Dilemma - Kermit

[PatRols]

I have a trusted grey dealer who proposes me a F2xxx series flat four kermit, from original owner, all original pieces, never serviced, with box, but NO papers.

I could get it for a good deal (approx. $15k) but the no paper part stops me...

What do you guys think? should I pass?

Thanks!

[bumbershoot]

Trusted seller? Who cares.... buy it :)

[JParm]

For something like that, it would always bother me...

Takuya has one for right around the same price, with box/papers.

[exador]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

For something like that, it would always bother me...

Takuya has one for right around the same price, with box/papers.

That ain’t a flat 4...

[PatRols]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

For something like that, it would always bother me...

Takuya has one for right around the same price, with box/papers.

Not a flat 4 MK1 2003 model...

[Ci54]

If trusted seller, get it if you want it. If something is not right, your money is still safe.

My 2 cents.

[JParm]

Originally Posted by exador

That ain’t a flat 4...

Originally Posted by PatRols

Not a flat 4 MK1 2003 model...

Ah, got me there.

[MrMercedes]

No papers, no deal!

[fed_fan]

Think I would hold off. Have been in your shoes before - almost pulled the trigger on an out of production watch (great condition, no papers) but held off. Couldn't get over that mental hump but knew I would see another example pop up in several months time.

Not familiar with the broader availability on the Flat 4 Kermit but if you think it's likely you'll see one (w/ papers) come available in 3-6 months then waiting is the best strategy. Just my two cents...

[kieselguhr]

Papers can be faked, therefore could care less about papers.

[zjd168]

it really depends on if or not you are a collector planning to sell it in the future. Most of people tracing this model are. Pass if you were one.

[037]

So you'd rather spend $10k more for one with papers?

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by 037

So you'd rather spend $10k more for one with papers?

I'd rather not if I was going to keep it forever and wear it.

As we all know the market is 10 grand more for papers.

If you like it and trust the seller get it. Have it serviced at the RSC. Insist that they don't change the bezel.

You'll now have papers in the sense of an RSC card.

[Cocochu]

I personally like to buy a watch with papers specially a watch like this. So definitely no from me.


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[Robf52]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I'd rather not if I was going to keep it forever and wear it.

As we all know the market is 10 grand more for papers.

If you like it and trust the seller get it. Have it serviced at the RSC. Insist that they don't change the bezel.

You'll now have papers in the sense of an RSC card.

Yes

[envuks]

The nuanced variation collector drive (like flat 4s) is pretty much lost on me, but what I will say is if you’re going through the trouble of getting a flat 4, wouldn’t you want a full set as a collector?

Is the flat 4 really that important?

[m j b]

I think $15K for an old stainless steel watch in need of a service is a lot of money.

[JParm]

Originally Posted by envuks

The nuanced variation collector drive (like flat 4s) is pretty much lost on me, but what I will say is if you’re going through the trouble of getting a flat 4, wouldn’t you want a full set as a collector?

Is the flat 4 really that important?

Good point.

[crazycarlitos]

Depends on ur endgame

If u are looking for a pristine example for max future value... pass

If u are looking for a value flat-4 now for profit later... sure, since u know it’s legit(?) And take it to RSC for service with no polish and no bezel replacement

If u r looking for simple enjoyment because u got a thing for a flat4 Kermit... absolutely. Lol

[BigAppleBill]

Originally Posted by crazycarlitos

Depends on ur endgame

If u are looking for a pristine example for max future value... pass

If u are looking for a value flat-4 now for profit later... sure, since u know it’s legit(?) And take it to RSC for service with no polish and no bezel replacement

If u r looking for simple enjoyment because u got a thing for a flat4 Kermit... absolutely. Lol

+1. Also RSC will be able to provide verification.

[Simon_jrees]

No papers, no deal.

[dricig]

It's Just a 5 digit sub with a green bezel!
We are our own worst enemy.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by dricig

It's Just a 5 digit sub with a green bezel!
We are our own worst enemy.

Only 5 digit with maxi dial too.


OP I picked up a similar watch a few years ago and had the movement only serviced by rolex. Then sold it for a small profit with box and service papers.

If you truly trust your dealer will take it back if it proves incorrect or god forbid stolen then go for it.

[77T]

Without the papers you would t know if it had been cobbled to resemble the Kermit.

If a flat 4 is very important vs. a later one, then you should want absolutely no questions if you ever sell it onward.


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[037]

Originally Posted by 77T

Without the papers you would t know if it had been cobbled to resemble the Kermit.

How often does this happen? Honest question. I recall seeing it once on TRF a year or two ago but that's it so far.

I'd imagine the buyer could take it to RSC and authenticate it pretty easily, especially if he knows the seller personally.

$10k is another watch or two. Papers just sit around. But, we all have different priorities.

[IndianRider]

From the posts on here, I'd say go for it

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by 037

How often does this happen? Honest question. I recall seeing it once on TRF a year or two ago but that's it so far.

Sadly, happened to me. Bought it locally. The watch checked out. Sadly it was a dud when I brought it to my AD to get checked out by the watchmaker. Parts on the movement were after market, bezel was aftermarket. Seller refused to take it back, sold as is. It wasn’t a super big deal back in 2014 though but it was enough to turn me off the hobby for a bit.

[djgallo]

I would “never buy that watch” without the full set....it will never be worth one with full set....and it will be harder to sell if/when you sell it.

Do your due diligence and pay more to get the best!

[037]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

Sadly, happened to me. Bought it locally. The watch checked out. Sadly it was a dud when I brought it to my AD to get checked out by the watchmaker. Parts on the movement were after market, bezel was aftermarket. Seller refused to take it back, sold as is. It wasn’t a super big deal back in 2014 though but it was enough to turn me off the hobby for a bit.

Well that sucks. I don't know if you were the person I read about or not. You might make case #2 that I've seen.

I understand the concern. I'm just not personally good with papers costing $10k on a watch I'd wear. Maybe for a safe queen but that's not my thing. I get it though.

[bobabreath]

Just buy to wear and enjoy. Don't think about how much it's worth until 10yrs from now.