Pretty sure I'm being scammed.

[rioc]

why dont claim to police or consummer group and tell her u are going to do it ?

[TPLGT]

OP, what's the status of this? I hope things got ironed out!

[hsfrank]

Please any update

[mastermixer]

nothing new, waiting on the Credit Card company to decide. Can take up to 75 days.

[waQstar]

Hey man, best of luck, I am thinking of this, when I receive a package I video tape the whole thing, paypal and eBay should require buyers to do that to substantiate their claim, seller does video, buyer does video, discussing same key points on both.
Be patient it will turn out good, and the crooks always get punished sooner or later, and if it doesn't end up in your favor, it means a much bigger loss was avoided by a smaller one.
Keep us updated.

[RolexPete32]

Good luck

[77T]

If PayPal was the processor, how does the card company gain standing in a product merchantability and implied warranty dispute?

She admits receiving the watch and now claims it is not as described, right?

[mastermixer]

Correct, claims not as described and did a chargeback. I dont know how the credit company gains staining, but paypal told me it is up to the credit card company now.

Originally Posted by 77T

If PayPal was the processor, how does the card company gain standing in a product merchantability and implied warranty dispute?

She admits receiving the watch and now claims it is not as described, right?

[Roma315]

I've had this happen, call paypal, call ur bank and/or CC company. Tell them what happened, this has happened 3-4xs to me and each time the bank takes care of it

[mastermixer]

Hey Guys,

Just for an update, unfortunately the credit card company sided with her so I am out the money. I am still working on something but it is pretty crazy how they can just ignore all the evidence. I dont even know what credit card company it is since paypal will not reveal or let me talk to them.

Robert

[Knappo 1307]

WOW, unbelievable. Can you take her to small claims court? Just makes no sense!!

[LuckyLex]

Definitely a sad day! Even with the overwhelming evidence, I'm surprised that they sided with her. I hope that there are other options available for you to fight this. Good luck friend.

Originally Posted by mastermixer

Hey Guys,

Just for an update, unfortunately the credit card company sided with her so I am out the money. I am still working on something but it is pretty crazy how they can just ignore all the evidence. I dont even know what credit card company it is since paypal will not reveal or let me talk to them.

Robert

[Passionata]

That s bad ,i hope she will return the same watch at least,if any.


Best
George

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[billnj]

I had a similar situation happen years ago with a car. Long story short, $2,000 PayPal deposit, guy claimed car had a problem that it didn't, usual feedback extortion.

PayPal sided with me, he did a credit card chargeback and won.

That was, in the end, enough to make a criminal case against him actually stick. This lady has likely dug herself a bigger hole.

I'm not a huge fan of thieves, logically I should have written the $2,000 off but I won on principle. It was also quite amusing to see a small town schoolteacher get arrested :)

Back to lurking.....

[TPLGT]

OP, you need to do something. You cannot let this bitch get you. This whole ordeal is a joke. I have learned a lesson from this: not do biz with Paypal and buy anything high in value. GL, my friend.

[conrail]

Originally Posted by TPLGT

OP, you need to do something. You cannot let this bitch get you. This whole ordeal is a joke. I have learned a lesson from this: not do biz with Paypal and buy anything high in value. GL, my friend.

x2

Unbelievable! Even with the weight of all your evidence, they side with this POS.

[Lgear080]

Considering the interstate nature of her fraud, wire fraud,
Theft / larceny - call the local FBI field office.

[TPLGT]

Originally Posted by Lgear080

Considering the interstate nature of her fraud, wire fraud,
Theft / larceny - call the local FBI field office.

GREAT idea! This stuff needs to be stopped!! Any decent detective would look at the evidence and piece it together.

[Gold93]

Don't sell anything on eBay you cant afford to give away. The rules are heavily weighted for the seller and their presumed claims. Between pay pal and eBay you have your work cut out hope you transferred the funds to your account before shipment. Regards

[crowncollection]

that is terrible news, all i can say is sorry man, these things should not happen to honest people.

[cajunron]

UNFRICKEN BELIEVABLE!!! Time for an attorney. (If I were you.) How can a credit card company be so blind to an obvious injustice? And now they are going to hide behind so called 'privacy laws'? Please let me know if I can do ANYTHING for you, Rob.

[Tony1]

Originally Posted by Lgear080

Considering the interstate nature of her fraud, wire fraud,
Theft / larceny - call the local FBI field office.

Very few cases are rezolved by them.
Usually, small scams are not even taked in consideration.

[nch209]

Originally Posted by mastermixer

Hey Guys,

Just for an update, unfortunately the credit card company sided with her so I am out the money. I am still working on something but it is pretty crazy how they can just ignore all the evidence. I dont even know what credit card company it is since paypal will not reveal or let me talk to them.

Robert

Get OUT! First I came across this... And I'm so sorry to hear of the scam... And even moreso she is getting away with it. Sends shivers down my spine as I can see this happening so easy. What a bummer... Please keep on it and be a persistent pain in her side! Hope this turns around for ya!!!

[bayerische]

This sucks!

She has dodged a few now, but usually in the end you get bitten by the big dogs!

[paultran]

Sorry to hear this Robert. I hate scammers!!!!

[Lgear080]

I think that the felony nature of the offense is more than
Interesting enough. We are talking about a well documented
Federal crime.

[mastermixer]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the responses, it is crazy but hopefully it ends well. I guess if anyone happens to be friends with any cops in Bristol CT or surrounding area please PM me.

I was thinking about it and also and as crazy as it is that the credit card company sided with them it is even crazier Paypal will not tell me what company it is or anything so I have no way of even trying to collect from the credit card company since I don't even know who they are.

[marzen]

This is crazy...i am really sorry to have read this. But I know karma is a bitch!

[Americandave]

Originally Posted by mastermixer

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the responses, it is crazy but hopefully it ends well. I guess if anyone happens to be friends with any cops in Bristol CT or surrounding area please PM me.

I was thinking about it and also and as crazy as it is that the credit card company sided with them it is even crazier Paypal will not tell me what company it is or anything so I have no way of even trying to collect from the credit card company since I don't even know who they are.

Well, then on what basis is PayPal taking your money? They already said you don't owe it according to PayPal. Why are they now billing your for someone else's chargeback dispute with them????

[Saundo]

Guys, as a practising lawyer (albeit an Australian one and not expert in consumer credit or merchant law) I have read this thread with a growing sense of incredulity. Hence I've decided to do some digging on the law because you need to know what your rights are if you want to take on PP and the CC company.

When you sign up to Paypal you enter into the Paypal User Agreement (PUA). You should all read it because it is the primary source of your rights and obligations when using Paypal. It's very lite re rights and heavy re obligations. In a nutshell PP is merely a clearing house between you and the buyer/you and the seller. As such it rarely owes you money but it can certainly take it out if your account in a whole host of circumstances. Disputes relevant to your PP account are dealt with under the The Seller and Buyer protection policies. Sounds like you initially won this, hence PP would be notionally obliged to release the funds or credit your account if it had previously refunded them to the Buyer. So far so good, and this seems to be what initially happened.

Now the real story starts. Under the PUA, when you nominate to be a Seller you automatically agree to accept payments funded from credit cards. You also automatically become bound by a Credit Entity Agreement with the various CC companies. You nominate PP to receive and disburse funds for you and deal with the CC company but the primary contractual relationship for these payments is between you and the CC company. This contract is effectively separate to and sits above the PUA. PP is a very interested party but that's it.

So, if a Buyer doesn't pay, then PP ON YOUR BEHALF seeks the money from the CC company. If a Buyer disputes a transaction via a chargeback process with its credit card company, the CC company (or more accurately, the bank that has issued the card) will take the money back from you via the account which PP MAINTAINS ON YOUR BEHALF. The PUA also provides for PP to do so. But in both cases you have no real rights against PP (other than, I assume, a right of reasonable administration by PP).

The CEA directly or more likely the Card Association Rules to which you are deemed to be bound by will set out the chargeback process and appeal rights. Most provide for a two stage review process, finally determined by the CC company. However I think you'll find there are further external arbitration rights under the Card Association Rules if you are dissatisfied with the CC company's decision.

Again, PP will act on your behalf during the two stage process. From what I can tell, your rights under the various CEAs with the different CC companies can be subtly different. What I can't tell, and what I struggle to accept, is that PP has any rights to withhold information from you that is related to the chargeback dispute. The dispute occurs under a contract to which you and the CC company are the contracting parties, not PP. PP is acting in your behalf, not their own etc etc. I can't see any confidentiality issues in PP providing you details of your own dispute (personal details about the card holder aside).

To use a phrase which may not translate into Ameriglish: PP is most likely having a lend of you.

At the very least I'd ask PP to provide you with all correspondence they've had with the CC company/issuing bank and detail what stage the chargeback process is at and what your rights are under the relevant CEA and Card Association Rules. You can then contact the CC company and seek to get engaged in the process directly. If PP says no, ask why and ask them to produce a letter from their in house counsel clearly stating the legal basis on which they are refusing to name names and provide details.

Cost will be an issue you'll have to address at some point, particularly if you need/want to engage an attorney. However you can still push this along on your own, remembering you should never underestimate the laxative effect of a bit of process knowledge when dealing with quasi bureaucratic blockages. If you sound like you know what you're talking about they will assume you do.

This is when a US attorney should weigh in (there must be at least one lurking on this forum somewhere judging by the hourly charge out rates we are regularly invoiced when engaging US counsel) to correct or supplement the above.

Looking forward to reading about a positive resolution.