How to tell if 16800 transitional

[Orange123]

Hi have recently purchased a 16800 sub from 1987. Quick question, I have been reading about the transitional model and wondered how you tell the difference. Here are some pics anyway. Pretty please with it, just needs a freshen up

[J!m]

Early 16800's have a matte dial directly printed. Your dial has the white gold lume surrounds so it's either a replacement or a later build.

I'm not sure but I think the white gold didn't start until the 168000 model but maybe it was earlier.

These are curious models I'm interested in but have not done the intense research I have done with 1680 and 5512 models.

[Orange123]

The serial puts it at 1987 being a 9mill serial number. I have read they changed to this dial around that time but I have read the transition is around the year my watch was made and see some advertised as transitional. I don't know what makes it a transitional and if I have one or not.

[springer]

The early 16800 Subs had matte dials until the 8.3 to 8.4 million range. They were replaced with the glossy, gold surround markers dial after that era.

Orange123's Sub has the correct gold surround markers dial.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Orange123

Hi have recently purchased a 16800 sub from 1987. Quick question, I have been reading about the transitional model and wondered how you tell the difference. Here are some pics anyway. Pretty please with it, just needs a freshen up

Nice looking piece.

Little late for the original matte dialed "transitional"..

[NKflyer]

Even though this is not a matte dial, I would still consider it a transitional piece with the 316L stainless construction. FYI, I'm pretty sure the box in the photo was cobbled together, as the tan pillow did not debut until the early 1990's.

[springer]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

Even though this is not a matte dial, I would still consider it a transitional piece with the 316L stainless construction. FYI, I'm pretty sure the box in the photo was cobbled together, as the tan pillow did not debut until the early 1990's.

Tan pillow was found beginning sometime during mid-1980s. I've seen it many times. I can't say for sure what year, but 1987 would be correct for this box set.

[NKflyer]

Originally Posted by springer

Tan pillow was found beginning sometime during mid-1980s. I've seen it many times. I can't say for sure what year, but 1987 would be correct for this box set.

Care to elaborate?? I have only seen one other post on this forum about tan pillow prior to the early 1990’s and several opinions were that it was probably cobbled together although the owner swore it was original so no real resolution was reached.

In the USA, we have…

Dark green Bufkor box 1981-1987

Green felt w/disintegrating green leather pillow 1987 - 1991/1992

Tan pillow box w/wood interior 1991/1992 - 2001/2002

Rest of world…

“Slot card” box during USA Bufkor period

????? (Is this the period of the early tan pillow box that you mention?)

Tan pillow box w/wood interior 1991/1992 - 2001/2002

[springer]

Originally Posted by NKflyer

Care to elaborate?? I have only seen one other post on this forum about tan pillow prior to the early 1990’s and several opinions were that it was probably cobbled together although the owner swore it was original so no real resolution was reached.

In the USA, we have…

Dark green Bufkor box 1981-1987

Green felt w/disintegrating green leather pillow 1987 - 1991/1992

Tan pillow box w/wood interior 1991/1992 - 2001/2002

Rest of world…

“Slot card” box during USA Bufkor period

????? (Is this the period of the early tan pillow box that you mention?)

Tan pillow box w/wood interior 1991/1992 - 2001/2002

In the USA...it went like this based on my experience :

1st generation Bufkor lime green lid, lime green felt 1976-1980 (estimate)
2nd generation Bufkor (large cowhide grain) 1980-1983 (estimate)
3rd generation Bufkor box small grain cowhide same colors as 2nd generation 1983-1988 (estimate)
1988-1992 map box with disintegrating pillow (estimate)
1993 to around 2001 granite box with tan pillow (estimate)
2001/2002 (estimate) granite box with tan watch cuff

The moonscape box was not a USA box but used outside the USA. The early 1980s version had the card with a slit to hold the watch, later during the 1980s, you will find the card was replaced with a tan pillow.

By the way, there are three Bufkor boxes, not one. You missed the first one and there are two variations of the 1980s box. You can find the 1st generation Bufkor into the early 1980s and you will also find Bufkor box sets with mismatched inner and outer boxes which seems fairly common.

By the way, there are moonscape boxes for sale all the time on VRF for 1980s watches, many with the pillow cushion. There is one for sale there now for a GMT 16750.

[nobbylon]

The dial looks correct, hands look to have been replaced from the pic. Pull the crown and turn clockwise and hands should rotate anti clockwise (3035) Turn anti clock to set date. Date wheel if original will be a slightly cream colour.
All 16800 are transitional whether they have matt or gloss dials.
Rapidly appreciating in value. Inner and outer box look correct but not sure about the pillow and anchor.
I bought mine new and it came with the slot card box, a red seal and plastic wallet with a calender card and warranty instruction. The actual watch paper was filled in by hand by the dealer in front of me.
Nice watch.

[Vincent65]

I don't think the hands look like they've been replaced - you can clearly see darker Tritium lume. Nice watch.

[cpefy3]

Originally Posted by springer

In the USA...it went like this based on my experience :

1st generation Bufkor lime green lid, lime green felt 1976-1980 (estimate)
2nd generation Bufkor (large cowhide grain) 1980-1983 (estimate)
3rd generation Bufkor box small grain cowhide same colors as 2nd generation 1983-1988 (estimate)
1988-1992 map box with disintegrating pillow (estimate)
1993 to around 2001 granite box with tan pillow (estimate)
2001/2002 (estimate) granite box with tan watch cuff

The moonscape box was not a USA box but used outside the USA. The early 1980s version had the card with a slit to hold the watch, later during the 1980s, you will find the card was replaced with a tan pillow.

By the way, there are three Bufkor boxes, not one. You missed the first one and there are two variations of the 1980s box. You can find the 1st generation Bufkor into the early 1980s and you will also find Bufkor box sets with mismatched inner and outer boxes which seems fairly common.

By the way, there are moonscape boxes for sale all the time on VRF for 1980s watches, many with the pillow cushion. There is one for sale there now for a GMT 16750.

Thanks for information!! I love to learn about the boxes just as much as about the watches.

[Orange123]

Thanks everyone, starting to feel a bit better about it now. Bought only after seeing one photo of it. i like the sound of them appreciating in value quickly. I didn't see a photo of the anchor so that was a bit of a bonus when it turned up. Be nice if it was all original. Can't make my mind up if date wheel is white or cream.

Gave it a good clean yesterday so will include some more photos.

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Orange123

Hi have recently purchased a 16800 sub from 1987. Quick question, I have been reading about the transitional model and wondered how you tell the difference. Here are some pics anyway. Pretty please with it, just needs a freshen up

I think the term "transitional" is used loosely and associated with 16800 and 168000 (tripple zero) more generally.

These are really curious references with the main difference being case steel (not sure how to check this other than a mass spectrometer) but also mat and gloss dials. I believe the 16800 also marked the change from acrylic to sapphire crystals.

The use of mat vs gloss dials seems inconsistent, particularly during 1987-1990. I know some owners are replacing (luminova) service dials to get their 16800/0 back to catalog spec (tritium).

I've read some sources claiming the "Swiss T<25" printing on the 168000 is misaligned (minute marker under the I). I've seen some of these strange "mis prints" but my own 168000 (9 mil from 1998) doesn't have this.