Rolex v Grand Seiko?

[Judge]

This is actually a Beautiful watch.

[pistebasher]

Originally Posted by poweredbyjae

IMHO GS case work / dial at least on par or arguably superior than Rolex.

Bracelet - all day every day Rolex.

This is exactly my experience. The polishing and finish on a GS rivals or surpasses a Patek or an AP, never mind a Rolex, but I actually thought the bracelet on my GS was an aftermarket copy before comparing it in the Seiko boutique in Knightsbridge. Nowhere near the quality of the watch head. If buying a GS again I would go for a strap.

[Cambo]

Hand painted lacquered dial, hand painted numerals (in platinum dust) finely polished rose gold case…what’s not to like, or at least (as a WIS) appreciate? If you have the time or inclination, check out GS’s artistry.

Edit. God I apologize for my ugly thumbnail.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JohnGingerwood]

I think GS is on the same level as Rolex. People have a hard time comparing Rolex the watch because they are entranced by the brand.

[hambone1983]

Originally Posted by Sothy

I dispute the notion that Grand Seiko gives better values outside of its “base” line up. This was the case in the past, but at present, a GS diver (saturation model) costs are in line with a Sea Dweller’s. A GS 18k watch is more expensive than a Rolex 18k watch. Did you see the price of its platinum dress watches as of late? 18k/platinum GS are at Lange pricing…

I love Seiko, and I’m probably waiting more for a GMT dress model with more than 30m of water resistance more than anything else. Well, GS’s precious metal pricing too.

absolutely! They are tits deep in the limited edition thing, with the absurd pricing to go with it. I mean, a platinum watch with zero complications and a plain Jane stick dial lists for $103,000. Limited to 50 pieces, Hard to find that many idiots I guess.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Lightsped

Realize this is a Rolex forum, and all of my watches are Rolex. Still with the craziness going on with Rolex, I find myself looking at other brands.

Does anyone have a Grand Seiko Heritage edition? How do they compare quality wise to a Rolex OP (or similar)? Are they as durable? What's the deal with Spring Drive? Does Grand Seiko have as cool of a history as Rolex?

Spring drive is neither fish nor fowl, so it brings nothing to the table except novelty.
The typical Spring drive power reserve indicator is best when it's located at the back of the watch. I believe they stuck it on the dial to diffentiate it from other watch technologies and it goes along with the novelty factor

I can say that I have one GS, it's an sbgw253 which is my dedicated manual wind dress watch on a strap.
IMO, no Rolex in this segment can compare to it on any level as a stand alone dress watch, but I am also embracing manual winds more as I grow older because I enjoy the simplicity of it all.
The 9S64 movement is reported to be robust.

I am down to 2 Rolex divers and I believe I'm done with Rolex. As they're both DSSD's I can say that I don't think GS can compare with a 116660 DSSD on any level. Especially where the DSSD bracelet is concerned

Where the jury is out is with regard to serving.
The Rolex watches give access to a first class customer service model that's operating on a global level.
Where I live, my GS will automatically be sent back to Japan for any work that's required. How that works out is yet to be determined.
If it's as stellar as my experience with sending a Rolex to Geneva, then I'll be very happy indeed

Experience at the point of sale is very different as well and largely in accordance with expectations.

[denmanproject]

Rolex = unmatched brand recognition, value retention, rock solid reliability and classic looks

GS = higher end finishing, insane dial work, value for $ off the charts

Both are great

[pug208]

I own 5 Rolex. They are good watches. I used to own a GS chronograph, a very good watch with GMT but it is a bit large for my wrist. It was sold and now I own a SBGE257.
Grand Seiko churn out a number of watches and three different lines. Some have amazing dials, some are priced too aggressively. The SBGE257 or blue or black in my opinion is the best value.

There is no metal ring between the glass and the ceramic bezel. Some other SBGEXXX has the metal ring and that can be easily scratched. The bracelet is not the best compared to Rolex but a leap in improvement. I particularly like the centre link near the end lug makes the bracelet more 3 dimensional. It is higher than the side columns.
The end lugs are brushed unlike some Heritage models which are polished which makes a single scratch ruining the overall perfection of the watch.
Some comment on the lumes, I have found that is a big improvement. You can now see the time in complete darkness, in a discrete way.
The power reserve indicator is “love” or “hate”. There is also an “indifference”. I am indifferent. I do not see that fits very well to the overall design of the dial. I see it as a complication to show the power reserve.
The clasp could have been better manufactured. The edges are a bit sharp.
The extension feature could also be better designed but this is unlike its big brother, the diving watch. The extension itself is an improvement for this line.
I used to have a SBGM029, fiddling the bracelet to fit perfectly was a pain. There is simply no micro holes to adjust the length. There are still a lot of “Heritage” do not have the adjustment feature.
The GMT hand is easy to read compared to my Rolex GMT (Batman). Maybe the little triangle is too small or my eyesight has deteriorated as I age.
Finally, its thickness which is slightly thicker than a Rolex Milgauss. A little bit thinner will be great. It does not bother that much. It is a sports watch not a dress watch.

I do not need to talk about accuracy. My Rolex Explorer 1 is however just as accurate. The pros and cons, or Rolex vs Grand Seiko? They are different watches. When there is shortage in Rolex, pricing in grey markets is insane. It is unfair to compare the two brands.
Using the AD pricing to make a comparison, Rolex probably still have the upper hand. Cos there isn’t much in a Rolex watch one can complain about. For a Grand Seiko, one really has to pick, “try it on” may not be enough, one needs to live with it for a week or so to see the flaws in an almost perfectly presented watch.

All in all, the SBGE257 is very good value if one is looking for a daily watch or wear it when you travel. It is discrete and does not shout. Forget about the 20 Bar if you really want to go scuba diving. Other than that, you can wear it almost anywhere. To me, this trio from GS is close to perfect.

[7enderbender]

GS has some very interesting pieces as far as technology and execution goes. The spring drive watches for instance are their own thing and tell their own story. Not something I’d buy as part of a very small collection or as a single everyday watch (biased towards Swiss history with that). I’d add one to a good sized collection and after having acquired my personal favorites. Probably one of the quintessential understatement watches which is cool in and by itself.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by subprimero

Grand Seiko pros: advanced engineering, beautiful finish, good value, available.

Grand Seiko cons: spotty USA customer service, no commitment to long term parts availability, unimaginative styling.

Spring Drive: either the best of both mechanical and quartz watches combined or a complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Take your pick.

With regard to long term parts availability, I believe GS has sufficient commitment to service movements for the foreseeable future.
I keep hearing different things about that as well, but I believe I have seen it stated to be as long as 35 years after production ceases

Spring drive is a curious thing.
It's more accurate and stable than mechanical escapement, but it's not as accurate as Quartz. So what's the point?
I believe if one wants accuracy above all else then regular servicing and a new battery when it goes flat(as a forcing function) is the best solution
If one enjoys the idea of the mechanics, then simply go with a mechanical escapement and be done with it along with timely service intervals
Besides, GS seemingly have an interesting new escapement design which may prove to be great

[7enderbender]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Where the jury is out is with regard to serving.
The Rolex watches give access to a first class customer service model that's operating on a global level.
Where I live, my GS will automatically be sent back to Japan for any work that's required. How that works out is yet to be determined.
If it's as stellar as my experience with sending a Rolex to Geneva, then I'll be very happy indeed

.

I didn’t know that. That’s actually another plus for GS. As somebody who lives in the US I wish there was an easy way like this to get a watch serviced in its country of origin/the manufacturer. Watch service and customer service seems to be a problem here quite often. My Rolex hasn’t been out to the RSC yet. But after communicating with local ADs I know that I will not set foot in there again and deal with RSC Dallas directly (seems to be the best bet for US customers).
Going through another horror story right now with my wife’s Omega Constellation that apparently was butchered by one of their official subcontractors. Should’ve sent it to Switzerland like I did with my Speedmaster a few times over the years (always top notch).
So dealers sending them to GS Japan sounds good to me.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Kinnakeet

It’s been my experience after attending my share of events that the average GS wearer has much more knowledge of watches and is more secure in their purchases than the average Rolex wearer.

Perhaps you are right
I don't go to events these days, especially with C19 and all that goes with it so I wouldn't be able to comment.

When I picked up my sbgw253 I was pleased they had removed the Seiko branding from the dial.
I always thought it was superfluous having it on there and cluttered things on the dial unnecessarily whilst cheapening the watch.
Let's face it, a Seiko is on a lower tier just as GS is on a lower tier to Credor.
Am I an insecure watch snob, or a true WIS?
Hopefully neither, as simply speaking I know what I like and have an eye for details

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by 7enderbender

I didn’t know that. That’s actually another plus for GS. As somebody who lives in the US I wish there was an easy way like this to get a watch serviced in its country of origin/the manufacturer. Watch service and customer service seems to be a problem here quite often. My Rolex hasn’t been out to the RSC yet. But after communicating with local ADs I know that I will not set foot in there again and deal with RSC Dallas directly (seems to be the best bet for US customers).
Going through another horror story right now with my wife’s Omega Constellation that apparently was butchered by one of their official subcontractors. Should’ve sent it to Switzerland like I did with my Speedmaster a few times over the years (always top notch).
So dealers sending them to GS Japan sounds good to me.

God Omega
I've seen too many service problems to have a lot of confidence, but it hasn't stopped me from having 2 of them.
The 1861 speedy I expect will be straight forward.
The early co-axial i have has been to an independent once and is seemingly fine but I may chance it on an Omega service next time.

There are great Omega independents around the world.

Let's get back on topic before this thread goes pear shaped

[adnan]

Originally Posted by Lightsped

Realize this is a Rolex forum, and all of my watches are Rolex. Still with the craziness going on with Rolex, I find myself looking at other brands.

Does anyone have a Grand Seiko Heritage edition? How do they compare quality wise to a Rolex OP (or similar)? Are they as durable? What's the deal with Spring Drive? Does Grand Seiko have as cool of a history as Rolex?

OP, I see you're in GA. If in the Atlanta, checkout Mayor's in Avalon. Probably the biggest selection of GS's available anywhere in the US. It's informative to handle side by side with the Tudors in the next showcase over.

I've been a GS fan on and off for 15 years, and have one incoming right now. At current prices, I'm not sure they're a particularly better value than an Omega or something. (it's generally pointless to talk about "value" in this hobby anyway). The current hi-beat movement 9S85, is fantastic, but I don't believe it's on the level of what you'd find in a Rolex (no freesprung balance, etc). This is remedied in the 9SA5, but those only seem to be appearing in the $10k watches.

I think with GS, you need to see if the "whole package", their approach to watchmaking appeals to you. I personally would get bored pretty quickly if polishing of the hour markers and sides of the cases were the sole selling points (they are not!).

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by adnan

OP, I see you're in GA. If in the Atlanta, checkout Mayor's in Avalon. Probably the biggest selection of GS's available anywhere in the US. It's informative to handle side by side with the Tudors in the next showcase over.

I'll second that. Lots of GS there.

[subprimero]

Originally Posted by 7enderbender

I didn’t know that. That’s actually another plus for GS. As somebody who lives in the US I wish there was an easy way like this to get a watch serviced in its country of origin/the manufacturer. Watch service and customer service seems to be a problem here quite often. My Rolex hasn’t been out to the RSC yet. But after communicating with local ADs I know that I will not set foot in there again and deal with RSC Dallas directly (seems to be the best bet for US customers).
Going through another horror story right now with my wife’s Omega Constellation that apparently was butchered by one of their official subcontractors. Should’ve sent it to Switzerland like I did with my Speedmaster a few times over the years (always top notch).
So dealers sending them to GS Japan sounds good to me.

My understanding is that, for USA GS owners, only the most complex references are sent to Japan. Most references are now serviced in NJ. Some owners are requesting that their watches be polished (zaratsu), which can only be done in Japan, to avoid the US service center.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by subprimero

My understanding is that, for USA GS owners, only the most complex references are sent to Japan. Most references are now serviced in NJ. Some owners are requesting that their watches be polished (zaratsu), which can only be done in Japan, to avoid the US service center.

My SGBE201 GMT Spring Drive was serviced in NJ for an issue with the jumping hour hand. Took about 4 weeks.

[Mike507]

Double post.

[Mike507]

I really want to love grand Seiko, as their dials are awesome and I always hear great things about the quality.

But every time I try one on they just seem to be bigger and thicker than they need to be. Who wants a 12mm thick dress watch.

And I always find that the bracelets just don't look like they match the case.

[pistebasher]

Originally Posted by Mike507

I really want to love grand Seiko, as their dials are awesome and I always hear great things about the quality.

But every time I try one on they just seem to be bigger and thicker than they need to be. Who wants a 12mm thick dress watch.

And I always find that the bracelets just don't look like they match the case.

There are some great photos in this thread illustrating your last point. The gaps between the lugs and the bracelet are startlingly large compared to a Rolex, even a vintage one. You'd have a hard time fitting a single human hair between the lug of a modern Datejust and its bracelet by contrast. It's almost like the team in charge of the stunning watch heads are not linking up with the bracelet team who have a more "that'll do" attitude.

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by Mike507

I really want to love grand Seiko, as their dials are awesome and I always hear great things about the quality.

But every time I try one on they just seem to be bigger and thicker than they need to be. Who wants a 12mm thick dress watch.

And I always find that the bracelets just don't look like they match the case.

That's my issue with GS, they are too thick (generally). I want to love the SBGM221 (GMT) but at 13.7mm thick?? I've seen it in person, tried it on. It's a gorgeous watch, but just too thick for my wrist.

[Tanalasta]

Originally Posted by gnuyork

That's my issue with GS, they are too thick (generally). I want to love the SBGM221 (GMT) but at 13.7mm thick?? I've seen it in person, tried it on. It's a gorgeous watch, but just too thick for my wrist.

Have you seen the newer 9R31 movement watches? Manual wind ; Power reserve on the reverse to leave the dial clean. Anticipating there will be further releases I the SBGY line-out over the next 12 months.

[dottore]

I don’t like the sword hands, I don't like the bracelets, and I don't like the double branding on the dial. On some models there is SEIKO and GRAND SEIKO on the dial.
I own a vintage SEIKO Chrono with jubilee bracelet.

[Cru Jones]

Interesting to read multiple comments on "double branding" being a problem on GS dials....

I know someone else who is guilty of this. VERY guilty.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Interesting to read multiple comments on "double branding" being a problem on GS dials....

I know someone else who is guilty of this. VERY guilty.

^ ^

I think its the double branding, but rather that it says, in one form or another "Seiko"

People will make up all sorts of excuses not to like Grand Seiko, rather than admit snobbishness towards that name, and the frightful notion that people might think they are wearing a cheap watch...

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by Tanalasta

Have you seen the newer 9R31 movement watches? Manual wind ; Power reserve on the reverse to leave the dial clean. Anticipating there will be further releases I the SBGY line-out over the next 12 months.

Not in person, but I have seen them online/forums.

[swish77]

I've owned Rolexes for four decades (I have a lot, vintage and modern), and I've gotten into Grand Seiko over the last two years, in part because I have a GS Boutique a 5-minute walk from my office and I can see every model all the time (and I do). I've owned/own several GS watches.

Here's my main take on this debate:

Rolex rules the watch market with classic but somewhat conservative (aka sometimes boring) watches that are built like tanks. They're very special, for whatever reason, and they have an unmatched history and marketing machine, coupled with a buying frenzy created by genius supply-demand shenanigans.

Grand Seiko has the best dials AND cases in the watch industry. Yes, I said it. The quality, finish and design are insane, arguably "better" than Rolex. They're the most interesting, innovative and funky, with super-cool Japanese aesthetics that reference lakes, mountains, cherry blossoms, etc ... No other brand does this. Many of the watches are stunningly beautiful, a description I'd never give to Rolex, which makes solid handsome watches, but that's it.

GS movements are also more special and interesting. And can we stop equating Spring Drives with quartz movements? They're completely different. For starters, there is no battery in an SD.

The GS bracelets could/should be better, but I'm someone who considers bracelets almost like tires on a car. I swap them out a lot, and I love straps, so that issue is really a non-issue for me.

Lastly, unless someone dislikes how virtually ALL watch companies brand their timepieces, stop picking on Grand Seiko. For example, I've never heard anyone complain about Audemars Piguet, and they do the exact same thing on their dials, with the "AP" logo atop "Audemars Piguet."

P.S. All Grand Seikos in the U.S. can be serviced by the dedicated GS service center in New Jersey. They do not need to be sent back to Japan.

Originally Posted by subprimero

Grand Seiko cons: spotty USA customer service, no commitment to long term parts availability, unimaginative styling.

Many things can be said about GS watches, and some guys just don't like them for whatever reason, but you cannot say their styling is "unimaginative." In fact, I'd argue GS design/styling is THE most imaginative in the industry. Who else would design a dial to look like white birch trees in a forest?

[Cambo]

Originally Posted by swish77

I've owned Rolexes for four decades (I have a lot, vintage and modern), and I've gotten into Grand Seiko over the last two years, in part because I have a GS Boutique a 5-minute walk from my office and I can see every model all the time (and I do). I've owned/own several GS watches.

Here's my main take on this debate:

Rolex rules the watch market with classic but somewhat conservative (aka sometimes boring) watches that are built like tanks. They're very special, for whatever reason, and they have an unmatched history and marketing machine, coupled with a buying frenzy created by genius supply-demand shenanigans.

Grand Seiko has the best dials AND cases in the watch industry. Yes, I said it. The quality, finish and design are insane, arguably "better" than Rolex. They're the most interesting, innovative and funky, with super-cool Japanese aesthetics that reference lakes, mountains, cherry blossoms, etc ... No other brand does this. Many of the watches are stunningly beautiful, a description I'd never give to Rolex, which makes solid handsome watches, but that's it.

GS movements are also more special and interesting. And can we stop equating Spring Drives with quartz movements? They're completely different. For starters, there is no battery in an SD.

The GS bracelets could/should be better, but I'm someone who considers bracelets almost like tires on a car. I swap them out a lot, and I love straps, so that issue is really a non-issue for me.

Lastly, unless someone dislikes how virtually ALL watch companies brand their timepieces, stop picking on Grand Seiko. For example, I've never heard anyone complain about Audemars Piguet, and they do the exact same thing on their dials, with the "AP" logo atop "Audemars Piguet."

P.S. All Grand Seikos in the U.S. can be serviced by the dedicated GS service center in New Jersey. They do not need to be sent back to Japan.



Many things can be said about GS watches, and some guys just don't like them for whatever reason, but you cannot say their styling is "unimaginative." In fact, I'd argue GS design/styling is THE most imaginative in the industry. Who else would design a dial to look like white birch trees in a forest?

Well said

[Tbonewalk]

wow, you took a great picture of this watch, I think I owned it in a different dial, I think mine was champagne, it kind of changed colors... yes, great watch and certainly up there with and better than many Rolexs that I have owned...

trying to delete, this is in the wrong place, a lil out of practice...

[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by samson66

I own a SBGA001 and love it. I also own Rolex, Tudor, Omega. They can totally coexist in a collection. IMO GS does a better dial, hands, indices, and case polishing than Rolex. Rolex makes a much better bracelet and more solid feeling case/bracelet and more timeless designs in general. Watch some videos on spring drive. It's a fascinating technology and will get you hooked. You can pick up a used heritage model in the $3500-$5000 range. Rolex doesn't come near GS on bang for the buck. But Rolex is the crown and people place value on Rolex that they do not on GS. To the outside world your "Grand" Seiko is simply a Seiko. If that bothers you don't get it. If you buy a watch for YOU Grand Seiko makes a really nice product.

Find me a Rolex that can touch this dial

here is mine, champagne dial. You got a super picture here of yours! An impressive watch, that money doesn't go far in the Rolex world... this blows away many Rolex models...