2018, 04:18 PM | #5 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Joyce
Location: SF and NYC
Watch: GMT, AP, DD,
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
That’s for sure!
__________________
IG @crownthewatch |
|
23 May 2018, 04:18 PM | #6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2009
Real Name: Larry
Location: So Cal
Watch: Rolex GMT 1675
Posts: 5,084
|
On the other hand, if you are getting a watch from a trusted seller, are you going to pass up an outstanding vintage without paperwork, for a good vintage with paperwork?
I got a beautiful matte dial GMT with all the paperwork and receipts. Later on, the same TS had a beautiful matte dial 5512 Submariner without paperwork. I jumped at it! The condition of the watch is what I consider first. jmho
__________________
“Anyone can be sarcastic; it takes intelligence to solve a problem!” |
23 May 2018, 04:18 PM | #7 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 17,622
|
Quote:
Its always a gamble i guess
__________________
Instagram: tyler.watches current collection: Patek 5164A, Patek 5524G, Rolex Platinum Daytona 116506, Rolex Sea Dweller 43 126600, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, AP 15400ST (silver), Panerai 913, Omega Speedmaster moonwatch, Tudor Black Bay (Harrods Edition) |
|
23 May 2018, 05:06 PM | #8 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Faz
Location: Bay Area, CA
Watch: like'em all
Posts: 4,655
|
“Full set” premium worth it?
Always good to have box and papers, at least to give some history and help feel better about the watch not being stolen. But the watch could have been stolen with box and papers too, or on the other hand, watch could be a gift to say son/daughter and box/papers gone missing in parents house (somewhere in the garage in a box, no one knows where to find it).
For a watch that you plan on keeping, I wouldn’t worry too much about the papers if the seller was solid. If however you plan on flipping it, well, having papers will help you in the long run. I would gladly pay 10-20% premium for box and orig papers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
-Faz Instagram @fazmoto |
23 May 2018, 05:30 PM | #9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Real Name: Andy
Location: UK
Watch: 1665 GW mk1
Posts: 73
|
I would say it also comes down to age, if it is only a few years old and there is no box or papers I would be a bit cautious. If it’s a vintage piece not so much as they were tools back in the day not the luxury items they are now and as has been said earlier, watch condition first everything else second.
|
23 May 2018, 09:40 PM | #10 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Real Name: Michael
Location: RTP, NC, USA
Watch: ♕& Ω
Posts: 5,111
|
As noted by Andy, it matters more for more recent watches. However, my experience has been that it's worth no more than $1000 to have the full kit. If you never plan to sell it, then it's worth taking that discount.
I remember selling a watch once, and I had everything except the warranty card, which would have been expired anyway, and it still made it a tougher sell and I had to accept less because of it.
__________________
Enjoy life - it has an expiration date. Disclaimer: Please note that the avatar is not an accurate representation of how I look. The camera adds 10 pounds... |
23 May 2018, 09:55 PM | #11 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
Watch: Sky DayDate 2
Posts: 1,317
|
What would be considered the standard, watch with box and papers, or without? Contrary to a premium for having box and papers would be that the watch is discounted without them. This has been may perception, most of us seem to expect the watch to come with box and papers, or the value is perceived to be less; or maybe even a watch on which we'd pass. I guess for me the psychology seems to be that I am getting less, without the box and papers, and that could just be because "complete set" has been echoed through the ages, which now suggests that the watch may somehow be incomplete with them. No matter how you slice it, it works out the same.
|
23 May 2018, 09:58 PM | #12 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: X
Posts: 170
|
It's been said above, but I always buy the seller. Due diligence is key. I have heard of numerous instances where even with a full kit, parts have been swapped out, or upon taking the watch to RSC for service, the watch was confiscated as it had been reported stolen. So, while I think full kit is certainly worth a premium to prove at least some provenance of the watch, one still must always be very careful.
|
23 May 2018, 10:18 PM | #13 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Maryland, USA
Watch: Sometimes
Posts: 1,197
|
Box and papers add value... but, not on your wrist!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
23 May 2018, 11:44 PM | #14 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Boston
Watch: Rolex Deepsea
Posts: 122
|
I prefer a full set. It adds quite a bit of value down the road. IMO it’s well worth the premium for a correct set. The accessories can give a bit more history of the watch.But be aware a carelessly put-together set may raise questions if you decide to sell it one day.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
23 May 2018, 11:55 PM | #15 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,410
|
Paper and box could be fake too.
|
23 May 2018, 11:58 PM | #16 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Joyce
Location: SF and NYC
Watch: GMT, AP, DD,
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
Yes I’ve seen some odd collections that are out of place
__________________
IG @crownthewatch |
|
23 May 2018, 11:58 PM | #17 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Joyce
Location: SF and NYC
Watch: GMT, AP, DD,
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
Haha! True
__________________
IG @crownthewatch |
|
24 May 2018, 12:28 AM | #18 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Real Name: David
Location: Home
Watch: Classics
Posts: 773
|
I prefer a full set
|
24 May 2018, 12:39 AM | #19 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NYC
Watch: 116710BLNR
Posts: 1,541
|
A full set is always worth it but if not possible then papers/card are more important than the box. You can always buy original boxes but you will never find the original card. There are people selling real papers and cards on eBay, but you’ll have a better chance of winning the lottery before finding missing papers for a watch.
__________________
Rolex 116710 BLNR Rolex Day Date 118238 Champagne/Batons |
24 May 2018, 12:55 AM | #20 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NL
Watch: Yachtmaster
Posts: 14,392
|
I only buy a full set, without papers I don't even consider buying, regardless how good a deal it may be.
Resale value is totally irrelevant for me, since I never sell. I just want to have all the bits and pieces that came with the watch. Part of the hobby. Regardless the model, there will be always one equally nice with all the papers.
__________________
Day Date 18238, Yachtmaster 16622, Deepsea 116660, Submariner 116619, SkyD 326935, DJ 178271, DJ 69158, Yachtmaster 169622, GMT 116713LN, GMT 126711. |
24 May 2018, 12:56 AM | #21 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Watch: Platinum Daytona
Posts: 785
|
I would pay a premium just to have box and papers full set.
|
24 May 2018, 01:10 AM | #22 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: USA/Canada
Watch: Rolex, AP, Panerai
Posts: 813
|
Definitely buy the seller first.
Having said that, box and papers are important and generally worth the premium. If you want to sell the watch down the road, box and papers come in very handy. Especially if you aren't a trusted seller and want the potential buyer to buy you as the seller. |
24 May 2018, 01:14 AM | #23 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Mike
Location: Illinois
Watch: BLNR VTNR PAM 915
Posts: 1,758
|
What if an AD is selling a used watch w/o papers. Would you think you could haggle down as much as $1000?
|
24 May 2018, 02:50 AM | #24 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Joyce
Location: SF and NYC
Watch: GMT, AP, DD,
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
I think the added value of the papers and accessories is the story it tells. It’s a brand experience that gets missed w the watch only.
__________________
IG @crownthewatch |
|
24 May 2018, 02:51 AM | #25 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Joyce
Location: SF and NYC
Watch: GMT, AP, DD,
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
I doubt it ?
__________________
IG @crownthewatch |
|
24 May 2018, 03:05 AM | #26 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2015
Real Name: Mike
Location: Pacific Northwest
Watch: 116610LV 16710 SD
Posts: 10,649
|
Buy the seller first and foremost and papers are great but not a deal breaker for me.
|
24 May 2018, 03:12 AM | #27 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Houston
Posts: 17,622
|
the other thing is stop thinking of it as a full set premium but rather a no papers discount. You are not paying extra for the papers.
__________________
Instagram: tyler.watches current collection: Patek 5164A, Patek 5524G, Rolex Platinum Daytona 116506, Rolex Sea Dweller 43 126600, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, AP 15400ST (silver), Panerai 913, Omega Speedmaster moonwatch, Tudor Black Bay (Harrods Edition) |
24 May 2018, 03:33 AM | #28 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,030
|
The Papers and Boxes just sit in the Safe,The Watch is most important to me.
|
24 May 2018, 04:59 AM | #29 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2016
Real Name: Paul
Location: Chester UK
Watch: Rolex GMT Master
Posts: 4,594
|
And to flip the coin here , I would take the age of the watch into consideration too . I would expect a watch bought around 10-15 years ago to still have B&P as the norm , but anything older than that it's the condition of the watch that matters most to me ,after completing due diligence on the buyer & watch . Things happen in life though & B&P do get lost or thrown out due to house moves, couples splitting up , etc & not just because the watch has been stolen. True story , when I was getting divorced from my 1st wife she took some family heirlooms which were very sentimental to me & several watches of mine with full B&P when she moved out of the house . I tried my hardest to get them back & even went to the police , only to be told as we were still married she was entitled to take them. After a long drawn out period including my solicitors help , she gave me the watches back & the family heirlooms ,but said she had thrown all the B&P away .
|
24 May 2018, 06:06 AM | #30 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 112
|
i only care about papers. box just takes up space in my safe.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.