16700 Owners Need Your Help

[sillo]

Hi guys, I'm trying to determine the dial variations throughout the production of the 16700. I think I've determined them all (thanks HQMilton for having such a good archive), but I need some better pictures to put together a thread.

I'm looking for some macros of the Dial text. So anyone who has them available I'd really appreciate it! Thanks in advance.

Here's mine, just a sample of what I'm looking for (though including the T<25/Swiss would be better)

[athom]

Could you please share the dials info you already have? I'll send you photos of mine in the next days!

[sillo]

Originally Posted by athom

Could you please share the dials info you already have? I'll send you photos of mine in the next days!

I’m at my GF’s apartment right and I’ll be home tomorrow morning to put up the info w/ mediocre pictures I have.

But for the dial I posted of mine is the 3rd I found to appear so I guess we’ll call it mark 3. This one is easy to spot. The T in GMT, the T in superlaTive, and I in officIally all line up perfectly. The H in Chronometer is also not symmetrical on top and bottom.

I found it in N serial and R serial and one other I believe, but could be in plenty others too.


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[swish77]

Here's two: My former 16700 W serial and my current 16700 A serial.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by swish77

Here's two: My former 16700 W serial and my current 16700 A serial.

So the W is the 1st dial I identified and by far the most common when I was looking. Using the same TTI I explained in the top other post these have a alignment like a back slash \. Also H is symmetric.

Swiss dial seems to be the 1st Luminova (5th overall) I identified. It has a Serif “GMT-Master” compared to the second version which is non serif. (This is from memory because my notes are home so subject to slight change, positive about the top one though)

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[strafer_kid]

U serial late 90s

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by strafer_kid

U serial late 90s

Aftermarket crystal? That magnification is horrible, 1.5x maybe?

[sillo]

Originally Posted by strafer_kid

U serial late 90s

Thanks! That’s the non serif Swiss dial (2nd luminova/6th overall)


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Thanks! That’s the non serif Swiss dial (2nd luminova/6th overall)


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Interesting that a U serial 16700 would be considered the 2nd luminova dial when they were earlier than A serials, which was the last batch of the 16700 reference.

For a list, shouldn't it be the other way around, with the style of the A serials being considered the 2nd (and presumably last) luminova dial, not including service dials?

[springer]

Originally Posted by swish77

Interesting that a U serial 16700 would be considered the 2nd luminova dial when they were earlier than A serials, which was the last batch of the 16700 reference.

For a list, shouldn't it be the other way around, with the style of the A serials being considered the 2nd (and presumably last) luminova dial, not including service dials?

I would agree. U would be the first generation and if there is any significant difference, the next variation of SWISS dials would be the second. Additionally, these luminova dials could have been used concurrently on both the U and A serial numbers - if from different dial makers and randomly inserted into the U and A serial numbered GMTs.

I'm not convinced that one would be an earlier example than the other unless there is a significant sampling of many 16700 dials from the luminova era.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by swish77

Interesting that a U serial 16700 would be considered the 2nd luminova dial when they were earlier than A serials, which was the last batch of the 16700 reference.

For a list, shouldn't it be the other way around, with the style of the A serials being considered the 2nd (and presumably last) luminova dial, not including service dials?

Not necessarily in chronological order. And I found both in U serial examples.

My sample size wasn’t huge, so things are subject to change. I just started on the first year produced and which dials I found. Then moved on and if a new one showed up, I just numbered it as the next in line.

So I’d love some more info from owners with pictures and dates. A lot of these dials seemed to run concurrently too.



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[swish77]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Not necessarily in chronological order. And I found both in U serial examples.

My sample size wasn’t huge, I just started on the first year produced and which dials I found. Then moved on and if a new one showed up, I just numbered it as the next in line.




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Ah, OK. Perhaps when your research is complete, it could be put in chronological order, since that's how other dial-variation lists are compiled. Either way, I support the effort! Thanks.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by swish77

Ah, OK. Perhaps when your research is complete, it could be put in chronological order, since that's how other dial-variation lists are compiled. Either way, I support the effort! Thanks.

I think I do have a rough order though. My plan is just to find what was the earliest serial that a specific dial had and order them that way.


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[springer]

1991 E serial number.

[faimag]

S serial (1993-1994 / bought in 1995)

[springer]

1999. "A" serial number.

[springer]

1996. T serial number.

[sillo]

Back home and doing some more digging. After thinking about what you guys said and rechecking, the non serif Swiss is indeed the first luminova dial. It was used for the transition. As in the last T<25 and first luminova dial are the same.

First Dial I found. Found in R, L, E, X, S, T, W, U Serials


Second Dial. Found in L, X, N, W, S, T Serials


This one I'm unsure about. Only found 1 when looking. On an E serial


Last T<25 Dial. First Swiss dial. I guess we can consider it the 4th and 5th versions. Found on U and A serials.


Last one. Found on T and A serials.

[springer]

The one you aren't sure about is a 16750 dial.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by springer

The one you aren't sure about is a 16750 dial.

Thanks for clearing that up Springer. So we have 3 tritium and 2 luminova variations.


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Thanks for clearing that up Springer. So we have 3 tritium and 2 luminova variations.


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Well done. Thanks for the effort.

[Mik8yu]

U8 serial god I miss the bezel font





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[sillo]

Originally Posted by Mik8yu

U8 serial god I miss the bezel font

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Speaking of bezels, does anyone know if one came before the other? Or was it concurrently?

[BrazenC5]

Originally Posted by swish77

Here's two: My former 16700 W serial and my current 16700 A serial.

A serial is better.

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[springer]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Speaking of bezels, does anyone know if one came before the other? Or was it concurrently?

The bezels were all the same. There were a couple different bezel inserts, but the bezels never changed.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by springer

The bezels were all the same. There were a couple different bezel inserts, but the bezels never changed.

Yup, sorry mean bezel inserts. I know there were serif and non serif inserts. Was one earlier than the other?


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[Mik8yu]

This was the serif insert that originally came with the watch. I wanted to preserve it at the best condition available. Most of the gmt I see sports the non serif insert.


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[springer]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Yup, sorry mean bezel inserts. I know there were serif and non serif inserts. Was one earlier than the other?


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The earlier inserts did not have seriffs and the later ones did have seriffs. I am not certain when the change occurred.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by springer

The earlier inserts did not have seriffs and the later ones did have seriffs. I am not certain when the change occurred.

Probably would be almost impossible to figure out too since they were routinely swapped.

Another question, I know the 16710 was offered on jubilee as a factory option, was this also the case with the 16700?

I know 78360 and 93150 were options, both with 501b end links. Is this correct?

Here's my insert, no idea if it's original or not, but it is the non-serif on a N serial.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Probably would be almost impossible to figure out too since they were routinely swapped.

Another question, I know the 16710 was offered on jubilee as a factory option, was this also the case with the 16700?

I know 78360 and 93150 were options, both with 501b end links. Is this correct?

I've read in several places that the 16700 was indeed offered with the 62510 Jubilee, and I've seen plenty online that had/have the Jubilee, so I assume that it was a factory option like on the 16710. Interestingly, I believe _ and happy to be corrected _ that the 93510 was only a factory option on the 16700, not the 16710.

As for inserts, the "Pepsi" and black were the only options on the 16700, of course, not the "Coke" version, which was only on the 16710.

Here's another, better shot of my 16700 A serial, complete set sold in Osaka, Japan, in July 1999, according to Japanese papers. (Had to get a work colleague to translate.)