Jules Audemars vs Code Line - Thoughts 13 Years Later

[macrowatch]

I was fumbling through some old paper magazines over the weekend and came across a 2008 article talking about the best watches to collect.

There was a PP 5960, Breguet 3757 Tourbillon, BP Perpetual with Tourbillon, a GP Tourbillon, an FPJ, a VC Tourbillon, etc, etc.

Besides this overwhelming theme of perpetuals and tourbillons, what struck me was that the designs were rather hard to tell apart from one another. If I had to guess, I would have been hard pressed to know which was one the BP vs VC vs AP, especially if I was unfamiliar with the references. Basically it was all circle cases with similar dial designs except from the FPJ and RM.

This leads me to wonder now if the decision of the Code has already aged well so far for the brand. I mean we may not like the dials at this point, but the cases are distinctive, they are selling out whereas the circle case watches from everyone else outside of FPJ are not selling out.

All and all from a design language standpoint to solidify the brand, it seems like the evolution from Jules Audemars to the Code has been a strong move for AP. For reference, this was one of the AP Jules Audemars from the article. If the name was removed, could any new watch person really know if it was a BP or VC or Breguet, or even PP?

[gretch6364]

I definitely like the CODE more then that watch. Unfortunately, because of the pricing, it seems the CODE is not desirable as a first or only AP, but yet is one of the easier ones to obtain.

Now, I can see the perspective from AP, it is a gold watch and a CODE chrono is the same price as a gold ROC on a strap, but I can't help to think the CODE would be much more popular if it was priced more in line with a SS RO/ROC on bracelet.

They will never do it and it doesn't really have the water resistance to fit this market, but how good would a SS CODE with the ceramic mid-case be if priced aggressively?

In person, this watch is great, but it isn't $46K great (for the chrono) IMHO.

[7sins]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

I mean we may not like the dials at this point, but the cases are distinctive, they are selling out whereas the circle case watches from everyone else outside of FPJ are not selling out.

I don't mind the dials, there are some striking and standout dials like this aventurine dial. Seeing and handling the CODEs in person made me have a better appreciation for them but would not be my first choice for a round case respective to other brands.

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

I definitely like the CODE more then that watch. Unfortunately, because of the pricing, it seems the CODE is not desirable as a first or only AP, but yet is one of the easier ones to obtain.

Now, I can see the perspective from AP, it is a gold watch and a CODE chrono is the same price as a gold ROC on a strap, but I can't help to think the CODE would be much more popular if it was priced more in line with a SS RO/ROC on bracelet.

They will never do it and it doesn't really have the water resistance to fit this market, but how good would a SS CODE with the ceramic mid-case be if priced aggressively?

In person, this watch is great, but it isn't $46K great (for the chrono) IMHO.

No double a slightly lower price point would just crush all the competitors. But it seems to be moving briskly now, I'm told one chrono took all of 48 hours to sell once it came in.

Originally Posted by 7sins

I don't mind the dials, there are some striking and standout dials like this aventurine dial. Seeing and handling the CODEs in person made me have a better appreciation for them but would not be my first choice for a round case respective to other brands.

Curious what round cases deign your interest these days to compete against the mighty RM and Jumbo?

What I find interesting in my quasi round trip through time looking at the old magazines is how I'd actually pick the modern day code over the other watches I was looking at back in 2010 (PP 5127) or even the modernish PP Chrono 5170 or even 5172.

I also think now that the watches today are super cheap relative to the prices the 2010 watches were at relative to inflation and opportunity cost of investment returns.

[HMHM]

I think the CODE did its job in generating interest for AP dress watches. Publicity is always good they says. But AP should have tap more into the Millenary line. I felt there was more potential in the Millenary line.

[7sins]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

No double a slightly lower price point would just crush all the competitors. But it seems to be moving briskly now, I'm told one chrono took all of 48 hours to sell once it came in.



Curious what round cases deign your interest these days to compete against the mighty RM and Jumbo?

What I find interesting in my quasi round trip through time looking at the old magazines is how I'd actually pick the modern day code over the other watches I was looking at back in 2010 (PP 5127) or even the modernish PP Chrono 5170 or even 5172.

I also think now that the watches today are super cheap relative to the prices the 2010 watches were at relative to inflation and opportunity cost of investment returns.

All subjective of course, especially when discussing aesthetics. For a round case, it would be really anything from FPJ or a 5270P. The latter I expect to arrive the second week of December and will fit the dress watch role perfectly for me. Dial, movement and material all certainly play a role. I like a few MB&F watches as well for something a bit eccentric.

The CODEs are moving well, last time I was in the BH boutique, they had NONE available, all waitlist.

[Nav01L]

Call me a contrarian, but I really like the code 11.59. Stupid name and the first series of dials was not great, but with the new dials it’s right up my alley, especially as a chronograph or as a perpetual

[Reign]

I really like the CODE and have two of them. The case construction is very unique and shows a ton of hand work.

I think AP has done a great of building an identity for the line (which is still WIP)




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[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by 7sins

All subjective of course, especially when discussing aesthetics. For a round case, it would be really anything from FPJ or a 5270P. The latter I expect to arrive the second week of December and will fit the dress watch role perfectly for me. Dial, movement and material all certainly play a role. I like a few MB&F watches as well for something a bit eccentric.

The CODEs are moving well, last time I was in the BH boutique, they had NONE available, all waitlist.

The 5270P looks like a worthy addition to the A-Lister team you have building there! I actually had a chance at CS FPJ last year, I regret passing on it intellectually, but when I held it in my hands, I felt nothing. Loved the photos, but felt unmoved in person. Now if I could just get a 5270P front, code case, and FPJ back...I'd be a happy customer!

Originally Posted by Nav01L

Call me a contrarian, but I really like the code 11.59. Stupid name and the first series of dials was not great, but with the new dials it’s right up my alley, especially as a chronograph or as a perpetual

I'd call you ahead of your time and ahead of the pack.

Originally Posted by Reign

I really like the CODE and have two of them. The case construction is very unique and shows a ton of hand work.

I think AP has done a great of building an identity for the line (which is still WIP)




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What is your gauge on the identity of the line? And of course I think even the skeptics agree the perpetual dial there is the best of the bunch.

[thekman]

I am not a code hater and have actually started appreciating them much more when I saw the burgundy chrono in person but there are a few things I would like them to change before I actually buy one like the 4:30 date and possibly a smaller case size but regardless what I find weird is that AP has no dress watches. Obviously the code is not a classic dress watch and I think it's weird that a historic maison like AP that has created some of the nicest dress watches throughout history has no competitor to the Calatrava, Patrimony and most Lange watches.

[TunaTuna]

The Codes are actually nice, and if they traded above retail everyone would want them

[gretch6364]

Just one counter point when talking about “round” watches. Lange really does a phenomenal job here and an 1815 chrono or datograph or zeitwerk is just sex on the wrist

[Neom]

I didn't like the Code when it was released and I still don't like it at the price point it is being sold for. The PC is nice thanks to the dial, but all the other models do nothing for me...

[Reign]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

The 5270P looks like a worthy addition to the A-Lister team you have building there! I actually had a chance at CS FPJ last year, I regret passing on it intellectually, but when I held it in my hands, I felt nothing. Loved the photos, but felt unmoved in person. Now if I could just get a 5270P front, code case, and FPJ back...I'd be a happy customer!







I'd call you ahead of your time and ahead of the pack.







What is your gauge on the identity of the line? And of course I think even the skeptics agree the perpetual dial there is the best of the bunch.

Modern dress watch with incredible case finishing and a platform for AP to introduce new movements (4302, 4401, flying tourb)

Originally Posted by gretch6364

Just one counter point when talking about “round” watches. Lange really does a phenomenal job here and an 1815 chrono or datograph or zeitwerk is just sex on the wrist

Lange cases and lugs leave a lot to be desired. They crush it on dials and movements.

AP crushes it on case finishing and some movements / dials (trying to be objective). The 4302 and 4401 are solid, reliable and well finished movements but lag on hand finishing. Things get interesting in the CODE once you get into the QP and Tourbs


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[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Reign

Lange cases and lugs leave a lot to be desired. They crush it on dials and movements.

AP crushes it on case finishing…

Ironically, the Lange cases are to a large extent made by AP (Centror, a former subsidiary, today a fully integrated branch of AP). Furthermore, there’s a big difference between being designed in an unpretentious way and leaving anything to be desired in terms of execution.

[le_baron]

Originally Posted by Neom

I didn't like the Code when it was released and I still don't like it at the price point it is being sold for. The PC is nice thanks to the dial, but all the other models do nothing for me...

Agreed. I would add that I like the code case but dislike the code hands and index font.