Oyster Recorda

[bwalkerVintage]

Nice looking watch Mateus - you should be proud to have salvaged it! The Rolex I have was my grandfathers as well. He always wore it and I rarely take it off.

[Mateus]

Padi, thanks for the info about the movement – interesting.

And thanks for all your comments on how good it looks. I like it but I thought most would just say it was worthless.

Before taking the watch to the pro watchmaker for servicing, I took it to a local jewellers (in York) where they sell Rolex's. The guy there just wasn't interested & told be it wasn't a Rolex or anything special. So I'm pleased you guys think it's special!

It’s easy to get a bit carried away & romanticise an image… perhaps the watch was worn by a comrade of my Grandfather’s in WW2 who was killed & my Grandfather took his watch to remember him by… But I don’t really know any more other than he brought it back from the War – maybe he just found it (or stole it!).

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Padi, thanks for the info about the movement – interesting.

And thanks for all your comments on how good it looks. I like it but I thought most would just say it was worthless.

Before taking the watch to the pro watchmaker for servicing, I took it to a local jewellers (in York) where they sell Rolex's. The guy there just wasn't interested & told be it wasn't a Rolex or anything special. So I'm pleased you guys think it's special!

It’s easy to get a bit carried away & romanticise an image… perhaps the watch was worn by a comrade of my Grandfather’s in WW2 who was killed & my Grandfather took his watch to remember him by… But I don’t really know any more other than he brought it back from the War – maybe he just found it (or stole it!).

Glad to be of some help Matt.

[daytona1]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well looks like you have been proved wrong, on TRF
we adapt the policy " innocent until proved guilty ".





I guess now would be a good time to publicly apologise for doubting Mateus about his Recorda watch don't you think daytona1.

Theres a first time for everything I guess. As PADI states an apology in in order. I apologize!!!! Dont knock my spellingLOL

[redshirt1957]

Originally Posted by daytona1

Theres a first time for everything I guess. As PADI states an apology in in order. I apologize!!!! Dont knock my spellingLOL

First time you have been wrong or first time you have apologized?

[Mateus]

Thanks daytona1, apology accepted!

I've been doing a bit more research. As a complete noob, I think I understand want I have now but I've probably got lost along the way....

- The 'Oyster' means it has the Oyster case & crown from that period.
- 17 jewel means it has 17 jewels (rubies?), 1 for each wheel.
- Serial number (189420) means it possibly dates between 1940 - 1941.
- The movement is made by Swiss based Fontmelon who made a lot of movements for Rolex.
- It was distributed in the US & Canada by Frederick Gruen (1 of 3 brothers at the 'Rolex & Gruen' factories).
- As the Rolex name wasn't big in the US & Canada, these Oyster watches were named by employees - hence the unusual names.

Cheers,
M.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Thanks daytona1, apology accepted!

I've been doing a bit more research. As a complete noob, I think I understand want I have now but I've probably got lost along the way....

- The 'Oyster' means it has the Oyster case & crown from that period.
- 17 jewel means it has 17 jewels (rubies?), 1 for each wheel.
- Serial number (189420) means it possibly dates between 1940 - 1941.
- The movement is made by Swiss based Fontmelon who made a lot of movements for Rolex.
- It was distributed in the US & Canada by Frederick Gruen (1 of 3 brothers at the 'Rolex & Gruen' factories).
- As the Rolex name wasn't big in the US & Canada, these Oyster watches were named by employees - hence the unusual names.

Cheers,
M.

Almost true Matt but the Gruen side on the business ended mid 1930s well after your watch was made.During the Rolex early period many different types of watches were made, and Rolex did not have complete control over their movement factory, they were only a minority shareholder. The full name of the company tells the story "Aegler, Société Anonyme, Fabrique des Montres Rolex & Gruen Guild A.," this means, in translation, Aegler incorporated, manufacturer of Rolex & Gruen Guild A Watches. At this time ownership of the factory was split between three parties, Herman Aegler (movements), (Hans Wilsdorf of Rolex) and the Gruen brothers, Frederick Gruen and George Gruen.Now Aegler manufactured movements for both companies, who then sold the completed watches in their respective territories; Wilsdorf of Rolex, throughout Europe, Asia and the British Empire; whilst the Gruen brothers sold in the US only. This arrangement worked well until Rolex acquired the patent for the the Oyster case; now they had something new and special which they wished to sell all over the world, not just in their limited territory. However the three way partnership prohibited Rolex from selling their products with Aegler movement in the Gruen brothers' territory (and vice-versa). So Hans of Rolex being a very clever and shrewd man, took a sideways move and fitted their new Oyster cases with a movement from FHF (Fontmelon)factory just down the road from Gruen and then tried to find a US distributor.

They came across the firm of Abercrombie and Fitch,this was then a store specialising in sportsman's' equipment; whether you wanted to go elephant shooting in Africa, fishing for salmon or trout in Scotland, Abercrombie and Fitch was the place you went for all your equipment. Everything from fishing rods to double barrelled shotguns could be found under their roof. As the sportsman's store they seemed the ideal place to sell the first oyster watches, which were already building a reputation as the sportsman's watch. It may have seemed the ideal place but it did not work out that way, firstly because Rolex sold the cheaper down-market version of their watches in a high end store, and also because Abercrombie & Fitch did not advertise the watch sufficiently. These Abercrombie & Fitch watches are probably the rarest of all the cushion oysters, in all my life I have only ever seen one; it was signed "Abercrombie and Fitch (Seafarer) on the dial and the case and movement were signed Oyster Watch Company.The case was quite badly pitted because then they were made from a base metal, a chromed zinc material that did not last very long,a bit like the relationship between Rolex and Abercrombie & Fitch.Now they went on to become the USA distributor for The Swiss Heuer watches, probably more of a sportsman's watch to speak of, being mainly chronograph watches.


Now most of these problems were solved when Rolex gained the right to enter the US market themselves when the Gruen brothers left the board of Aegler in mid 1930s selling their shares to the two remaining parties; their place on the board of the company was taken by Emil Borer who really invented the oyster case,and who was Herman Aegler's brother in law, the technical director of Rolex, and much more significantly the man who supposedly invented the Perpetual movement for the company. But he just modified the aquired patent from the John Harwood patent from 1923 he was the first true inventor of the autowind wrist watch, but went bust late 1920s early 1930s.Now this new movement was the first one from Aegler (Rolex), that was not made available to Gruen, and so gave Rolex a unique advantage when they were able to take advantage of their new found ability to enter the US market; which they did just as the US entered WW11, around 1942.

[daytona1]

Originally Posted by redshirt1957

First time you have been wrong or first time you have apologized?

No. The first time I can remember in the recent past that a post with this format was a real watch.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by Mateus

- 17 jewel means it has 17 jewels (rubies?), 1 for each wheel.

Not necessarily. There are also pallet and roller jewels. Here's a good description:

http://elginwatches.org/help/watch_jewels.html

[Mateus]

Thanks all, especially to Padi for the all that info! Great stuff.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by padi56

Thanks Al but there are a few more as well the old memory not as good as it was

My memory's heading south too, but some of the Oyster Watch Co. models available to the Canadian market included (probably some repeats from your list)

Centregraph, Commander, Corvette, Edison, Grenfell, Hurricane, Junior Sport, Lipton, Neptune, Observatory (branded either Rolex Oyster Royal or Rolex Corvette), Pioneer, Raleigh, Recorda, Regent, Royal, Standard, Shipmate, Sky Rocket (Rolex), Standard, Zell Brothers Turtle Timer (U.S.).

The Canadian department store T. Eaton Company also sold Oysters badged as Solar Aqua and King of Wings, and their 25 year employees were given Rolex watches starting in 1928 with the Prince model. The dial was branded Eaton's, and the indexes were 1/4 C E N T U R Y C L U B (earlier versions were pocket watches).

[canadianeh]

Old post... But I just got this exact same watch from my grandfather...

He also gave my brother a small rectangle rolex which is the oldest looking thing I've seen - still haven't been able to date that one.

[jeff hess]

old post...but i just found another with a 185k serial.