Underrated Two tone Daytona or Sky-Dweller?

[huncho]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

You maybe right, but for sure they're cheaper to get and strangely after owning one, I keep thinking to get more. They're gorgeous especially for 40+ guy like me


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i agree the best value is in two tone right now but their prices are still inflated due to the SS craze

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by Beantown sports

I do not know what you could be possibly investing in the last 2 years to lose 40% in the stock market. I can tell you that buying a Rolex will not solve this problem.

I was in the US options SPY index market betting on bull put. I remembered i decided to cut my loss on December 24th 2018 where SPY reached 2340 while i bet 2900 and it’s maturing in less than 30 days. My worst xmas eve ever.

I agree buying rolexes may not be profitable but at least it’s more stable and less risky than putting my money on Options, plus i can enjoy the rolexes everyday.




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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by huncho

i agree the best value is in two tone right now but their prices are still inflated due to the SS craze

Very true. My AD told me that the very same 116713 sold at around 8-9k usd last year but now he's comfortably selling at 11-12k because it's most popular than ever brother Batman keeps increasing the price on a quarterly basis


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[peterpl]

If you were a serious investor you would know buying in now is not a good time for ANY watch.

Watches became hot because of celebs and Instagram in the last few years. Its already hit the peak and the opportunity cost of it continuing to increase is not good. Its basically same thing as entering the property market at its peak and expecting it to double from there in a short period of time again (i/e) 3-4 years. It wont happen.

The capital gains have already been had by the guys who bought early. To buy in now and to then have them increase from todays gray prices another 100-200% I would not be betting any money on that happening.

In fact the watch market is cooling down. Havent you seen the 90% reduction in threads like yours in the last 3-4 months? We used to have these kinds of threads 10 or more daily.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by peterpl

If you were a serious investor you would know buying in now is not a good time for ANY watch.

Watches became hot because of celebs and Instagram in the last few years. Its already hit the peak and the opportunity cost of it continuing to increase is not good. Its basically same thing as entering the property market at its peak and expecting it to double from there in a short period of time again (i/e) 3-4 years. It wont happen.

The capital gains have already been had by the guys who bought early. To buy in now and to then have them increase from todays gray prices another 100-200% I would not be betting any money on that happening.

In fact the watch market is cooling down. Havent you seen the 90% reduction in threads like yours in the last 3-4 months? We used to have these kinds of threads 10 or more daily.

Yes I think you're right. The market for hot rolex products is in correction already. Prices have dropped at least 20% since the beginning of the year. However, those less 'popular' ones like the Explorer 2, YM and generally TT have held their prices relatively stable.

Again, please don't misunderstood my intention, I'm not investing in rolex or hoping to make double or triple, I'm just trying to diversify my assets while enjoying this watch collecting hobby.

Honestly, it's really hard just to think to sell ANY of my rolexes, unless I'm upgrading to another rolexes that I like more.

So in this sense, Rolex is NOT an investment as it's too difficult to let go


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[Setarip]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

I know that some of you can be turned off with my questions but please don't misunderstood my questions.

As mentioned, I love my rolexes and in fact I've owned 6 ie 16750 matt dial, 16570 polar, 116713, 116600, 126600 among others that I love and cherish.

I'm a business man (and I assume lots of you here in the forum are too) and i need to diversify my funds. I'm in the stock market already and as you all know, 2018/2019 are not very friendly to investors on the bull side. I lost like 30-40% of my fund there.

On the other hand, I've been watching my rolexes value grew especially in the past 3-4 years and I think it will continue to grow.

Now the reason I started this thread is to buy 'under-valued' rolexes that may have a stable increase in value in the future and I'm asking your opinions as I'm torn between those watches.

I hope I don't offend anyone here as I'm a rolex lover too and try to get the best value rolex at the moment with a potential 'future' legendary seed


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I know it appears to be an odd question for this forum...but before flaming this guy, look at his location. He’s in Indonesia. I don’t know the fluctuation of currency there, but I think he’s asking a legit asset preservation question to avoid devaluation of his currency base.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by Setarip

I know it appears to be an odd question for this forum...but before flaming this guy, look at his location. He’s in Indonesia. I don’t know the fluctuation of currency there, but I think he’s asking a legit asset preservation question to avoid devaluation of his currency base.

Thanks for your understanding Setarip. It is exactly what I'm trying to do. I tried investing here and there but probably at a bad timing. I tried to hold multiple currencies but in this uncertain world we're living in, even holding USD doesn't guarantee your money's worth, not to mention holding Indonesian rupiah.

I remembered in 1998, our currencies lost almost 80% of the value in matter of weeks.

Then I started buying and collecting Rolexes and glad to learn that the value is in fact very stable (some references even doubled / tripled) in value and most importantly, my rolexes give me this joy to wind, to clean and to rotate on the wrist everyday


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[huncho]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

Thanks for your understanding Setarip. It is exactly what I'm trying to do. I tried investing here and there but probably at a bad timing. I tried to hold multiple currencies but in this uncertain world we're living in, even holding USD doesn't guarantee your money's worth, not to mention holding Indonesian rupiah.

I remembered in 1998, our currencies lost almost 80% of the value in matter of weeks.

Then I started buying and collecting Rolexes and glad to learn that the value is in fact very stable (some references even doubled / tripled) in value and most importantly, my rolexes give me this joy to wind, to clean and to rotate on the wrist everyday


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its understandable where you're coming from. you get to buy something that you enjoy every day while it also being kind of a cash park. as mentioned above though now is probably the worst time to buy so i would probably wait it out a bit unless you actually want to grab something you really like

[csaltphoto]

Honestly, as a cash park, I would think about models that are no longer made that are in "collectible" condition, and might have been somewhat scarcer in the first place. New models, like the Daytona C, are subject to market perturbations that have nothing to do with either the intrinsic value of the piece or it's rarity. But take something like the 14060M's, 4 line, with B&P. Those have gone up about 50% in the last year (from about 6K to about 9K). Why? Who knows. But it probably has something to do with relative affordability and an interest to have something different/not made anymore/the whole nostalgia/vintage thing/etc. And just look at the prices of 4 digit subs.

So yeah, the older TT Daytonas, subs, explorers probably fit into this category. I would not think of recent models as a buy and hold kind of investment though.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by huncho

its understandable where you're coming from. you get to buy something that you enjoy every day while it also being kind of a cash park. as mentioned above though now is probably the worst time to buy so i would probably wait it out a bit unless you actually want to grab something you really like

Good point Huncho. I've personally never liked Daytona although I have to admit it's a beautiful watch and well-proportioned. However being no date is probably a big turn off for me, at least for now.

On the other hand, the sky dweller is in a lot of way Rolex's first and probably the most complicated to date, but the bezel is kinda 'killed' the sports status.

Maybe I should pass on these two and wait for something that I really liked. Have been thinking about parking my money in gold, silver and platinum but these 2 months their prices have soared like crazy too.

Maybe I should just wait for the red 1680. Hopefully i could find one available locally




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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

Honestly, as a cash park, I would think about models that are no longer made that are in "collectible" condition, and might have been somewhat scarcer in the first place. New models, like the Daytona C, are subject to market perturbations that have nothing to do with either the intrinsic value of the piece or it's rarity. But take something like the 14060M's, 4 line, with B&P. Those have gone up about 50% in the last year (from about 6K to about 9K). Why? Who knows. But it probably has something to do with relative affordability and an interest to have something different/not made anymore/the whole nostalgia/vintage thing/etc. And just look at the prices of 4 digit subs.

So yeah, the older TT Daytonas, subs, explorers probably fit into this category. I would not think of recent models as a buy and hold kind of investment though.

Yeah csaltphoto, exactly what I was thinking but for me, no date is not my cup of tea yet. I remembered buying the 214270 brand new and found out that I actually needed date on my watch. That's the only rolex I ever sold and I didn't regret it.

But I agree on your point in getting the vintage, not the new and hot model as they're so hyped up and we don't really know when the price will come crashing down

So out of the TT daytona and sky D, I think the first would be a safer bet


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[nachopc]

I don’t see anything wrong considering Rolex an investment, I bought my first Rolex 16610 in 1999 for less than 2400 Euros brand new. Today the value is 7000 Euros.
The world is changing and some people prefer to buy vintage cars, watches, etc.
Rolex is my passion no question about that, having said that I also like to buy things that gives value, many friends of mine buys Hublot for example and loose 30% of value next day...
Not for me thanks....

Don’t be so hard with this guy!


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[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by nachopc

I don’t see anything wrong considering Rolex an investment, I bought my first Rolex 16610 in 1999 for less than 2400 Euros brand new. Today the value is 7000 Euros.
The world is changing and some people prefer to buy vintage cars, watches, etc.
Rolex is my passion no question about that, having said that I also like to buy things that gives value, many friends of mine buys Hublot for example and loose 30% of value next day...
Not for me thanks....

Don’t be so hard with this guy!


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Spot on nachopc. Thanks. I'm actually collecting vintage consumer goods as they hold value much better than my other paper investments. I'm also into vintage hi end audio like BBC speakers LS3-5A (Rogers, Chartwell) that I bought 10 years ago for less than usd 1000 and now when I wanted to purchase another pair, I had to pay for usd 3500.

I'm changing my mentality now on putting my money into something that I can actually touch and enjoy while getting my money inflation free


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[Mad Hatter]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Go away.

+1

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by nachopc

I don’t see anything wrong considering Rolex an investment, I bought my first Rolex 16610 in 1999 for less than 2400 Euros brand new. Today the value is 7000 Euros.

The problem is the Op is viewing investments in the wrong way. He lost money in shares or houses or whatever but we dont know the history and maybe they bought in peak.

Your example of buying a Rolex in 1999 for 2400 and today its 7400 that is fine. It went up thats fine.

But I have a feeling if the Ops bought a house in 1999, today that house would be worth multiples of what he paid. That is a life changing amount of money and considered a REAL investment with cashflow + tax incentives that all come with it. (i/e) my very first investment property in Sydney was $180k. Today its worth $800k+. Do that 3-4 times and you can have a very very good life. Plus all that time I'm getting rental income + tax offsets. That is what I call an investment.

There is no rolex watch today especially a modern one that would provide a life changing amount of capital growth. In fact buying modern Rolex right now at gray pricing your almost certain to lose out.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by peterpl

The problem is the Op is viewing investments in the wrong way. He lost money in shares or houses or whatever but we dont know the history and maybe they bought in peak.

Your example of buying a Rolex in 1999 for 2400 and today its 7400 that is fine. It went up thats fine.

But I have a feeling if the Ops bought a house in 1999, today that house would be worth multiples of what he paid. That is a life changing amount of money and considered a REAL investment with cashflow + tax incentives that all come with it. (i/e) my very first investment property in Sydney was $180k. Today its worth $800k+. Do that 3-4 times and you can have a very very good life. Plus all that time I'm getting rental income + tax offsets. That is what I call an investment.

There is no rolex watch today especially a modern one that would provide a life changing amount of capital growth. In fact buying modern Rolex right now at gray pricing your almost certain to lose out.

Let me get this straight once again.

I don't make money from investments or properties. I make money from running my businesses.

I do however save the money I made into various diversified instruments and assets categories such as papers, precious stones/metals, arts and vintage consumer goods nowadays.

Do I expect a good life / income out of these savings? Not really as I have already have a good stream of income from my business.

Do I want to flip these assets and make money? Too much of a hassle and with Rolexes it's very tough especially to part with since you've somewhat grown attached to them.

Do I want my assets / savings to grow in value in the future? Definitely


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[vman]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

Alright I've had most, if not all my favorite sports Rolex collection.

I'm now buying for a 'possible' future investments in these 2 probably most underrated (undervalued) sports rolexes:

Good luck!

[impinth06]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

I know that some of you can be turned off with my questions but please don't misunderstood my questions.

As mentioned, I love my rolexes and in fact I've owned 6 ie 16750 matt dial, 16570 polar, 116713, 116600, 126600 among others that I love and cherish.

I'm a business man (and I assume lots of you here in the forum are too) and i need to diversify my funds. I'm in the stock market already and as you all know, 2018/2019 are not very friendly to investors on the bull side. I lost like 30-40% of my fund there.

On the other hand, I've been watching my rolexes value grew especially in the past 3-4 years and I think it will continue to grow.

Now the reason I started this thread is to buy 'under-valued' rolexes that may have a stable increase in value in the future and I'm asking your opinions as I'm torn between those watches.

I hope I don't offend anyone here as I'm a rolex lover too and try to get the best value rolex at the moment with a potential 'future' legendary seed


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OP should be buying short position against his own ”30 - 40%” loss position.

[razmspiele]

Buy gold.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by razmspiele

Buy gold.

They're not fun


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[bathducks123]

Originally Posted by razmspiele

Buy gold.

Seconded. More of a stable investment and you could wear it daily as well.

The whole rolex as an investment thing was due to luck!

Ppl that bought it before all this shortage was lucky and its not looking so good for ppl that starting to came in this Rolex scene.

Before this shortage most of Rolex sport models were abundant with AD giving out as much as 15% discounts on MRSP. It was the cold selling models that have a waiting list (like real waiting due to shipment waiting because the AD dint stock it).

As many have said, it is better to buy what u like to wear and enjoy it!

If the value goes up, cheers! If not, u still have an enjoyable collection, and the value RETENTION or Rolex sport models is still the best.. the worst case scenario would be losing 5-10% of what u paid for. I see it as a win-win

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by bathducks123

If the value goes up, cheers! If not, u still have an enjoyable collection, and the value RETENTION or Rolex sport models is still the best.. the worst case scenario would be losing 5-10% of what u paid for. I see it as a win-win

This is exactly why I was looking for daytona & sky D two tone which are still priced under their SS siblings.



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[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by huncho

tt will never be an investment

This

[bathducks123]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

This is exactly why I was looking for daytona & sky D two tone which are still priced under their SS siblings.



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If u like both, with a sense of investment in mind, get the Sky D, it is a meticulously complex and brilliant watch imho, the most complete watch in a sense of engineering with GMT, day-date-month, still retaining cyclops.

I might be biased since I like watches with a high degree of mechanical advancement and complexity. But if it comes down to both of those choices, I would definitely get Sky D, regardless TT or not.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by bathducks123

If u like both, with a sense of investment in mind, get the Sky D, it is a meticulously complex and brilliant watch imho, the most complete watch in a sense of engineering with GMT, day-date-month, still retaining cyclops.



I might be biased since I like watches with a high degree of mechanical advancement and complexity. But if it comes down to both of those choices, I would definitely get Sky D, regardless TT or not.

Yes that's what I like about Sky D, so complicated but only sells at the same price with a 12 Yo TT Daytona. Although I like how Daytona sits on my 7.5 inch wrist nicely, I'm always wondering if 42 sky D would sits even nicer on my wrist. I've never seen one in person.

Anyone with 7.5inch wrist have or have tried the Sky D? How does it compare to Daytona on the wrist?


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[seanneok11]

Lol first of all I feel that you do t know shit about watches. Seems like a kid posted this. Why in the hell would you switch your bezel? You have no clue on how this works. In short dont modify watches and always buy ss

[grimlock525]

It's posts like this that make me hope that the secondary-market values of these watches just crater at some point. True wealth is built over decades of intelligent long-term decisions, not trying to figure out how to squeeze out 200% returns over 2 years.

[nachopc]

Originally Posted by peterpl

The problem is the Op is viewing investments in the wrong way. He lost money in shares or houses or whatever but we dont know the history and maybe they bought in peak.

Your example of buying a Rolex in 1999 for 2400 and today its 7400 that is fine. It went up thats fine.

But I have a feeling if the Ops bought a house in 1999, today that house would be worth multiples of what he paid. That is a life changing amount of money and considered a REAL investment with cashflow + tax incentives that all come with it. (i/e) my very first investment property in Sydney was $180k. Today its worth $800k+. Do that 3-4 times and you can have a very very good life. Plus all that time I'm getting rental income + tax offsets. That is what I call an investment.

There is no rolex watch today especially a modern one that would provide a life changing amount of capital growth. In fact buying modern Rolex right now at gray pricing your almost certain to lose out.

I understand. We could ask the relatives of Paul Newman and his Daytona , just kidding.

What I was trying to say was that we spend money in so many silly things and Rolex when you buy retail allow you enjoy your watch and if you sell it always gives you a smile .

Have a great day Peter!


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[Xerxes77]

TT Sky Dweller black dial

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by Xerxes77

TT Sky Dweller black dial

I liked it too but unfortunately they're not many around here. I found one second hand last month but asking price was close to 20k. With that kind of money, there are many other choices available


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