Movement / Accuracy Questions

[jdp12199]

Hi all. I had a few questions regarding power reserve and how movements work.

1. My (2018)116610ln has the 3135 movement which has a 48 power reserve. Does this mean that when fully wound the watch will stop keeping time altogether approximately 48 after being put down and not moved? Does it go from keeping time accurately to just stopping?

Or will the watch run slower and slower as it gets closer to the 48 hour mark and then stop keeping time?

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I have been wearing my watch almost everyday for the past 4 weeks and decided to measure it's accuracy (sort of). I say sort of because of the way I decided to measure the accuracy, well, isn't 100% accurate. I hacked my seconds hand at the 59 second mark and when the time on my phone went to the next minute I pushed in the crown.

I was able to check the accuracy by comparing when the minute on my phone changed vs where the second hand was on my watch.

After 3 weeks it was almost almost dead on. When my seconds hands was almost exactly at the pip, the minute would change on my phone.

Then yesterday all of a sudden I went to check and the time changed on my phone when the second hand was close to the 55 min mark.

Almost overnight the watch lost close to 4 seconds. Which brings me to my next question.

2. What can cause such a drastic change in time keeping overnight? I have worn the watch everyday. I did however only wear the watch for about 7 hours the day prior to noticing the loss in accuracy by the watch. Is the reason for the loss of time perhaps because I did not wear the watch enough on the prior day?

Thanks in advance.

[HogwldFLTR]

I've heard that different places on the storage curve the accuracy fluctuates. I don't know if it dhanges only to losing time or not but that would seem to make sense. I'd try going back to your standard wearing habit and see if it goes back to normal. There is also a history with the older models of gaining and losing time depending on watch position during storage.

[saxo3]

(1) The power reserve is the amount of time it takes for a fully wound watch movement to unwind when not worn. The required energy is stored in the mainspring of the caliber. The watch timekeeping cannot be perfect until the movement stops (end of PR).

(2) The reason can be that the 3135 was not wound enough (only 7 hours worn). 3135 resting position affects timekeeping overnight, temperature changes also.

Do a full movement winding and use a simple smartphone app (e.g. Watch Tracker) for accuracy tracking, note the watch rest position overnight.

Last but not least, the 3135 is a very good movement!

[Tools]

It's more likely that your cell phone did a correction update.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Tools

It's more likely that your cell phone did a correction update.

Unlikely but not excluded.
Therefore my proposal of the watch tracker app which uses an atomic clock, the time difference to the phone clock is irrelevant.

[Feb_29]

I would do the test over again with the same condition. Then do the test by wounding the watch and let it run by not wearing it for two days and keep checking the accuracy. You may download one of the watch accuracy app to check it. I have WatchTracker app. Note, by laying watch down flat with the face up, it will gain seconds. By laying it vertically with crown up, it will loos seconds.
In my experience, I noticed that more it at the end of power reserve, the watch is loosing time at more accelerating pace.

[saxo3]

All your points are good except:

Originally Posted by Feb_29

By laying it vertically with crown up, it will loos seconds.

That is not a general rule because vertical (and horizontal) position rates depend on how the movement was regulated. A counterexample for my 3135 where crown up (3H) is not negative but 9 up (9 H), measured with a timegrapher.



This watch only loses time overnight in rest position 9H (crown down), in all other positions it gains time. Without a timegrapher, one can 'only' find out experimentally by changing rest position and measuring its effect (e.g. with Watch Tracker).

[Feb_29]

Originally Posted by saxo3

All your points are good except:
That is not a general rule because vertical (and horizontal) position rates depend on how the movement was regulated. A counterexample for my 3135 where crown up (3H) is not negative but 9up (9 H).

I own 3135, 3235, 3186, 3285 and 4130. I've done regulation for all of them and they all works the same way as per below instruction:

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Feb_29

I own 3135, 3235, 3186, 3285 and 4130. I've done regulation for all of them and they all works the same way as per below instruction:

Noted
And yet, not all movements respond to positional resting variations. There are still exceptions with no hard and fast rules.

Each watch needs to be assessed on it's individual characteristics.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Feb_29

I own 3135, 3235, 3186, 3285 and 4130. I've done regulation for all of them and they all works the same way as per below instruction:

Understood.
Do you have numbers in different rest positions for all listed calibers to share here? How do you measure?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Feb_29

I own 3135, 3235, 3186, 3285 and 4130. I've done regulation for all of them and they all works the same way as per below instruction:

of my 7 Rolexes 2 don't follow this rule.

[George58]

Originally Posted by Feb_29

I own 3135, 3235, 3186, 3285 and 4130. I've done regulation for all of them and they all works the same way as per below instruction:

this was written when rolex had the slower beat movements in their watches

[Feb_29]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Understood.
Do you have numbers in different rest positions for all listed calibers to share here? How do you measure?

I use WatchTracer App.

[Feb_29]

Originally Posted by George58

this was written when rolex had the slower beat movements in their watches

For 3135 has 28.800 bph since 1988. The instruction is after 1988. Like I said, all mentioned calibers/movements works as per instruction.

[Roddypeepa]

All of my watches run slightly slow. It’s incredibly hard to judge power as fully
Vs zero wind not a linear relationship plus you’d need a timefrapher and constant ambient temperature.

116610 is around the following

Dial up -2

Dial down -1

Crown down -2

Crown up -3

12 up -3

6 up +0.5

Real world about -2 to -3 spd on average on the wrist

Therefor it is impossible to regulate by position and I feel a free regulation is order (July 2020 Watch).

3235 is a bit less errratic but still on average is slow.

8800 in seamaster is even worse. Minus in all 6 when it’s rated 0 to +5. Was actually fine when brand new now at 2 years is awful.

There are 86400 sec in a day and as long as yours is consistent then it’s up to you. Rolex brag after casing and so, if it bothers you have it seen to.

You
Might find as it ages this changes and in parts of the world with big swing in seasonal temperature this has an even bigger effect.

Gravity clearly does have an effect but not as much as was once these case before modern lubes and manufacturing tolerances.


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[jdp12199]

I did leave the watch in my car for about 5 hours when golfing and it was hot to the touch when I put it back on. Maybe this affected the accuracy?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by jdp12199

I did leave the watch in my car for about 5 hours when golfing and it was hot to the touch when I put it back on. Maybe this affected the accuracy?

Potentially yes
The good news is that previous experience on my part suggests it's entirely transient and things should immediately return to normal when the watch cools down again.
I can say that I've been known to cook a watch occassionally in the manner you outlined and I've also left a watch out in the direct sun for a while where it was previously left in the shade with no permanent effects
The timekeeping today is the same as when they were new
In summary, it's not likely to be permanent

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by jdp12199

I did leave the watch in my car for about 5 hours when golfing and it was hot to the touch when I put it back on. Maybe this affected the accuracy?

Yes, temperature affects accuracy.

[TswaneNguni]

After 22 years in the Rolex game ,if there is one movement I would put my life on its the 3135.

3 weeks dead on isnt uncommon .

My 11 year old 3135 is now in for RSC spa treatment .1st service .
I doubt the 3235s will see a decade without servicing .