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Old 14 December 2018, 03:15 AM   #1
dsk28
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"You must bundle to purchase a Nautilus"

Dear Patek Philippe collectors,

What do you think of recent demand by ADs requesting customers to "Bundle" their purchase in order to increase our chances of attaining a Nautilus? I recently have an experience in a Singapore AD where they explicitly told me to purchase a classic piece (non-sports) annual calender before they would allocate a Nautilus piece to me. My question is:

1. Is this the same everywhere else around the world?
2. Is this the new norm of Patek Philippe brand? (forcing us to purchase something we do not like in order to get a piece that suits our liking) or is this leaning more towards the AD?
3. Is this even legal?

In my opinion it is absurd that such measures must be taken in order for us to purchase a piece of luxury timepiece that we desire, but im interested to know what are your thoughts.

Regards,
Steve

Edit: I own a 5711 and have purchased 4 other timepieces from this specific AD
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Old 14 December 2018, 03:25 AM   #2
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1. Demand for steel sports nautilus is so much higher than anything else in the catalog and many of the other things in the catalog are becoming very hard/impossible to sell

2. ADs are businesses and want to maximize how much money they can make, and i'd venture to say that with the uneven demand for certain watches, they are probably not exactly making a killing nowadays

3. Why would it not be legal? lol

I think if they tell you up front what the package deal is and you can do your own math and decide if its worth it to you or not, that is a win win for all parties involved
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Old 14 December 2018, 03:29 AM   #3
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It is happening in the UK as well. I am aware that 2 big AD chains are asking first time customers to buy other watches/jewellery in order to get in to Nautilus waiting lists. I am sure Patek is fully aware of it.
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Old 14 December 2018, 03:34 AM   #4
rolexpatek363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsk28 View Post
Dear Patek Philippe collectors,

What do you think of recent demand by ADs requesting customers to "Bundle" their purchase in order to increase our chances of attaining a Nautilus? I recently have an experience in a Singapore AD where they explicitly told me to purchase a classic piece (non-sports) annual calender before they would allocate a Nautilus piece to me. My question is:

1. Is this the same everywhere else around the world?
2. Is this the new norm of Patek Philippe brand? (forcing us to purchase something we do not like in order to get a piece that suits our liking) or is this leaning more towards the AD?
3. Is this even legal?

In my opinion it is absurd that such measures must be taken in order for us to purchase a piece of luxury timepiece that we desire, but im interested to know what are your thoughts.

Regards,
Steve

Edit: I own a 5711 and have purchased 4 other timepieces from this specific AD
They are free to offer whatever they want to offer, and we are free to politely decline the offer. The level of assumed desperation among PP buyers by the AD is out of all proportion to the necessity of the purchase.
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Old 14 December 2018, 03:36 AM   #5
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It is happening in the UK as well. I am aware that 2 big AD chains are asking first time customers to buy other watches/jewellery in order to get in to Nautilus waiting lists. I am sure Patek is fully aware of it.

thats WOS then , ive had them try it with me when ive enquired, but thankfully i have great a relationship with my AD who will always get my custom
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Old 14 December 2018, 03:49 AM   #6
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thats WOS then , ive had them try it with me when ive enquired, but thankfully i have great a relationship with my AD who will always get my custom
Correct. Boodles also asking new customers to purchase jewellery/other Pateks in order to get a Nautilus.
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Old 14 December 2018, 03:57 AM   #7
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Capitalism.

The Nautilus sell at so much of a premium over retail that it makes sense to do so.

I think the Retailers and you will want it to be win-win. They sell you a combo package that is still better than grey.
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Old 14 December 2018, 04:02 AM   #8
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Look basically we all know its a game, and it's however best you play it, I'm not saying it's right but it's life

Thankfully as I say I've built up a nice relationship where I suppose I'm a lucky man

I'm sure you have too
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Correct. Boodles also asking new customers to purchase jewellery/other Pateks in order to get a Nautilus.
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Old 14 December 2018, 04:03 AM   #9
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You know what the real problem is?? There aren't enough watches people actually want.... Everyone wants steel sports watches and nautilus when it comes to patek. Sad but true.

ou kind of have to wonder if Patek's hand won't be forced to make more quantities and more references.
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Old 14 December 2018, 04:14 AM   #10
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You know what the real problem is?? There aren't enough watches people actually want.... Everyone wants steel sports watches and nautilus when it comes to patek. Sad but true.

ou kind of have to wonder if Patek's hand won't be forced to make more quantities and more references.
I've always been under the impression (and I could be completely wrong) that Patek's, along with many other watchmakers, sales are booming. Numbers are higher than ever because of the scarcity of the popular models coupled with the social media effect. I mean sure not everybody who can't buy a Nautilus goes and buys a dress piece instead, but theres a percentage that does right? I think Patek knows exactly what they're doing, same as Rolex, and are embracing it.
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Old 14 December 2018, 04:35 AM   #11
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I've always been under the impression (and I could be completely wrong) that Patek's, along with many other watchmakers, sales are booming. Numbers are higher than ever because of the scarcity of the popular models coupled with the social media effect. I mean sure not everybody who can't buy a Nautilus goes and buys a dress piece instead, but theres a percentage that does right? I think Patek knows exactly what they're doing, same as Rolex, and are embracing it.
Sales booming?! I mean would like to be proven otherwise but seems to me that most of the catalog is quite slow with exception only for the sports watches....
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Old 14 December 2018, 04:36 AM   #12
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You know what the real problem is?? There aren't enough watches people actually want.... Everyone wants steel sports watches and nautilus when it comes to patek. Sad but true.



ou kind of have to wonder if Patek's hand won't be forced to make more quantities and more references.


SPOT ON my friend.

I’ve commented on this phenomenon before - so I will pass this go round. But I’ve been saying this same thing for a while know - and had conversations about it with my AD friends. Just release the watches - and sell them to the people who want them!!!!

At the end of the day there is nothing ‘rare’ or ‘collectible’ about a modern reference —if we’re talking about a 3700 Jumbo...different story.




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Old 14 December 2018, 04:41 AM   #13
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F that.


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Old 14 December 2018, 04:43 AM   #14
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Sales booming?! I mean would like to be proven otherwise but seems to me that most of the catalog is quite slow with exception only for the sports watches....
Then maybe I've heard wrong. Don't remember where or when i heard or read it, but that was the impression I was under. But I agree it would be great if Patek started increasing production on the modern sport models so more people could buy them.
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Old 14 December 2018, 04:45 AM   #15
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Sales booming?! I mean would like to be proven otherwise but seems to me that most of the catalog is quite slow with exception only for the sports watches....


Agree — how can sales be booming when no one has any watches to sell!!


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Old 14 December 2018, 04:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by thomaspp View Post
1. Demand for steel sports nautilus is so much higher than anything else in the catalog and many of the other things in the catalog are becoming very hard/impossible to sell

2. ADs are businesses and want to maximize how much money they can make, and i'd venture to say that with the uneven demand for certain watches, they are probably not exactly making a killing nowadays

3. Why would it not be legal? lol

I think if they tell you up front what the package deal is and you can do your own math and decide if its worth it to you or not, that is a win win for all parties involved
Are you serious? Not making a killing? Their mark-up is at least 10 grand on a 5711- if their greed causes them to want more , they won’t get it from me. This extortion imo is unconscionable.
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Old 14 December 2018, 04:58 AM   #17
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At the end of the day there is nothing ‘rare’ or ‘collectible’ about a modern reference —if we’re talking about a 3700 Jumbo...different story.
Nearly 5000 Jumbo 3700’s in steel isn’t particularly ‘rare’ but it is running ‘collectible’ at the moment. I have no doubt they will fall back at some point.
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Old 14 December 2018, 05:12 AM   #18
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Are you serious? Not making a killing? Their mark-up is at least 10 grand on a 5711- if their greed causes them to want more , they won’t get it from me. This extortion imo is unconscionable.
I understand and I'm a collector just as frustrated with the current market. But I understand the situation the ADs are in. We could go buy an annual calendar, a perpetual etc etc which you will likely get a discount on but no, truth is we all want the same sports watches!

There is limited supply of watches people actually want (a measure self-imposed by the manufacturer for whatever reason) and ADs are stuck in this situation of having to buy watches they can't sell easily from the manufacturer and yet have a ton of customers for a handful of watches that everyone wants... so the system is broken and this bundeling is just a way for them to try to manage it.
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Old 14 December 2018, 05:14 AM   #19
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Nearly 5000 Jumbo 3700’s in steel isn’t particularly ‘rare’ but it is running ‘collectible’ at the moment. I have no doubt they will fall back at some point.

Here are the production numbers of 3700 actually.... I hope prices fall but looking at 2499 and other vintage patek, something tells me they won’t anytime soon! Lol




I love 5711 and 12 etc but in comparison to 3700, the 3700 production numbers are tiny (especially if you consider the condition of those that are "collectible"). There must be more than 12,000 5711s out there by now. You agree? Best


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Old 14 December 2018, 05:26 AM   #20
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Here are the production numbers of 3700 actually.... I hope prices fall but looking at 2499 and other vintage patek, something tells me they won’t anytime soon! Lol




I love 5711 and 12 etc but in comparison to 3700, the 3700 production numbers are tiny (especially if you consider the condition of those that are "collectible"). There must be more than 12,000 5711s out there by now. You agree? Best


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Same book I was quoting from - an excellant read. I have no doubt the 3700 is rarer than the 5711, but you can’t describe nearly 5000 as a tiny production number.
Not sure 2499 belongs in the same conversation and certainly doesn’t tell us anything about the price of 3700/5711 ongoing.
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Old 14 December 2018, 05:43 AM   #21
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Same book I was quoting from - an excellant read. I have no doubt the 3700 is rarer than the 5711, but you can’t describe nearly 5000 as a tiny production number.
Not sure 2499 belongs in the same conversation and certainly doesn’t tell us anything about the price of 3700/5711 ongoing.
Great book yes! and he is very nice scholar/collector. I hear you re: 2499 with 350 examples it's quite on a league of its own. Many vintage watches have reached high prices though (see rolex Daytonas, submariners, gmts, early speedmasters, etc.) and my personal opinion is I don't see 3700 coming down any time soon, especially those in good condition!

Nautilus fever is at an all time high that is for sure however. It seems people have a burning desire for sports watches from Richard Mille, to modern nautilus, to vintage sports watches from the 1950s-1970s....
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Old 14 December 2018, 05:52 AM   #22
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In a way I can understand why the AD is doing it. Same with the daytona. Everybody want’s it so they can sell it 20 mins later, with a mark up on 50%. I can understand why they sell to a good client or a good buyer.

There is no PP or Rolex shortage, just alot of people who wants easy money on the hyped models, thanks to the internet and the booming middle classs around the world.
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Old 14 December 2018, 05:59 AM   #23
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Agree — how can sales be booming when no one has any watches to sell!!


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Totally


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Old 14 December 2018, 06:02 AM   #24
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Agree — how can sales be booming when no one has any watches to sell!!


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Totally


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Someone out there is selling 50,000+ PP per annum - I deal with 2 AD’s and both tell me they have never had it so good.
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Old 14 December 2018, 06:04 AM   #25
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In a way I can understand why the AD is doing it. Same with the daytona. Everybody want’s it so they can sell it 20 mins later, with a mark up on 50%. I can understand why they sell to a good client or a good buyer.

There is no PP or Rolex shortage, just alot of people who wants easy money on the hyped models, thanks to the internet and the booming middle classs around the world.
An AD told me that they were asking first time buyers to purchase other Pateks to get a Nautilus to discourage people who would flip it immediately for a profit. They said now they had to forward all the names for Nautilus to their VIP client services and the list is managed locally as well as centrally. Due to the list being managed centrally they had found out that few people putting down their names for the same watches on stores at different locations.
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Old 14 December 2018, 06:12 AM   #26
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Someone out there is selling 50,000+ PP per annum - I deal with 2 AD’s and both tell me they have never had it so good.


Great to hear! Glad the business and retail network are doing well!


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Old 14 December 2018, 06:21 AM   #27
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Bundling is fair practice as long as you're told up front about it, nothing worse than waiting months or even years and then being told you have double your expenditure to get the watch you want.
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Old 14 December 2018, 06:33 AM   #28
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I think ADs are probably doing better than ever, Rolex same, from the spill over to less popular models, but there must be so much frustration over how much money is being left on the grey's tables with their limited supply policies that do not adjust to reflect changing market conditions.
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Old 14 December 2018, 07:16 AM   #29
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Here are the production numbers of 3700 actually.... I hope prices fall but looking at 2499 and other vintage patek, something tells me they won’t anytime soon! Lol









I love 5711 and 12 etc but in comparison to 3700, the 3700 production numbers are tiny (especially if you consider the condition of those that are "collectible"). There must be more than 12,000 5711s out there by now. You agree? Best





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Here’s to hoping two tone comes back in force and I am rewarded for my choice of 3700 AJ over the 5711r




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Old 14 December 2018, 07:50 AM   #30
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An AD told me that they were asking first time buyers to purchase other Pateks to get a Nautilus to discourage people who would flip it immediately for a profit. They said now they had to forward all the names for Nautilus to their VIP client services and the list is managed locally as well as centrally. Due to the list being managed centrally they had found out that few people putting down their names for the same watches on stores at different locations.
Ha! Tell me another fairy tale from the AD :-)
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