Speedmaster 321 Reissue: What would you do?

[mongrelnomoad]

I've been (compulsively) checking Chrono24. They're currently selling ~30% over list. After such a short production, that surely suggests they'll continue to drop as supply opens up. I, for one, will be buying when they're at or below list.

[ratty]

It’s a lot of money for basically a different movement and smaller case.

[whiteibex]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

I've been (compulsively) checking Chrono24. They're currently selling ~30% over list. After such a short production, that surely suggests they'll continue to drop as supply opens up. I, for one, will be buying when they're at or below list.

I would not bet on this. I feel this is the complete opposite. This is the initial drop due to early flippers, then buyers will keep and the price will go up. This is usually what happens for LE.

Also, I don't expect the supply to open up. I've just heard that in the UK, OBs don't expect more than a 100 pieces per year for the whole of UK. That is less than one per year per OB. If you are not top of the list, this means years of waiting.

[ratty]

I suspect that lots of people who were waiting for the 321 will find the new Speedy Professional very interesting when it comes out.

[whiteibex]

Also, given that I went through the process, I can tell you that Omega is *extremely* careful not to sell this particular model to flippers. It could be that the initial ones on C24 have been "planned" intentionally.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by ratty

I suspect that lots of people who were waiting for the 321 will find the new Speedy Professional very interesting when it comes out.

The 39mm case and lemania movement are the selling points for me of the 321. For me The updated speedy pro is not a consideration.

[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by ratty

I suspect that lots of people who were waiting for the 321 will find the new Speedy Professional very interesting when it comes out.

I beg to differ on this.

I think the Ed White and the new 3861 Speedy Pro speaks to complete different audiences.

Without a doubt the 3861 will be far superior than 321 in every aspects, it’s more accurate, more shock resistant, more anti-magnetism, a huge plus on the ability of stopping seconds, basically more of everything, it would be a fantastic work horse, certainly will attract a lot new consumers to the brand, especially after some hugely successful product years such as the 60th anniversary, Apollo 11 and the foreseeable big win on the snoopy, people are rediscovering the value of Speedmaster, a few years back if you tell me that Omega will be launching yet another Speedy LE at the volume of 6969, the watch will be sold out within a year and keeps good value on grey market in the foreseeable future, I will be laughing my ass off and accusing you to be one of the stupid marketing guys because admittedly Omega’s LEs don’t exactly have a good reputation for holding its values. And yet here we are looking at exactly that, i think this means that people‘s attentions had been drawn back to omega and the brand is taking a advantage of the situation to reboot the entire collection.

They are refunding the snoopy deposits they got from customers as we speak because they got so many that they simply can’t make enough watches and they don’t want to flood the market, they are giving back money in the middle of a once-a-century pandemic for the crying out loud......

Now that they got the public’s attention via a number of highly anticipated and well-designed LEs, they are giving a major technical upgrade on their cash cow model— the speedy pro, riding the hype created by the Snoopy, the timing couldn’t be more perfect.

As for the customers of the Ed White, these guys don’t need work horse watches or daily watches at all, I bet you that they’ve already got a nice collection of watches and simply want a pure, non gimmicky Speedy with the Cal.321 in it, who cares about the specs or performance ??? a bad ass antique watch without the pain of servicing that they can rock anyway they like, that’s what the Ed White is about and the last of all, I bet that 8 out of 10 Ed White owners already have at least 1 Daytona in their box and couldn’t care less about the comparison.

Will the people waiting for the Ed White turn their heads to the 3861 Speedy? I highly doubt that. If it’s the people who liked the 6969 or snoopy who couldn’t get one, or they think the asking price is outrageous and better off with the normal Speedy Pro, that I do believe.

I knew a guy who has been waiting for the SS 321 ever since the launch of the PT version and passed the 6969 and Snoopy because they are too “gimmicky” to him and went for the 1014 full gold instead, just because the burgundy bezel looks good, true story. Stubborn bastards with tunnel visions really won’t care much about how similar the dials look like or how the movement performs, that’s what I meant by different audiences.

Sorry about the long reply, just a little finger exercise over the morning coffee.


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[whiteibex]

Really enjoyed your message, Wrist party

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I bet that 8 out of 10 Ed White owners already have at least 1 Daytona in their box and couldn’t care less about the comparison.

Exactly. Similarly, based on some pictures I have seen around on OF, the same 8 out of 10 would probably reply "What if you already have one of those?" to people complaining that for that steep price you could get a *real* vintage Ed White.

Some complain that Omega is going backwards with the release of the 321 ... I believe they are just acknowledging that in 2020, watch enthusiasts don't buy a watch because it's precise or more precise than its predecessor, they buy it because it has heritage, it means something to them and make their heart tick.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I beg to differ on this.

I think the Ed White and the new 3861 Speedy Pro speaks to complete different audiences.

Without a doubt the 3861 will be far superior than 321 in every aspects, it’s more accurate, more shock resistant, more anti-magnetism, a huge plus on the ability of stopping seconds, basically more of everything, it would be a fantastic work horse, certainly will attract a lot new consumers to the brand, especially after some hugely successful product years such as the 60th anniversary, Apollo 11 and the foreseeable big win on the snoopy, people are rediscovering the value of Speedmaster, a few years back if you tell me that Omega will be launching yet another Speedy LE at the volume of 6969, the watch will be sold out within a year and keeps good value on grey market in the foreseeable future, I will be laughing my ass off and accusing you to be one of the stupid marketing guys because admittedly Omega’s LEs don’t exactly have a good reputation for holding its values. And yet here we are looking at exactly that, i think this means that people‘s attentions had been drawn back to omega and the brand is taking a advantage of the situation to reboot the entire collection.

It also helps that Omega for the most part have been producing better looking LE Speedies lately. The 2 panda dial CK2998's, ST1, ST2, Snoopy 45, A11 50th anniversary, are all very nice looking watches. Only big failure I can think of is the A17 40th.

[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by whiteibex

Really enjoyed your message, Wrist party



Exactly. Similarly, based on some pictures I have seen around on OF, the same 8 out of 10 would probably reply "What if you already have one of those?" to people complaining that for that steep price you could get a *real* vintage Ed White.

Some complain that Omega is going backwards with the release of the 321 ... I believe they are just acknowledging that in 2020, watch enthusiasts don't buy a watch because it's precise or more precise than its predecessor, they buy it because it has heritage, it means something to them and make their heart tick.

I myself is a big fan of the Ed White, but not from the perspective of the discussion above, maybe because I was not a fan of the concept of “vintage watches”, which I did have a few troublesome experiences on that, long story......

To me the Ed White is like the story of David vs. Goliath, undoubtedly the Daytona has been and still is the best of Chronograph in the “Datograph or below” category, it’s hard to explain but watch dorks, meaning the majority of this forum, would understand. In terms of historic significance, cultural influences, General favourability, etc. The Daytona is always the best, followed by Speedmaster, then it comes to the likes of the Zenith El Primero, Heuer Monaco or Breitling as well as everyone else, but in my humble opinion the Speedmaster is really the only one who stands a chance in this war but even so, they were never in the landscape of the Daytona, with the help of the Rolex brand, I think that’s why Omega is giving us the Ed White.

We all know that Rolex doesn’t brag about their heritage as much as Omega, not everyone can tell the story of moon landing after all, nor can print Buzz’s ass on their dials , but that did retain the huge fan base that Speedy has and their biggest assets going against the Daytona. So what they did was to maximize their advantage and created the proper “David” for the first time in history, no brands had ever done that in the category of “daily used stainless steel chronograph” base on my recollection, the rules were set by Rolex, plain and simple.

What Omega did was creating their own “Daytona”, in their own way, no more dislocation competition or competitive pricing strategies, they wanted their Cal.321 lineup to be the proper competition against the Daytona, they wanted to create a imbalance between supply and demand with their “nuclear option”. Powerful manufacturers like Omega can pretty much do anything they like, with their sophisticated equipments and techniques, they could’ve just replaced the entire Speedy line up with a mass produced Cal.321 within a few years, which would be meaningless and suicidal. They did the right thing.

This is like watching Mercedes and BMW competing, one would be utterly boring staying on the top of the game without the other.


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[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by texasmade

It also helps that Omega for the most part have been producing better looking LE Speedies lately. The 2 panda dial CK2998's, ST1, ST2, Snoopy 45, A11 50th anniversary, are all very nice looking watches. Only big failure I can think of is the A17 40th.

I also hated the Apollo 17 45th, the Snoopy 1, the 57 reissued (not the 60th anniversary trilogy), the ALINGHI Dark side, the blue side and white side, just to name a few..... so many bad moves IMO.


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[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by whiteibex

I would not bet on this. I feel this is the complete opposite. This is the initial drop due to early flippers, then buyers will keep and the price will go up. This is usually what happens for LE.

Also, I don't expect the supply to open up. I've just heard that in the UK, OBs don't expect more than a 100 pieces per year for the whole of UK. That is less than one per year per OB. If you are not top of the list, this means years of waiting.

I think this is true, but I’ll bet the snoopy 3 trades higher than this early on (before dropping a little IMO). Personally, I prefer the 321 but it won’t have the appeal of the snoopy to many - esp the younger, Instagram crowd who want people to know what’s on their wrist.

The last one on chrono 24 sold got £14,500 (I won’t name the firm). They reduced it from an initial 17k compared to a list price of £12k.

If the supply numbers are true (and I know who from OF you have taken that figure from), then I suspect there will be a drift upwards once people realise it’s cough up a 25% uptick or wait 5+years.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I also hated the Apollo 17 45th, the Snoopy 1, the 57 reissued (not the 60th anniversary trilogy), the ALINGHI Dark side, the blue side and white side, just to name a few..... so many bad moves IMO.


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I'm mainly talking about the past 5 or 6 years of LE Speedmasters. Even the A17 45th is holding steady on GM. The value hasn't tanked.

I think most of the X side of the moon watches are LP not LE. Either way it's still a decent success rate for Omega Speedmasters compared to years past or the various Seamaster LE's.

[C0d]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I also hated the Apollo 17 45th, the Snoopy 1, the 57 reissued (not the 60th anniversary trilogy), the ALINGHI Dark side, the blue side and white side, just to name a few..... so many bad moves IMO.


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Have you seen pricing of Snoopy 1? Speculation and hype are during those up also. I call it the Rolex effect.

[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by C0d

Have you seen pricing of Snoopy 1? Speculation and hype are during those up also. I call it the Rolex effect.

I noticed it indeed, I tried not to let it affects my judgment but the Snoopy 1’s price did jumped up quite a bit, still won’t change the fact that is the least appealing Snoopy LEs of the 3.

Rolex effect is everywhere, it is also happening on Patek, AP, FPJ, etc. It’s essentially the change of the nature of watch consumption and the fact that the demand-supply relation had been heavily skewed on these brands, I don’t know if you noticed, the customer base of watch consumption had widened quite substantially over the past decade and it didn’t only happen in the watch world, the Mercedes G- wagon and Maybach S-class as well as some other brands are also experiencing similar situations in some regions, it’s probably one thing that worth studying.

Welcome to the new era.


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[rolexest]

Funny enough I was just recently faced with this scenario. I do love the reissue and if money was no object I would obviously buy it. After giving it some thought, I couldn't really justify the cost of the reissue and purchased the hesalite speedy pro instead. For me it was very circumstantial; I have a handful of Rolex that struggle to each find their wrist time. I don't really like wearing a Rolex to work because 1) I don't like the looks (which I have gotten numerous times), and 2) I am an engineer and am on the construction site often and I tend to smash my watch up a bit. My speedy purchase was intended to fill the void in my collection and serve as my every day/work watch. The hesalite speedy pro was a perfect enough balance of cost and heritage for me and I am happy with my choice. I haven't really given the reissue any thought since my purchase.

[C0d]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

the Mercedes G- wagon and Maybach S-class as well as some other brands are also experiencing similar situations in some regions, it’s probably one thing that worth studying.

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Oh I know those regions. I am from one of them ;)

Have you seen the waitlist for G-Wagons?

[ratty]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I beg to differ on this.

I think the Ed White and the new 3861 Speedy Pro speaks to complete different audiences.

Without a doubt the 3861 will be far superior than 321 in every aspects, it’s more accurate, more shock resistant, more anti-magnetism, a huge plus on the ability of stopping seconds, basically more of everything, it would be a fantastic work horse, certainly will attract a lot new consumers to the brand, especially after some hugely successful product years such as the 60th anniversary, Apollo 11 and the foreseeable big win on the snoopy, people are rediscovering the value of Speedmaster, a few years back if you tell me that Omega will be launching yet another Speedy LE at the volume of 6969, the watch will be sold out within a year and keeps good value on grey market in the foreseeable future, I will be laughing my ass off and accusing you to be one of the stupid marketing guys because admittedly Omega’s LEs don’t exactly have a good reputation for holding its values. And yet here we are looking at exactly that, i think this means that people‘s attentions had been drawn back to omega and the brand is taking a advantage of the situation to reboot the entire collection.

They are refunding the snoopy deposits they got from customers as we speak because they got so many that they simply can’t make enough watches and they don’t want to flood the market, they are giving back money in the middle of a once-a-century pandemic for the crying out loud......

Now that they got the public’s attention via a number of highly anticipated and well-designed LEs, they are giving a major technical upgrade on their cash cow model— the speedy pro, riding the hype created by the Snoopy, the timing couldn’t be more perfect.

As for the customers of the Ed White, these guys don’t need work horse watches or daily watches at all, I bet you that they’ve already got a nice collection of watches and simply want a pure, non gimmicky Speedy with the Cal.321 in it, who cares about the specs or performance ??? a bad ass antique watch without the pain of servicing that they can rock anyway they like, that’s what the Ed White is about and the last of all, I bet that 8 out of 10 Ed White owners already have at least 1 Daytona in their box and couldn’t care less about the comparison.

Will the people waiting for the Ed White turn their heads to the 3861 Speedy? I highly doubt that. If it’s the people who liked the 6969 or snoopy who couldn’t get one, or they think the asking price is outrageous and better off with the normal Speedy Pro, that I do believe.

I knew a guy who has been waiting for the SS 321 ever since the launch of the PT version and passed the 6969 and Snoopy because they are too “gimmicky” to him and went for the 1014 full gold instead, just because the burgundy bezel looks good, true story. Stubborn bastards with tunnel visions really won’t care much about how similar the dials look like or how the movement performs, that’s what I meant by different audiences.

Sorry about the long reply, just a little finger exercise over the morning coffee.


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I can certainly see, at least some of you points above about the 321.

I agree that some will only want the watch as a non gimmicky, perhaps more classic Speedy, but for me the difference in price when compared to a Speedy Pro is too much.

I probably fit your profile of potential Ed White buyers exactly. I already have a few Daytonas and other watches and the only comparison I was trying to make to others was in the weight of the watches and the ‘feel’ on the wrist.

I was very disappointed in how I felt about the 321 when I went to collect one. I was looking forward to getting it and wearing it but when I saw and handled the watch I decided it wasn’t for me at the retail price. I had bought a new Moon Watch two days before and whilst I could definitely see the attraction of having a different Speedy, I just didn’t see the 321 as being worth over three and a half times the cost of the MW. If it had been about half of the asking price, £6000 as opposed to £12000, I probably would have bought it and given it a go.

I have no doubt that lots of people will disagree with my views and be very happy with their 321s, but I’m looking forward to seeing a new Speedy Pro with the step dial, new chrono second hand, bracelet etc. I’m also looking forward to hopefully buying a new Snoopy 3 in the foreseeable future.

[MartinAir]

Once the 3861 lands on the Moon and/or will be the first on Mars, this 321vs3861 debate will be reduced to just column wheel vs cam&lever. ;)

[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by MartinAir

Once the 3861 lands on the Moon and/or will be the first on Mars, this 321vs3861 debate will be reduced to just column wheel vs cam&lever. ;)

I really think by then we will all be thrilled to add another 3861 into the box


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[Justindo]

I personally don't think the 321 is overpriced and it is the ultimate Speedmaster but I definitely see how the current or upcoming Sapphire Sandwich offers more bang for the buck, especially if you can't or don't want to drop the coin on a 321 or you don't see the value in the 321 movement. Still, I see room in a collection for all three if you like Speedmaster.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by ratty

It’s a lot of money for basically a different movement and smaller case.

Couldn’t that be said for every watch?
Movement & case & bracelet & dial.

The speedy pro dial is arguably perfect, it’s legible and balanced.

The movement case and bracelet have undergone significant changes... it could be said that everything that could be changed has been changed and arguably improved.

Subjectively, I prefer the smaller case and have been longing for this 39mm version.


Ps also improved imho was the sapphire crystal that now does not have a milky ring.

[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by Justindo

I personally don't think the 321 is overpriced and it is the ultimate Speedmaster but I definitely see how the current or upcoming Sapphire Sandwich offers more bang for the buck, especially if you can't or don't want to drop the coin on a 321 or you don't see the value in the 321 movement. Still, I see room in a collection for all three if you like Speedmaster.

However the normal sapphire sandwich can’t offer you the view like this


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[Nodzex]

A

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by Stevec14

Just the lume colour I think, and on the hesalite the logo is printed and not applied.

The step dial was one of the real good things about this (recently only the Apollo 11 steel and gold and ultraman had them). Now they’ve put it on the regular speedie, one of the lures of the 321 is available at a much lower price point.

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I beg to differ on this.

I think the Ed White and the new 3861 Speedy Pro speaks to complete different audiences.

Without a doubt the 3861 will be far superior than 321 in every aspects, it’s more accurate, more shock resistant, more anti-magnetism, a huge plus on the ability of stopping seconds, basically more of everything, it would be a fantastic work horse, certainly will attract a lot new consumers to the brand, especially after some hugely successful product years such as the 60th anniversary, Apollo 11 and the foreseeable big win on the snoopy, people are rediscovering the value of Speedmaster, a few years back if you tell me that Omega will be launching yet another Speedy LE at the volume of 6969, the watch will be sold out within a year and keeps good value on grey market in the foreseeable future, I will be laughing my ass off and accusing you to be one of the stupid marketing guys because admittedly Omega’s LEs don’t exactly have a good reputation for holding its values. And yet here we are looking at exactly that, i think this means that people‘s attentions had been drawn back to omega and the brand is taking a advantage of the situation to reboot the entire collection.

They are refunding the snoopy deposits they got from customers as we speak because they got so many that they simply can’t make enough watches and they don’t want to flood the market, they are giving back money in the middle of a once-a-century pandemic for the crying out loud......

Now that they got the public’s attention via a number of highly anticipated and well-designed LEs, they are giving a major technical upgrade on their cash cow model— the speedy pro, riding the hype created by the Snoopy, the timing couldn’t be more perfect.

As for the customers of the Ed White, these guys don’t need work horse watches or daily watches at all, I bet you that they’ve already got a nice collection of watches and simply want a pure, non gimmicky Speedy with the Cal.321 in it, who cares about the specs or performance ??? a bad ass antique watch without the pain of servicing that they can rock anyway they like, that’s what the Ed White is about and the last of all, I bet that 8 out of 10 Ed White owners already have at least 1 Daytona in their box and couldn’t care less about the comparison.

Will the people waiting for the Ed White turn their heads to the 3861 Speedy? I highly doubt that. If it’s the people who liked the 6969 or snoopy who couldn’t get one, or they think the asking price is outrageous and better off with the normal Speedy Pro, that I do believe.

I knew a guy who has been waiting for the SS 321 ever since the launch of the PT version and passed the 6969 and Snoopy because they are too “gimmicky” to him and went for the 1014 full gold instead, just because the burgundy bezel looks good, true story. Stubborn bastards with tunnel visions really won’t care much about how similar the dials look like or how the movement performs, that’s what I meant by different audiences.

Sorry about the long reply, just a little finger exercise over the morning coffee.


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Spot on! Enjoyed your post.

[bonovox]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I beg to differ on this.

I think the Ed White and the new 3861 Speedy Pro speaks to complete different audiences.

Without a doubt the 3861 will be far superior than 321 in every aspects, it’s more accurate, more shock resistant, more anti-magnetism, a huge plus on the ability of stopping seconds, basically more of everything, it would be a fantastic work horse, certainly will attract a lot new consumers to the brand, especially after some hugely successful product years such as the 60th anniversary, Apollo 11 and the foreseeable big win on the snoopy, people are rediscovering the value of Speedmaster, a few years back if you tell me that Omega will be launching yet another Speedy LE at the volume of 6969, the watch will be sold out within a year and keeps good value on grey market in the foreseeable future, I will be laughing my ass off and accusing you to be one of the stupid marketing guys because admittedly Omega’s LEs don’t exactly have a good reputation for holding its values. And yet here we are looking at exactly that, i think this means that people‘s attentions had been drawn back to omega and the brand is taking a advantage of the situation to reboot the entire collection.

They are refunding the snoopy deposits they got from customers as we speak because they got so many that they simply can’t make enough watches and they don’t want to flood the market, they are giving back money in the middle of a once-a-century pandemic for the crying out loud......

Now that they got the public’s attention via a number of highly anticipated and well-designed LEs, they are giving a major technical upgrade on their cash cow model— the speedy pro, riding the hype created by the Snoopy, the timing couldn’t be more perfect.

As for the customers of the Ed White, these guys don’t need work horse watches or daily watches at all, I bet you that they’ve already got a nice collection of watches and simply want a pure, non gimmicky Speedy with the Cal.321 in it, who cares about the specs or performance ??? a bad ass antique watch without the pain of servicing that they can rock anyway they like, that’s what the Ed White is about and the last of all, I bet that 8 out of 10 Ed White owners already have at least 1 Daytona in their box and couldn’t care less about the comparison.

Will the people waiting for the Ed White turn their heads to the 3861 Speedy? I highly doubt that. If it’s the people who liked the 6969 or snoopy who couldn’t get one, or they think the asking price is outrageous and better off with the normal Speedy Pro, that I do believe.

I knew a guy who has been waiting for the SS 321 ever since the launch of the PT version and passed the 6969 and Snoopy because they are too “gimmicky” to him and went for the 1014 full gold instead, just because the burgundy bezel looks good, true story. Stubborn bastards with tunnel visions really won’t care much about how similar the dials look like or how the movement performs, that’s what I meant by different audiences.

Sorry about the long reply, just a little finger exercise over the morning coffee.


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I'm respectfully curious where you got info that they are "refunding Snoopy deposits they got from customers as we speak." Are you saying they are proactively doing this, and if so, where?

[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by bonovox

I'm respectfully curious where you got info that they are "refunding Snoopy deposits they got from customers as we speak." Are you saying they are proactively doing this, and if so, where?

They’re doing it discreetly of course, the truth is the number of orders of Snoopy 3 they’ve received is way above their scheduled production capacity so they had to trim down some of the orders from the back, but this is only the boutiques, ADs however are privately owned are less likely to do so. I’m in Canada and don’t have boutiques in my city, but my AD is one of the largest ADs and they are taking up to 100 orders, that’s just one store. My friends in Vancouver, US, Australia, HK who placed orders in local boutiques had been asked if they r willing to get a refund due to the inability to deliver orders in the foreseeable future. Ask your local boutiques, I believe they can give you the best answer.


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[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

They’re doing it discreetly of course, the truth is the number of orders of Snoopy 3 they’ve received is way above their scheduled production capacity so they had to trim down some of the orders from the back, but this is only the boutiques, ADs however are privately owned are less likely to do so. I’m in Canada and don’t have boutiques in my city, but my AD is one of the largest ADs and they are taking up to 100 orders, that’s just one store. My friends in Vancouver, US, Australia, HK who placed orders in local boutiques had been asked if they r willing to get a refund due to the inability to deliver orders in the foreseeable future. Ask your local boutiques, I believe they can give you the best answer.


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I'm glad my local OB haven't phoned me yet asking if I'm willing to accept a refund.

[Wrist party]

Originally Posted by texasmade

I'm glad my local OB haven't phoned me yet asking if I'm willing to accept a refund.

I suspect this would happen on the people that locate at the back of the list for various reasons, it also depends on different regions I guess. For those who placed orders with ADs, that’s a different story though.....


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[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by Wrist party

I suspect this would happen on the people that locate at the back of the list for various reasons, it also depends on different regions I guess. For those who placed orders with ADs, that’s a different story though.....


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It’s basically all guessing. No one knows outside of a bit of he said/she said through their own individual boutique. No doubt it is happening in some areas, but I’d suspect it’s quite limited in the main.