Hello, and some opinions please...'53 bubbleback

[Falstaff]

Hi,

New user here (long-time reader). Could I get some opinions please on the pitting in this 53 bubble-back movement (thinking of buying this....lots of warning signs...pulled from Ebay, supposedly serviced but no proof/parts/name/history....bracelet appears later....folded link).

I've read the various great threads on pitting/passivity/mellurgy etc. A professional repairer I contacted for a free view (based only on pics) said to stay away, and he wouldn't take it on to examine/dissassemble it, given how corroded the movenent and winder casing were, alone.

Seller (who I have no reason to believe, or doubt) says it runs to +1 min/week which sounds pretty good (if true...). I've yet to see it in person...reasonable distance.

Before I discuss price or show the dial (lume and hand corrison, but not terrible...watch supposedly original and untouched...hard to square with being serviced) what does the panel think?

Any/all opinions welcome from a newbie. First thing is, would this level of pitting scare you off at any price...? (it's not being given away, but I like the overall patina)

Thanks

[Falstaff]

I wouldn't usually bump this so soon, but have to decide whether to buy it, or walk away (my current thinking) so any and all thoughts appreciated, even if you're not a specialist....

[tamiya]

Nice survivor! Doesn't look too bad tbh... innards got damp & got put away wet? Rotor & plate could be taken off to reveal the guts, but if they can trustwhorthily say it's tracking time pretty ok then I'd be optimistic there's nothing too broken underneath.

Could make a good occasional driver but if you're wanting to restore to concours standard you should look elsewhere.

[offrdmania]

Also, if I recall, a bracelet with 357 end links came from a later Tudor prince.

[MorningTundra]

It could be put right if the face is nice and the price is right. Can we see the front?


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[Falstaff]

Appreciate the comments....yes, I had the bracelet pegged as 67-ish after some help...

See front (the main reason I'm interested)...seller says it's untouched. Seller is firm at 1100ukp....I've seen much better go for not much more on Ebay with known seller, full service and guarantee, and what I'd call take-a-chance at 700ukp-800ukp. Ten there's the collector bubblebacks at 1500-3000 ukp+

I don't mind spending more provided the internals are good. But these obviously aren't great. The dialclose-ups I have show a missing lumen dot or two,and quite corroded hands. I have a thing for original patina (whether it be '60s Feder guitars or 50s/60s VW splitscreens)...no interested in modern Rolex (yet). It's also been polished...a lot by the looks of it...?

I wouldn't buy to restore, not fan of super shiney...but use as-is bar the odd service.

Seller says time-keeping is accurate to 1 min/week, but I can't verify this without taking the plunge, after which it's too late.

I have years in old amp/mics/guitars (but not Rolex nor stainless steel) and the rule of thumb is: if it looks bad on the outside, it's usually a whole lot worse on the inside...

On with the show:

[Falstaff]

I'veposted a pic of the front but it's waiting approval. Meanwhile I have tomake a decision so I'll describe the face in the meantime....white dial looks not too badly patina'd, just nicely faded...with silver coloured triangle pointers with lume inserts at 3/6/9...theluem dots fairly darkly discoloured,and one or two pretty much fallen away. Hands are 'sword' shape, thickening towards the end before a sharp point, corroded, lume same as dots. Wwiring looks usual and fairly clear, crystal ok, not too bad, coronet is the thick stick-on-type...?

Case and bracelet obviously polished a lot way back, since scratched and showing obvious signs of wear - I dont mind this look. Have been advised bracelet has fair amount of stretch in it.

Any use...? I'm still very much 50/50 but have crept up to seller's asking price of 1100 after offering 1000. I'm not after a bargain or investment as such, just a watch that I like the look of at a reasonable price.

What scares me is the pitting....I know a little bit about metallurgy but nothing in this field...I've read all the steel-type threads,but find any conclusion hard to draw from these pics...and they're all I've got to go on, sadly.

[Mark020]

Servicing a watch like this can cost serious money if you need certain parts...

[Falstaff]

Ok, what sort of amounts....? I'm not interested in a money-pit...

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Falstaff

Ok, what sort of amounts....? I'm not interested in a money-pit...

What sort of terms is the seller asking? Money back inspection period? Any shipping or duty on top?

Personally I'd take a chance on 1100 quid and expect the same again on service and parts... but then I'm a sucker that allows my heart to rule my head.

Anything from 1953 is going to be imperfect and need work and 1100 quid doesn't buy much in the Rlx world these days.

While the pitting isn't reversible, it's unlikely to crumble on your wrist. Likely, this watch will still outlive you either in your wrist or someone else's.


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[Falstaff]

Seller is a couple of hours away so no duty or shipping issues etc...just petrol. Doesn't seem to be offering anything.When I asked about the time-keeping just gave me his word it's fine, like the servicing etc. Nothing to back any of it up apart from the 'I'm an honest guy,my dad collects vintage watches...' (hey, I know what we're thinking)

Thing is I'm not now in a position to drop 2200ukp on one of these....and at that price I'd buy a much better example with no unknowns, seen a few....then again, maybe I should just keep looking...there was a nice honeycomb 60 semi-bubbleback,serviced with guaranteed that went for £1321 on Ebay recently, and I trusted the seller.

Heart and head....yeah, have let those two battle it out for years, but these days it has to be worth the money, or not less than I paid for it all in, just in case...

MorningTundra, thanks for dropping me a line btw...

[tamiya]

Looks like fair value for a gorilla's squid

If it's ticking it might only need a flush & oil change, I doubt you'd bother doing that thru an RSC. Your local indy should be able to work on it, hopefully don't need to replace parts... serviceable parts getting hard to find in the wild, so I'm told.

Those face details & hands might be gold? Might not be corrosion but mold, could clean off very nicely with minimum effort.

Would make a very nice ratrod but wouldn't be economically worthwhile to refurbish to showroom standard.

[Sundaydriver]

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...6O6kDpiAzwxnLj

I have a 6085 circa 1950 bubble back and I'm having a really hard time getting it serviced in the states. Two AD's and one independent watch maker wouldn't touch it. In another tread here I was told that the only way to get it serviced was to send it to Rolex Geneve.

My watch is almost the same as yours but has the 14k case, back and crown.

Ill try to post a pic but I don't know for sure how to post a pic yet.

[Falstaff]

Tamiya said:

Looks like fair value for a gorilla's squid

Is this Cockney slang or something?... (never heard this one)

SundayDriver...great find....movement looks in far better condition than the one I'm thinking of...your link half works...topost pics just upload to Photobucket...go to Library, use the drop-down menu on the pic, choose Share, copy the text, and paste when clicking the picture icon on this board....(not available in Quick Reply, needs Advanced)

Don't think the hands/positions are gold...? I like the patina look on it, would not restore the dial unless unless absolutely necessary....?

I guess we're in take-a-risk territory, though seller has gone a bit quiet anyhow, so may be off. He may not have liked me asking opinions here? Dunno....

Good to hear opinions though, I spoke to my local Rolex main dealer this morning, and sending a 53 off sounds like a 3-4 month wait and a shed-load of cash....might be better look at what's for sale on this forum....doens't have to be bubbleback...plain-jane 1603 DJ with Jubilee bracelet from the late 60/70s would be nice.

Opinions still welcome though. Great to get different views.

[Sundaydriver]

Originally Posted by Falstaff

Tamiya said:



Is this Cockney slang or something?... (never heard this one)

SundayDriver...great find....movement looks in far better condition than the one I'm thinking of...your link half works...topost pics just upload to Photobucket...go to Library, use the drop-down menu on the pic, choose Share, copy the text, and paste when clicking the picture icon on this board....(not available in Quick Reply, needs Advanced)

Don't think the hands/positions are gold...? I like the patina look on it, would not restore the dial unless unless absolutely necessary....?

I guess we're in take-a-risk territory, though seller has gone a bit quiet anyhow, so may be off. He may not have liked me asking opinions here? Dunno....

Good to hear opinions though, I spoke to my local Rolex main dealer this morning, and sending a 53 off sounds like a 3-4 month wait and a shed-load of cash....might be better look at what's for sale on this forum....doens't have to be bubbleback...plain-jane 1603 DJ with Jubilee bracelet from the late 60/70s would be nice.

Opinions still welcome though. Great to get different views.

Thank you for the posting help!!

It's a real bummer that Rolex doesn't have an ample supply of parts for these watches. A real shame. JMHO.

[Falstaff]

I don't suppose there's that much call to keep inventory this old, compared to more recent demands, in terms of sheer output. And old parts don't always mean good parts...

In the vintage amp world we simply rely on good service technicians, and loft and workshop finds...but the web and the money-aspect have meant that the fakers have kept pace, so it's a bear-fight between the honest nd dis-honest essentially. All collectible worth good money have similar issues, I think. Plus, the companies themselves have changed hugely. I have zero interest in modern amps/guitarsfor many reasons...Rolex, I dont know, but the showroom I was this morning was in full-bling mode, rather than classic, understated etc....

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Falstaff

Seller is a couple of hours away so no duty or shipping issues etc...just petrol. Doesn't seem to be offering anything.When I asked about the time-keeping just gave me his word it's fine, like the servicing etc. Nothing to back any of it up apart from the 'I'm an honest guy,my dad collects vintage watches...' (hey, I know what we're thinking)

Thing is I'm not now in a position to drop 2200ukp on one of these....and at that price I'd buy a much better example with no unknowns, seen a few....then again, maybe I should just keep looking...there was a nice honeycomb 60 semi-bubbleback,serviced with guaranteed that went for £1321 on Ebay recently, and I trusted the seller.

Heart and head....yeah, have let those two battle it out for years, but these days it has to be worth the money, or not less than I paid for it all in, just in case...

MorningTundra, thanks for dropping me a line btw...

You wouldn't have to spend any service money if it's running. Could be an expense you defer for future years.

Listen to your instincts... if it's not feeling right, move on. If you don't have the disposable income don't stretch yourself.


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[Falstaff]

MorningTundra...you sound exactly like my conscience....!

Im swinging back in favour but if the seller has gone dead, not much I can do....I'm easy either way...

[R.W.T.]

If you don't know the service history....you need to have it serviced. 2 critical areas in this watch. The rotor axle - rotor axle spring assembly and the double clutching spring that connects the ratchet wheel to the autowind. No lubrication...the legs break on the springs. An original double spring will cost you 75.00-100.00 if you can find one. Aftermarket on this part is tolerable...not great.

The rotor axle is 275.00 used in the wild.

I have no idea what currency you are talking about.

The watch looks very decent and the movement looks reasonably clean.

The "dampness"...? The spacer ring is a nickel plated brass and they are more often than not funky. The movement appears typical for the era. Some are just better than others. If the screws on the autowind are any indication the base movement is likely very very nice. Even the casing screws which are usually

boogered are very nice condition. This level of moisture intrusion is extremely minor on this era of watch. The case has virtually no corrosion. The little bit of grunge on the rotor...this is not an issue. The spots on the spacer ring...it's actually very clean...usually they are missing half the plating and scratched to bits.

This is a very nice watch to see open. Don't be scared off by these things.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by Sundaydriver

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...6O6kDpiAzwxnLj

I have a 6085 circa 1950 bubble back and I'm having a really hard time getting it serviced in the states. Two AD's and one independent watch maker wouldn't touch it. In another tread here I was told that the only way to get it serviced was to send it to Rolex Geneve.

My watch is almost the same as yours but has the 14k case, back and crown.

Ill try to post a pic but I don't know for sure how to post a pic yet.

Geneve might or might not do that watch for you ... the cost at this point would be as much as the watch is worth.

Why don't you send it to me? I do them all the time.

What seems to be the problem with it? PM me.

[Falstaff]

R.W.T said:

If you don't know the service history....you need to have it serviced. 2 critical areas in this watch. The rotor axle - rotor axle spring assembly and the double clutching spring that connects the ratchet wheel to the autowind. No lubrication...the legs break on the springs. An original double spring will cost you 75.00-100.00 if you can find one. Aftermarket on this part is tolerable...not great.

The rotor axle is 275.00 used in the wild.

I have no idea what currency you are talking about.

The watch looks very decent and the movement looks reasonably clean.

The "dampness"...? The spacer ring is a nickel plated brass and they are more often than not funky. The movement appears typical for the era. Some are just better than others.

Thanks - MorningTundra passed on your details, was going to contact you. The needle is all over the place on opinions, it seems, though I give yours more weight

Currency is UKP...I'm in the Uk.

Sadly, seller has gone quiet. Will PM you know if he re-emerges and I'm able to go ahead.

[R.W.T.]

Oh...:-) we say GBP

Great British!

so 1100...

Roughly 1450 usd. It's not bad. The bracelet even though not correct has a few hundred dollars value...so really it's about 1100.00 for the watch. With an original dial it's not bad and UK prices on these are high. If the auto is not too worn...( the lower rotor bushing can be a problem as well ) at least 2 of the legs on the rotor axle spring are present...it's pretty fair. It looks like a pretty honest watch to me. Judging from this photo I would say the case has only seen very light polish if any...and the bezel seems to have not been polished at all. This is a watch I wouldn't want to let go too far between service intervals because of the lubrication points I expressed. I just did one for a friend in the UK last week.

[MorningTundra]

... and the Oracle has spoken!.

And I mean that in the most complimentary way RWT!

[Falstaff]

Thanks, looks like I have an de facto opinion. Will let you know if the seller surfaces again....my spidey sense says he's moved on,or may go back to a previous higher price, without any contact I dunno....

[pettai]

"You're in Good Hands" I have grown to be watch enthusiasts with Tommy knowledge/lessons and not to mention few of my 50s Rolex serviced by the maestro.
Best
Dilip

[Falstaff]

Good....all I'm lacking is the watch itself...:)

[pettai]

All the best, just tad of patience you will find it, BTW, 6084/6085 are harder to come by in steel, my 2 bits

[Falstaff]

Seller has not answered in days, so am moving on...it's not a 'must-have' and I'd prefer peace of mind to unkowns....will be sure to post anything else I see...

[Sundaydriver]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Geneve might or might not do that watch for you ... the cost at this point would be as much as the watch is worth.

Why don't you send it to me? I do them all the time.

What seems to be the problem with it? PM me.

Thanks! I sent you a PM.

[Deaf Stan]

Just to say I love that watch. Been half-heartedly looking for one for ages. Thanks for posting and for all the replies.

OP: if you decide not to proceed then I'd be interested in the seller's details.

Thanks again vrf for being so informative