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Old 27 October 2021, 03:04 AM   #1
TheVTCGuy
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Cars nowhere to be found

I already posted this in the electric car thread but thought it was an interesting topic, the fact that it is nearly impossible to buy a car right now and the premium used cars are bringing. I was at a football party this past weekend and met a couple car dealers. One owns a strictly used car lot, the other a AD (I guess you call it ) with new and used cars. They were talking about how difficult it is right now to buy a car, ANY car. The used car dealer said he usually has 50 cars on his lot, now has three, the new car dealer said he usually has 600, now has about 50. I jokingly asked what they would give me for my 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium, 57,000 miles in great condition; I almost started a fist fight between the two making me offers. I gave them the keys and invited them to take it for a test drive. They came back, and said it was very nice, and the AD guy would be making me an offer (I guess he won the fist fight). He showed me on the Kelly Blue Book site the value of my car, then offered me FIVE THOUSAND MORE!!!!!! He said next year the value of mine would descend to Blue Book, or lower. I said I would look this week for a good deal on a Tesla Model S (my next car) and would let him know. If I can find a good deal, I will take the offer!

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Old 27 October 2021, 03:19 AM   #2
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Old 27 October 2021, 03:19 AM   #3
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It is crazy. Same situation here. I bought my car a few months ago. I have a client who is the General Manager for a dealership in Nebraska and he said they are shipping cars all over the country. The dealerships here have all changed from new cars to used cars right now and they are shipping cars everywhere, as well. Many new car dealers only have a handful of new cars in their showrooms and these are not for sale. They are just so people can actually see something so it looks like a new car dealer. Anything that arrives was already sold months ago so those cars don't even hit the lot. A big Toyota dealer told me that they have completely changed over to used cars right now and they have multiple lots filled with used cars. Not a single new car on the lot.

I had dinner with a friend on Friday who does fleet sales and leasing with GE Capital for big companies that need pickup trucks, delivery vans, and work vehicles like that. He said they have a large client who needs 500 trucks (combination of Ford/Chysler/GM) and he was told by all three manufacturers that there won't be anything for model year 2022 and they cannot get their client situated with new trucks until 2023!!! So the client is trying to hobble along with what they have and are just doing maintenance. My friend and his team are working with used vendors in some cases but those are small orders.
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Old 27 October 2021, 03:27 AM   #4
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My AD got a TSLA recently and loves it. He decked it all out like a Stormtrooper. Congrats and looking fwd to pics.
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Old 27 October 2021, 03:28 AM   #5
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Just got a call from a friend who took his GT4 into the dealership for service and looked around the showroom (only 6 cars). He said the service department was parking cars that were 2015 and newer in the showroom just to make it look like they have cars.

Anyway, he said they had a new 2022 GT3 with all the options ($160k base, fully loaded was $216k). The dealer was asking $115,000 over sticker!!! $331 for a GT3!!! Crazy times we live in.
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Old 27 October 2021, 03:29 AM   #6
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Used trucks are being purchased at a premium up here in Canada, then shipped directly to the USA by wholesalers right now. They can't buy enough of them to keep up with demand..
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Old 27 October 2021, 03:33 AM   #7
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I had a guy offer me $10k over my cost for my fully modded off road 4runner. Usually all mods lose 50% value the minute u tack them on. Lol. It’s insane.
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Old 27 October 2021, 03:59 AM   #8
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Gentle nudge for consumers to look to the pre-owned market. Which probably would've collapsed otherwise. New vehicle production has been on its way down for a number of years now.

https://publish.manheim.com/en/servi...lue-index.html

https://www.bts.gov/content/annual-u...housands-units
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Old 27 October 2021, 04:05 AM   #9
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Gosh, I wish I was smart enough to anticipate where all this is going…

Idk. I have this lingering unease that “something” is coming… Things can’t continue this way perpetually.

Same here in PA. No cars to be had anywhere. My wife and I are expecting a third child next year. Cannot believe we might be paying over sticker for a minivan. Again, beats me as to where all of this is going…

OP, good luck with the Tesla! Look forward to seeing pics, brother!
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Old 27 October 2021, 04:06 AM   #10
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My wife's uncle is owner in an engineering firm that designed and manufactures several carbon fiber composite components for the Dodge Hellcat engine and transmission. He said they devoted an entire wing of their manufacturing facility to the Hellcat parts, and it is sitting empty. They haven't produced a single part in over 6 months. All of that custom tooling and machinery is just sitting in the dark, collecting dust, and Dodge has no idea when they will even resume making it.
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Old 27 October 2021, 04:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Process View Post
Gosh, I wish I was smart enough to anticipate where all this is going…

Idk. I have this lingering unease that “something” is coming… Things can’t continue this way perpetually.

Same here in PA. No cars to be had anywhere. My wife and I are expecting a third child next year. Cannot believe we might be paying over sticker for a minivan. Again, beats me as to where all of this is going…

OP, good luck with the Tesla! Look forward to seeing pics, brother!
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My wife's uncle is owner in an engineering firm that designed and manufactures several carbon fiber composite components for the Dodge Hellcat engine and transmission. He said they devoted an entire wing of their manufacturing facility to the Hellcat parts, and it is sitting empty. They haven't produced a single part in over 6 months. All of that custom tooling and machinery is just sitting in the dark, collecting dust, and Dodge has no idea when they will even resume making it.
The problem with allowing all our semi-conductor sourcing to be TSMC and Samsung foundries. Hopefully Intel gets running with the expansions. I find it hard to believe that we can spend trillions of USDs elsewhere, but can't invest more public/grant money into foundries. Perhaps NVIDIA will save the day and heavily invest more into foundries if the ARM acquisition goes as planned. Need more 4 and 7nm capacity. As of now can't even get basic chips in the autos, which probably need less electronics and E waste as it is anyway.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-services.html
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Old 27 October 2021, 06:29 AM   #12
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Used trucks are being purchased at a premium up here in Canada, then shipped directly to the USA by wholesalers right now. They can't buy enough of them to keep up with demand..
I wholesale for a large OEM in the states. We're paying over new prices for trucks that are a year or two old with 300k on them...
Values have been climbing all year and we're predicting it to get even crazier.
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Old 27 October 2021, 07:54 AM   #13
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Actually, I thought of the same thing about buying Tesla. No need to do any dealer games, you see what you pay.

This is a crazy car market right now.
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Old 27 October 2021, 08:39 AM   #14
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Used trucks are being purchased at a premium up here in Canada, then shipped directly to the USA by wholesalers right now. They can't buy enough of them to keep up with demand..
I was offered on one of our fleet trucks with 80,000KM and a 2019 more than what we paid...a lot more
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Old 27 October 2021, 08:53 AM   #15
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How is inventory on Tesla looking right now?

I would sell the Fusion and enjoy the vette for a few months until this craziness winds down.
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Old 27 October 2021, 09:12 AM   #16
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Drove past a Jeep dealer on Saturday and their lot was full of new vehicles.
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Old 27 October 2021, 09:17 AM   #17
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It is crazy. Same situation here. I bought my car a few months ago. I have a client who is the General Manager for a dealership in Nebraska and he said they are shipping cars all over the country. The dealerships here have all changed from new cars to used cars right now and they are shipping cars everywhere, as well. Many new car dealers only have a handful of new cars in their showrooms and these are not for sale. They are just so people can actually see something so it looks like a new car dealer. Anything that arrives was already sold months ago so those cars don't even hit the lot. A big Toyota dealer told me that they have completely changed over to used cars right now and they have multiple lots filled with used cars. Not a single new car on the lot.

I had dinner with a friend on Friday who does fleet sales and leasing with GE Capital for big companies that need pickup trucks, delivery vans, and work vehicles like that. He said they have a large client who needs 500 trucks (combination of Ford/Chysler/GM) and he was told by all three manufacturers that there won't be anything for model year 2022 and they cannot get their client situated with new trucks until 2023!!! So the client is trying to hobble along with what they have and are just doing maintenance. My friend and his team are working with used vendors in some cases but those are small orders.

My company was told by GM that we can not get any 4x4 GMC or Chevrolet trucks until 2023. We replace at least 30 new trucks a year. The only trucks we could get this year were two wheel drive.


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Old 27 October 2021, 09:19 AM   #18
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Traded in my Tacoma last week for more than sticker. A 2020 with 13,500mi traded in for more than sticker. Blows my mind.

Picked up an Outback Wilderness at MSRP, shaved a year off my financing, got a better rate, and lower payments. Really just kind of crazy.
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Old 27 October 2021, 09:31 AM   #19
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Drove past a Jeep dealer on Saturday and their lot was full of new vehicles.
Now that you mention that, Jeep was the only dealer that had a lot of cars on the lot.
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Old 27 October 2021, 09:43 AM   #20
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What's even crazier is used car parts. My wife's Audi Q7 has been in the shop since June for replacement of the timing chains and tensioners. We've had so many issues getting parts that on several occasions we had to wait weeks for the parts to be made and then shipped from Germany. On many occasions we've literally purchased the only part in North America.

If I could get it back we could sell it for $5k MORE than what she paid for it 3 years ago with more miles. That's nuts.

A client of mine had a Suzuki and they've experienced similar issues where they had to wait for parts to come over from Japan.

I don't know how these big companies who need reliable fleet vehicles are going to be able to just get by with repairing what they've got. My shop said they are having these parts issues with American cars, too.

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Old 27 October 2021, 11:54 AM   #21
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I dunno. Good number of new cars here on lots in Minneapolis. Try some of those dealers, if you need to source a new vehicle and are willing to pay shipping.
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Old 27 October 2021, 12:39 PM   #22
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Yes well with paying over sticker on cars, whats the incentive to have things return to "normal"
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Old 27 October 2021, 12:44 PM   #23
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Drove past a Jeep dealer on Saturday and their lot was full of new vehicles.

I saw that too at the Long Beach Jeep Dealer. Seems like nobody wants a jeep haha. The Benz and toyota dealer looked like empty lots.
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Old 28 October 2021, 12:26 AM   #24
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A friend of mine had a Subaru a couple of years old. He leased it. The dealer bought it back from him for $7,000 more than he owed. He sold it back to him and bought a used vehicle a few years old. Needed a new set of wipers for my A6. Called a local NTB, they didn't carry them. Found a set at a local dealer, cost over $75.00 for the set!! Dealer said parts are difficult to get.
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Old 28 October 2021, 01:57 AM   #25
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I dunno. Good number of new cars here on lots in Minneapolis. Try some of those dealers, if you need to source a new vehicle and are willing to pay shipping.
Interesting. A lot can happen in two months. Are you in the market for a car right now? If that's the case, that's a huge and very much welcomed change from August when I bought my Audi, and I searched all spring and summer for the right one. It might be brand specific. Walser Toyota told me they have completely changed their business model across all of their dealerships from new cars to used right now and they are shipping all across the country. Out of all of their dealerships they didn't have any new cars other than a few for display. The Walser Toyota location off 494 and American Blvd has become a storage area for used cars for all of their dealerships around the state. They told me out of the 500+ cars parked on the lot they only had 4 new cars and they were only for customers to view and place orders. They had a 911 C4 cabriolet on the showroom floor and a Range Rover, at a Toyota dealer! LOL Anything new literally comes in, is cleaned up, and goes right to the customer who ordered it months ago.

Schmelz and Moterwerks were the same. Schmelz said they had zero new VW, Fiat or Alfa models on the lot and only 4 new VWs in the showroom, not for sale, so people could sit in them and place an order. They said they are taking orders but the wait is months long. Otherwise everything on the lot is all used and they are shipping across country.

All 3 Audi dealers told me the pickings were incredibly slim for new and Motorwerks, where I bought my Audi, said it's unlike anything they have seen. Again, the lots are packed full of cars but they are all used Audis, BMWs, and other makes.

I can only speak from my own experience this summer and from what all of the dealers told me, but at the time all of those cars that you see on lots when you drive down 494 or up in White Bear on 61... those were all used, not new.

Maybe it's different now, and I sure hope you are right, because car parts are very difficult to get now. The Pioneer Press did an article last week saying the average wait for car parts for repairs is 3 months. My mechanics told me the same on Friday. We still don't have my wife's Audi back (since June) and he said if I thought foreign was bad, they are having problems getting parts for basic Chevrolet right now.
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Old 28 October 2021, 05:07 AM   #26
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Paul, I'm sure you've seen this site but if not, a good way to search Tesla inventory - https://ev-cpo.com/
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Old 28 October 2021, 06:03 AM   #27
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Used trucks are being purchased at a premium up here in Canada, then shipped directly to the USA by wholesalers right now. They can't buy enough of them to keep up with demand..
I can attest to this. We bought 3 new F150s and an F250 in the past 9 months after unloading a 2008 GMC 2500HD Crew Cab Diesel with 190,000km, a 2008 GMC 3500HD Crew Cab Diesel with 180,000km, a 2016 F150 Crew Cab with 90,000km and a 2018 F150 Crew Cab with 38,000km. $25,000 for the 2500HD, $32,500 for the 3500HD, $32,000 (75% of purchase price) for the 2016 and $55,000 (more than purchase price) for the 2018. We had intended to keep the trucks and run them into the ground but with the strong values it made sense to move them.

Thankfully we have a Ford dealer friend who could supply us with trucks in a reasonable timeframe and still paid under MSRP.
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Old 28 October 2021, 06:12 AM   #28
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Used trucks are being purchased at a premium up here in Canada, then shipped directly to the USA by wholesalers right now. They can't buy enough of them to keep up with demand..
Quote:
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I was offered on one of our fleet trucks with 80,000KM and a 2019 more than what we paid...a lot more
That’s crazy!
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Old 28 October 2021, 06:44 AM   #29
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Took the last allocations for a 2022 Cayenne S Coupe a week ago.......Feel very lucky and a Excellent discount. Also trade in at all time high...$64k back for a 4 year old cayenne...
Great to have friend thats a sales manager at dealership.Now i have to wait till February for delivery.
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Old 28 October 2021, 09:04 AM   #30
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Recently I was looking for a second family car, this one for my wife. Every single car on the floor had a sign that there would be a 5K surcharge on top of the sticker price.
Needless to say, I am no longer looking for a second car.
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