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Old 28 November 2021, 01:10 AM   #1
Subspecies
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Laser welding vintage watches. The future?

8Going to start out and say that I'm not a fan especially on vintage. But it does and will happen, so my point is..

How in 'x' amount of time will a watch that has extra material added and then worn become an 'original' unpolished watch with almost no wear for the seller?
Looks like an unprovable cycle and possibly the end of vintage. Not really but a concern nonetheless
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Old 28 November 2021, 01:58 AM   #2
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It’s happening everyday………soon the re cut pieces will be worn and some sold as unpolished original
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Old 28 November 2021, 01:59 AM   #3
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I'm not sure how this represents "the end of vintage". In fact, I suspect that most people are happy that their cases can be restored, since they get more joy from the refinished cases.

Looking forward, I suspect that people who care about the distinction between unpolished and refinished will increasingly learn how to distinguish the exact shape of original cases, just as they now study fine details of dials and bezels. Obviously, some people can already do this.
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Old 28 November 2021, 02:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
I'm not sure how this represents "the end of vintage". In fact, I suspect that most people are happy that their cases can be restored, since they get more joy from the refinished cases.

Looking forward, I suspect that people who care about the distinction between unpolished and refinished will increasingly learn how to distinguish the exact shape of original cases, just as they now study fine details of dials and bezels. Obviously, some people can already do this.
Totally agree. Not sure how a recut/refinished/lasered case is any different than an immaculately refinished dial. When it comes to restoration of any part of a vintage Rolex, there are ways to tell what's been done. As restorers get better and better, so does the scrutiny by experts who can dissect a watch down to the tiniest of details. Check out some of the analyses by Perezcope, for example.

So, the OP comes here says he's not a fan of vintage and that improvements in vintage case restoration will be the end of the hobby? Interesting.
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Old 28 November 2021, 02:54 AM   #5
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Yea, calling it the end is harsh.... Although I prefer thick cases showing age and some scratches, Some of these refinished/ recut cases look great.
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Old 28 November 2021, 02:59 AM   #6
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I have absolutely seen an uptick of "unpolished" 4 digit sports models with just the right amount of case wear, small scratches and nicks to place them in that vintage sweet spot of beautifully used. I'm assuming some of these watches, when they come back from Rolliworks or wherever are carefully aged to achieve the look.
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Old 28 November 2021, 09:14 AM   #7
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Of course it's not the end. Enjoy those vintage watches everyone, whether original or refinished. I heard they aren't making them anymore.
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Old 28 November 2021, 10:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subspecies View Post
. . .
How in 'x' amount of time will a watch that has extra material added and then worn become an 'original' unpolished watch with almost no wear for the seller?
Looks like an unprovable cycle and possibly the end of vintage. Not really but a concern nonetheless
A vintage is always a vintage, so laser welding and other machining processes could bring back trashed examples that nobody would be interested in any more.

The level of restoration varies, but it would be very likely that there would be tells, and not perfect surfaces, after welding and re-grinding.

There will likely be a market for rebuilt vintage watches. It is very unlikely that there will suddenly be a run on trashed watches so that laser welders can melt the midnight oil on them.

Laser welding is not magic and it would still take a good craftsman to be able to weld up and restore a perfect, undetectable, surface.
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Old 28 November 2021, 08:42 PM   #9
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Hi all,

A couple of month ago I saw on the French forum a thread where a guy found a way to tel if a watch was laser repaired or not. Article is not online anymore, but I'll dig a bit to see if I can find it.
Basically, method was based on a very light etching (which wouldn't leave any traces) which reveal the metallurgic structure of the steel.

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Old 28 November 2021, 08:49 PM   #10
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Hi all,

A couple of month ago I saw on the French forum a thread where a guy found a way to tel if a watch was laser repaired or not. Article is not online anymore, but I'll dig a bit to see if I can find it.
Basically, method was based on a very light etching (which wouldn't leave any traces) which reveal the metallurgic structure of the steel.

Oli
Found (in French only, sorry)

https://www.lesrhabilleurs.com/2020/...k/#optin-modal

Oli
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Old 28 November 2021, 11:14 PM   #11
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For those of us that like "a nice watch to wear", laser welding is great. My old 5513 hasn't looked better since it rolled off the production line fifty-odd years ago!

The issue with LW is collectors nowadays demanding original everything in NOS condition...but lacking the expertise and experience to source and inspect the pieces (and the money to pay for serious examples, often). Frankly I think those collectors would be better off buying a nice watch to wear most of the time, and leaving the pristine examples to deep-pocketed experten. There are lots of nice old honest watches out there, after all.
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Old 29 November 2021, 01:28 PM   #12
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Very interesting! Merci!
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Old 29 November 2021, 01:28 PM   #13
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For those of us that like "a nice watch to wear", laser welding is great. My old 5513 hasn't looked better since it rolled off the production line fifty-odd years ago!

The issue with LW is collectors nowadays demanding original everything in NOS condition...but lacking the expertise and experience to source and inspect the pieces (and the money to pay for serious examples, often). Frankly I think those collectors would be better off buying a nice watch to wear most of the time, and leaving the pristine examples to deep-pocketed experten. There are lots of nice old honest watches out there, after all.
I’d love to see photos of the end result, if you’re willing to share it here. In fact a before and after would be even better
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Old 29 November 2021, 02:41 PM   #14
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I’d love to see photos of the end result, if you’re willing to share it here. In fact a before and after would be even better
I posted some before-and-after photos last year of a 5513 case I decided to have restored. I was fortunate that the crown guards were still good.
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=777764
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Old 30 November 2021, 12:18 AM   #15
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I posted some before-and-after photos last year of a 5513 case I decided to have restored. I was fortunate that the crown guards were still good.
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=777764
Thanks Dan, I need a bit of practice before my pics are up to snuff for this site
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Old 30 November 2021, 04:49 AM   #16
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I think I’d prefer documented Rolliworks polished pieces since they do a great job of restoring chamfers. Even better if the document shows no laser welding. I’d be too stressed worrying and guessing if it’s “unpolished”.
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Old 30 November 2021, 06:07 AM   #17
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This article came up in October of 2019, Thought you all might find this interesting as the person who did the paper for his graduate studies actually posted a response on TRF (#19) https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ighlight=laser. His only post on TRF by the way. It is very interesting!
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Old 30 November 2021, 06:35 AM   #18
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This article came up in October of 2019, Thought you all might find this interesting as the person who did the paper for his graduate studies actually posted a response on TRF (#19) https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ighlight=laser. His only post on TRF by the way. It is very interesting!
Some of the comments in that thread are pretty funny. Just shows how things have changed in two years.
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Old 30 November 2021, 07:15 AM   #19
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Laser welding vintage watches. The future?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLord2 View Post
This article came up in October of 2019, Thought you all might find this interesting as the person who did the paper for his graduate studies actually posted a response on TRF (#19) https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ighlight=laser. His only post on TRF by the way. It is very interesting!

His post is quite interesting, I also find it interesting only 1 person felt it relevant enough to read and quote at the time. It’s also odd he has never been back on.


Sent from my Apple privacy invasion product
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Old 2 December 2021, 11:07 AM   #20
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Totally agree. Not sure how a recut/refinished/lasered case is any different than an immaculately refinished dial. When it comes to restoration of any part of a vintage Rolex, there are ways to tell what's been done. As restorers get better and better, so does the scrutiny by experts who can dissect a watch down to the tiniest of details. Check out some of the analyses by Perezcope, for example.

So, the OP comes here says he's not a fan of vintage and that improvements in vintage case restoration will be the end of the hobby? Interesting.
Exactly, if you collect, love and study vintage watches you are, and hopefully always will be, able to distinguish an untouched case from a recut (also at the moment it's not that hard).
Furthermore if you collect, love and study vintage watches you are able to choose dealers who declares if a watch is or is not refinished.
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