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Old 16 February 2020, 10:47 AM   #61
lanteanflux
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thanks and I do remember this one indeed but I thought you were talking about an auction specially for the older models and not just one watch :-)
These two also went through

Yellow RDM prototype for 250k

https://www.phillips.com/detail/fp-journe/NY080119/73

Crappy yellow RDM for 47k

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/c...-02a-151/78766

Good condition yellow RDM we’re going for about 30-35 before then. Afterwards I noticed all yellow watches and resonances got pulled or bought on Chrono24 and think some dealers have used this opportunity to filter them back in at a higher price. I certainly remember one watch that was pulled and put back up with same specs but higher price.
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Old 16 February 2020, 05:39 PM   #62
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These two also went through

Yellow RDM prototype for 250k

https://www.phillips.com/detail/fp-journe/NY080119/73

Crappy yellow RDM for 47k

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/c...-02a-151/78766

Good condition yellow RDM we’re going for about 30-35 before then. Afterwards I noticed all yellow watches and resonances got pulled or bought on Chrono24 and think some dealers have used this opportunity to filter them back in at a higher price. I certainly remember one watch that was pulled and put back up with same specs but higher price.

thanks for the extra info / links
Most seem to be platinum with yellow dial ... I prefer red gold with the silver grey dial however . Any Idea when these were first made ?

I have the very first FP Journe catalog, will in fact it's just a map with 2 watches. The tourbillon and the resonance. Both in platinum
No idea when he started to make gold ( especially red gold) cases
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Old 16 February 2020, 05:44 PM   #63
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thanks for the extra info / links
Most seem to be platinum with yellow dial ... I prefer red gold with the silver grey dial however . Any Idea when these were first made ?

I have the very first FP Journe catalog, will in fact it's just a map with 2 watches. The tourbillon and the resonance. Both in platinum
No idea when he started to make gold ( especially red gold) cases

Great reviews if you are interested in early FPJ. Happy viewing!

https://youtu.be/XRfqu8HGBZs

https://youtu.be/7dchQpoRlSo

https://youtu.be/0nJ0_TVdkmQ
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Old 16 February 2020, 10:13 PM   #64
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Great reviews if you are interested in early FPJ. Happy viewing!

https://youtu.be/XRfqu8HGBZs

https://youtu.be/7dchQpoRlSo

https://youtu.be/0nJ0_TVdkmQ
Thanks
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Old 17 February 2020, 10:14 PM   #65
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I felt compelled to register after reading Lanteanflux post “Why I paid up for a Chronometre Bleu.” I thought it perfectly summed up my own recent journey to purchase a CB (luckily <$40k based on recent pricing!). For me, I came to the conclusion that there was significant reference bias with regard to pricing that I thought was misplaced (debuted 2009 as an entry watch in the worst recession in 100 years) coupled with the fact that it may be discontinued (going on 10 years) and I didn’t understand the relative prices of say a blue dial Nautilus and the CB.

One reason for the recent price changes is the rumor that the CB may have been discontinued as of a few weeks ago. At least that is what I have been told recently.

My other watches include an A. Lange Homage to F.A. Lange moonphase in honey gold and a Deep Sea Sea Dweller. The CB has been on my wrist 90% of the time. It’s truly an unbelievable watch that is also very versatile with different straps from casual to black tie.

Enjoy!
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Old 18 February 2020, 11:57 AM   #66
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One reason for the recent price changes is the rumor that the CB may have been discontinued as of a few weeks ago. At least that is what I have been told recently.



Enjoy!

Congrats on your CB. Pics? I am concerned with the discontinuation statement. Who told you it was discontinued? Boutiques? Geneva?



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Old 18 February 2020, 12:33 PM   #67
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Honest to god I think the nautilus is a safer buy at 50-60k than the CB at 40. The reason for the escalation in price with the CB is purely based on supply. Greys are able to easily make a market in these because Journe doesn’t make a lot of them. I don’t think 1 in 1000 people even know Journe in most major cities.

Let me be clear I think Journe is one of the most interesting watchmakers alive and aim to own one some day. That doesn’t change how I feel about the market for them.

Price escalation is rarely driven by hardcore enthusiasts.
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Old 18 February 2020, 02:01 PM   #68
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Honest to god I think the nautilus is a safer buy at 50-60k than the CB at 40. The reason for the escalation in price with the CB is purely based on supply. Greys are able to easily make a market in these because Journe doesn’t make a lot of them. I don’t think 1 in 1000 people even know Journe in most major cities.

Let me be clear I think Journe is one of the most interesting watchmakers alive and aim to own one some day. That doesn’t change how I feel about the market for them.

Price escalation is rarely driven by hardcore enthusiasts.
Isn’t that circular? Saying price is due to limited supply, not enthusiast demand? Price is a function of supply AND demand!
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Old 18 February 2020, 02:01 PM   #69
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I felt compelled to register after reading Lanteanflux post “Why I paid up for a Chronometre Bleu.” I thought it perfectly summed up my own recent journey to purchase a CB (luckily <$40k based on recent pricing!). For me, I came to the conclusion that there was significant reference bias with regard to pricing that I thought was misplaced (debuted 2009 as an entry watch in the worst recession in 100 years) coupled with the fact that it may be discontinued (going on 10 years) and I didn’t understand the relative prices of say a blue dial Nautilus and the CB.

One reason for the recent price changes is the rumor that the CB may have been discontinued as of a few weeks ago. At least that is what I have been told recently.

My other watches include an A. Lange Homage to F.A. Lange moonphase in honey gold and a Deep Sea Sea Dweller. The CB has been on my wrist 90% of the time. It’s truly an unbelievable watch that is also very versatile with different straps from casual to black tie.

Enjoy!
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Old 18 February 2020, 04:02 PM   #70
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Honest to god I think the nautilus is a safer buy at 50-60k than the CB at 40. The reason for the escalation in price with the CB is purely based on supply. Greys are able to easily make a market in these because Journe doesn’t make a lot of them. I don’t think 1 in 1000 people even know Journe in most major cities.

Let me be clear I think Journe is one of the most interesting watchmakers alive and aim to own one some day. That doesn’t change how I feel about the market for them.

Price escalation is rarely driven by hardcore enthusiasts.
I completely disagree.

As a "hardcore enthusiast" I'm paying much higher prices for FP Journe pieces now than I was 12+ months ago. The market is the market... if you want the piece you need to pay the current rate, not what it may have been 3 years ago when a CB was readily available in a boutique.

The REAL fact is that in FP Journe's history he has created around 12,000 mechanical watches in 20 years... Patek produce 60,000 every year, and they probably make more 5711's every year than the total number of CB's FPJ has produced in the last 10 years.

So, the fact is the supply on a CB is incredibly limited and the demand continues to grow. It's a great watch, and I'd much prefer to own this piece of horology than a 5711. And yes, I realise I'm in the minority of picking a CB over a 5711 but I'm NOT someone who posts photos of a 5711 on Instagram to find a date :)
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Old 18 February 2020, 05:12 PM   #71
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I completely disagree.

As a "hardcore enthusiast" I'm paying much higher prices for FP Journe pieces now than I was 12+ months ago. The market is the market... if you want the piece you need to pay the current rate, not what it may have been 3 years ago when a CB was readily available in a boutique.

The REAL fact is that in FP Journe's history he has created around 12,000 mechanical watches in 20 years... Patek produce 60,000 every year, and they probably make more 5711's every year than the total number of CB's FPJ has produced in the last 10 years.

So, the fact is the supply on a CB is incredibly limited and the demand continues to grow. It's a great watch, and I'd much prefer to own this piece of horology than a 5711. And yes, I realise I'm in the minority of picking a CB over a 5711 but I'm NOT someone who posts photos of a 5711 on Instagram to find a date :)
I am that “minority”..

I own multiple nautilus in different references n CB .. I certainly pick CB. I for one think the premium on 5711 is ridiculous. I won’t even pay 20k for 5711.
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Old 18 February 2020, 09:28 PM   #72
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I completely disagree.

As a "hardcore enthusiast" I'm paying much higher prices for FP Journe pieces now than I was 12+ months ago. The market is the market... if you want the piece you need to pay the current rate, not what it may have been 3 years ago when a CB was readily available in a boutique.

The REAL fact is that in FP Journe's history he has created around 12,000 mechanical watches in 20 years... Patek produce 60,000 every year, and they probably make more 5711's every year than the total number of CB's FPJ has produced in the last 10 years.

So, the fact is the supply on a CB is incredibly limited and the demand continues to grow. It's a great watch, and I'd much prefer to own this piece of horology than a 5711. And yes, I realise I'm in the minority of picking a CB over a 5711 but I'm NOT someone who posts photos of a 5711 on Instagram to find a date :)
I’m also in that minority
Now..... need to post my 5711 to get a date
Never thought about it that way 😁
Maybe better my CB cause I’m looking for not just any girl 😂😂😂
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Old 18 February 2020, 09:57 PM   #73
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The point I was trying to make which may be wrong of course is that in this market journe prices are even easier to manipulate for well funded greys like WatchBox and Watchfinder etc.

I don’t think the 5711 is worth even 30k I don’t think the journe is either. I think the journe will fall in price before the 5711. That is all.
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Old 18 February 2020, 10:59 PM   #74
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Quick morning pic of the collection. I love the contrast between the German Lange and the whimsical look of the CB. I also want to make clear there is nothing to take away from the Nautilus in my previous comment. Just a simple comparison of price. It is another wonderful watch.
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Old 19 February 2020, 06:02 AM   #75
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Quick morning pic of the collection.

Nice spread and nicely balanced.


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Old 21 February 2020, 07:20 PM   #76
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The point I was trying to make which may be wrong of course is that in this market journe prices are even easier to manipulate for well funded greys like WatchBox and Watchfinder etc.

I don’t think the 5711 is worth even 30k I don’t think the journe is either. I think the journe will fall in price before the 5711. That is all.
I still completely disagree with your conclusion.

You don't think a CB is worth $30K???

A CB has FP Journe's most difficult (standard production) dial to make and the most difficult case to make, polished tantalum.

Can't you accept that sometimes people choose to pay above retail because they actually want to own the watch rather than wait 5+ years?

It's not all about hype, it can be as simple as the supply not meeting real demand. You don't think there are more than 500 people in the entire world that would leap at the chance to buy it at retail because they want to own and wear a CB with no intention of flipping it? At less than 100 a year production wise, that would be a 5+ year waiting list from genuine buyers...
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Old 21 February 2020, 07:22 PM   #77
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You don't think a CB is worth $30K???

A CB has FP Journe's most difficult (standard production) dial to make and the most difficult case to make, polished tantalum.

Can't you accept that sometimes people choose to pay above retail because they actually want to own the watch rather than wait 5+ years?
Except the person who works the hardest to produce said most difficult dial and most difficult case doesn't actually get the premium that people are paying on the grey market.
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Old 21 February 2020, 10:16 PM   #78
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I still completely disagree with your conclusion.



You don't think a CB is worth $30K???



A CB has FP Journe's most difficult (standard production) dial to make and the most difficult case to make, polished tantalum.



Can't you accept that sometimes people choose to pay above retail because they actually want to own the watch rather than wait 5+ years?



It's not all about hype, it can be as simple as the supply not meeting real demand. You don't think there are more than 500 people in the entire world that would leap at the chance to buy it at retail because they want to own and wear a CB with no intention of flipping it? At less than 100 a year production wise, that would be a 5+ year waiting list from genuine buyers...


No I don’t think it’s worth 30k. The market is way out of touch the last 2 years imho. I certainly respect your opinion and understand your argument.

I think journe prices are heavily influenced by large greys hoarding inventory.

Journe is still a connoisseurs brand at this point. Most WIS would entertain a more complicated journe before forking over 40k for a CB. It’s not a sports watch after all so I don’t see mass appeal in its future period.

I have gone grey before and paid well over retail many times. I get it. Time is more valuable and all.
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Old 21 February 2020, 11:06 PM   #79
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I agree with GB-man here. I was able to and owned a CB for a few months and I actually got bored of it real fast. While I do like it here are the very real cons:

1) The case is tantalum and yes I was able to ding it somehow (lol).
2) Being a dress watch, you basically have to avoid any moisture like the plague.
3) It is SERIOUS A PITA to wind. I hated winding that thing.
4) Dial in the end is quite simple/classy - I actually got bored of the blue after a few weeks.
5) It looks great in photos with a blue strap but in reality blue on blue is really boring.
6) In the mid $20s it is a great watch. In the $30s it is ok.


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No I don’t think it’s worth 30k. The market is way out of touch the last 2 years imho. I certainly respect your opinion and understand your argument.

I think journe prices are heavily influenced by large greys hoarding inventory.

Journe is still a connoisseurs brand at this point. Most WIS would entertain a more complicated journe before forking over 40k for a CB. It’s not a sports watch after all so I don’t see mass appeal in its future period.

I have gone grey before and paid well over retail many times. I get it. Time is more valuable and all.
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Old 22 February 2020, 12:49 AM   #80
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2) Being a dress watch, you basically have to avoid any moisture like the plague.
Why?? I take out the strap and wash it whenever I wanted to put it away for a extended period of time (my first CB) which I owned for a few years now. No problem whatsoever. I wash with soap n soft brush under running water.
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Old 22 February 2020, 01:17 AM   #81
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Yes!
More talk of how FPJ are overpriced ! Really want prices to come down on older out-of-production models so they are more affordable to me lol.


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Old 22 February 2020, 02:36 AM   #82
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I agree with GB-man here. I was able to and owned a CB for a few months and I actually got bored of it real fast. While I do like it here are the very real cons:

1) The case is tantalum and yes I was able to ding it somehow (lol).
2) Being a dress watch, you basically have to avoid any moisture like the plague.
3) It is SERIOUS A PITA to wind. I hated winding that thing.
4) Dial in the end is quite simple/classy - I actually got bored of the blue after a few weeks.
5) It looks great in photos with a blue strap but in reality blue on blue is really boring.
6) In the mid $20s it is a great watch. In the $30s it is ok.
I respect your opinion and am not here to start an argument. We all have different tastes and here is my perspective on the points you have made.

1) Yes, tantalum is a hard material, but not indestructible. Just like gold, platinum or steel, a watch can get dinged, although tantalum, not as easily.

2) As long as you don't swim or shower with it, it's not a problem. I avoid doing those things with most of my watches anyway. I have had sports watches get moisture inside the case on more than one occasion.

3) I think it winds fine. I have several other pieces that are much worse to wind.

4) You can get bored with many other watches after a while too.

5) I have 3 different colored straps for mine. With the quick change straps and variety of colors available, I am sure anyone can find a combo that is not boring.

6) Just like any other high demand piece. A Rolex 15500LN, Patek 5711 or AP 15202ST are all great pieces at retail. At twice the price or more, not so great.
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Old 22 February 2020, 02:52 AM   #83
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I don’t think the 5711 is worth even 30k I don’t think the journe is either. I think the journe will fall in price before the 5711. That is all.
None of the hot watches are worth their asking prices these days.

As far as it falling in price before the 5711, I don't think that will be the case. You can still get on a list for a 5711. The CB list is basically closed with a 7-8 year backlog.
And with the difficulty in producing the CB and it's entry level pricing for FP, it is much more likely to be discontinued than the 5711. They have already cut production in half. This will only lead to more demand and higher prices.
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Old 22 February 2020, 05:11 AM   #84
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The point I was trying to make which may be wrong of course is that in this market journe prices are even easier to manipulate for well funded greys like WatchBox and Watchfinder etc.

I don’t think the 5711 is worth even 30k I don’t think the journe is either. I think the journe will fall in price before the 5711. That is all.
Agree with your point, as a result of the low production/availability the market can more easily be manipulated. In the case of the Chrono bleu, I had been contemplating one for several years before I pulled the trigger. Before the big buzz the bleu would have availability like the tide... I would not see any for sale for a month or two or three and then 2 or 3 pieces would suddenly appear... they would be bought before I could contact the seller and then there would be another lull in availability.

As far as the future of fp journe watches, I believe they are an important and authentic offering in the watch world. Original and innovative designs that truly bring something new AND WEARABLE (vs some of the other independents). The current market for FPJ outside of the bleu is being driven by his earlier watches. Those watches are no longer in production so it is not an apples to apples comparison. Kind of like comparing an early tourbillon to a Paul Newman Daytona (not quite but it’s early in FPJ history)

Re The journe vs Patek comparison if we are talking about a 5711 would this be an outlier? 2 years ago the 5726 could be had at a discount and sat unsold for way too long. If we are talking about many of Pateks other references, they are flat out poor performers.

Journe on the other hand is a design philosophy that I for one took time to grow into... as I type this I am enjoying my newest watch (thanks Tom) but also thinking how I miss the resonance on my wrist... I don’t think I have ever felt such an emotional connection about another watch; although of all the variety of watches I have had the pleasure of owning, the 5711 came closest.

Perhaps the most significant difference between the two brands are the numbers of production... how many others will have a Nautilus (ps just bumped into a guy w a 5712) vs a Chrono bleu?

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Old 22 February 2020, 10:47 AM   #85
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Don’t get me wrong guys. I want a journe badly. Can’t figure out which one that’s the problem.
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Old 22 February 2020, 10:52 AM   #86
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Yes!
More talk of how FPJ are overpriced ! Really want prices to come down on older out-of-production models so they are more affordable to me lol.


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I don’t think any are overpriced except the bleu. If anything they are wildly underpriced on the market. You’d be a damn fool to pay 40k for a CB when you could get a split seconds for 5-10k more. Or a centigraphe. Or an optimum or resonance for 15-20 more
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Old 22 February 2020, 11:50 AM   #87
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I don’t think any are overpriced except the bleu. If anything they are wildly underpriced on the market. You’d be a damn fool to pay 40k for a CB when you could get a split seconds for 5-10k more. Or a centigraphe. Or an optimum or resonance for 15-20 more


I was thinking on recent huge jumps in resonance prices , and signif increase in prices of 38mm or brass movement journes. 38mm journes have jumped at least $10k in the last 3 months .


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Old 22 February 2020, 01:37 PM   #88
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I was thinking on recent huge jumps in resonance prices , and signif increase in prices of 38mm or brass movement journes. 38mm journes have jumped at least $10k in the last 3 months .


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Said it before and I'll say it again...40mm FPJs wear large and he should go back to producing smaller watches. A partial draw of the CB is its 39mm size.
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Old 22 February 2020, 02:21 PM   #89
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I dig the switch to the 40mm case size.

I have average sized wrists, and still prefer larger watches over <39mm pieces. For me, the CB is the smallest I really like.

That said, I do have the Steel Tourbillon, which was made as a commemorative edition in 38mm to mark the end of the 38mm case size. I do dig it, just not as much as bigger ones.
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Old 22 February 2020, 02:22 PM   #90
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I was thinking on recent huge jumps in resonance prices , and signif increase in prices of 38mm or brass movement journes. 38mm journes have jumped at least $10k in the last 3 months .


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Yeah that’s honestly why I smell manipulation. When other items move like that in price it’s usually the result of some sort of publicity or wave of mass appeal.

We all know FPJ is special but I don’t see any clear genesis to this run.

Either journe is the only watchmaker with dress watches that are strong in the market or someone is playing geppetto.
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