The Crown speaks on counterfeits...

[Bizcut1]

Check this out:

https://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/r...erfeit-watches



Ben

[Yellowfury]

I can never understand owning a counterfeit. It would always bother me to look down my wrist and know I’m a fraud.

edit- i would say that this isn't 100% counterfeiting but they definitely should have disclosed that these aren't all rolex original parts. I can see why Rolex would be pissed when someone brings in one of these watches for service.

When I think counterfeits usually i think of the full on fakes that intend to deceive fully (like on the "replica" forums). Why spend $1000 on a "good" fake when you can spend that money on a watch with real heritage and craftsmanship?

[ken johnson972]

wow. thanks for the info

[nick_s_g]

About time they hit these guys.. there's a couple others that do this as well, name not coming to mind right now, which I've seen on Instagram.

It's a scam IMO, they take genuine watches, chop them up, and then still use the Rolex name for profit.

It would be one thing to take the Rolex name off, but they appeal to consumers as legit Rolex products with character when it's basically a Frankenwatch

[JD305]

I agree with Rolex here ... since none of these alterations are authorized and the company is profiting highly by piggybacking on the Rolex brand name.

Collaborative work between brands is not new though ...

Ford & Shelby
Ferrari & Pininfarina
Rolex & Tiffany
BMW & LV
Taco Bell & Doritos
etc ....

There is a company that makes limited number series blacked out Rolex "Prohunter", engraved caseback and the word "Prohunter" in red on the Rolex dial ... Rolex does not authorize these watches because they are "customized". I've seen some PH Rolex and they are new models that are customized, very high quality finish, and all original Rolex parts are maintained on the watch.

So the issue here with this company is the use of replica dials and parts ... and also shoddy workmanship putting everything together. Purchasing a used DJ and slapping on a colorful dial and strap ... then charging an extra $5K on top.

[JacksonStone]

Interesting. I visited their website. They claim, "Each watch is given the utmost attention to detail including servicing the movement and refinishing the case to the original specifications in which the watch left the factory." That could be problematic, if they're not servicing with authentic parts.

Also, "Each dial and strap is hand-painted to produce a unique timepiece." If they're painting authentic dials, they are altered, but I would not call them counterfeit.

Here's the clincher, though: "We guarantee our timepieces to be 100% authentic and as described or we will refund your money. You may return the watch for any reason within the inspection period if you are not completely satisfied." That's a bold claim, and subject to interpretation of what it means for a watch to be "authentic." Rolex obviously disagrees, and is putting their opinion to the test. I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

[dhknola]

I would never spend the money on one, but they are popular for a reason, in that people are A-OK with getting a 'butchered Rolex' in the name of uniqueness.
I agree with The Crown instituting legal action as they are with in their right to do so, but I think that despite Rolex not wanting alterations like this happen, the market demands it, be it this company, Bamford or any other haute alteration companies.
They never will, but instead of fighting it, Rolex should partner with one of these companies, authorize limited editions and sell them for small fortunes.

[GONZO2LR]

i tried to read...but stomach started hurting....

[037]

So, if one buys a Corvette that has been repainted in a custom color it's still a genuine Corvette and Chevy doesn't care.

But, if one buys a Rolex that has been repainted in a custom color it's a counterfeit and Rolex cares.

Makes perfect sense.

[blada4life]

interesting; however, how do they distinguish those from companies like Artisans De Geneve. My understanding is they produce all materials in house, like the carbon bezels for the daytona and the skeletal dial and caseback. Isnt that a similar definition to counterfeit a rolex, that Rolex is using here in this lawsuit? Or is Rolex simply deciding not to pursue them because they are high end and have a bit of respect among collectors, etc.... makes no sense. Its the same approach to watch modding. Or is Rolex planning on pursuing suits against these modders as well?

I understand their position but they need to apply it against everyone, they consider a Rolex counterfeit when the dial is adjusted/changed, crystal, hands, movement parts etc.... thats exactly what the New ADG La Montoya and La Blausee (among other models) have done, albeit alot more tasteful and high end - but so what?! Why not go after ADG too? ADG makes a very nice watch, but the only original parts are the bracelet, case and random movement parts, that have also been painted, plated, etc.

I actually agree with Rolex here, the companies are profiting off of their image, R&D and brand. Aside from TRF'ers, there is confusion in the marketplace and given the watch is 80% changed, putting a rolex logo back on the watch (even if came off of a genuine rolex), is counterfeiting in my opinion. It would be a different story if they offered a customization service (which they do), and you brought in YOUR watch and customized it.

[mmaggi]

There have been plenty of Rolexes on Chrono24 with aftermarket dials & bezels (I prefer aftermarket vs counterfeit). Personally I don't care for anything aftermarket that is used on a Rolex.

[exador]

Interesting. Wonder why Rolex never went after Bamford then?

[Onikage]

Originally Posted by exador

Interesting. Wonder why Rolex never went after Bamford then?

With monstrosities like those. I'd agree.

[BigBoy17]

Prob because bamford kicks up some percentage to rolex of sales....

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Onikage

With monstrosities like those. I'd agree.

Yeah, those are kinda gross, but the Tempus Machina pieces are quite nice, depending on one's taste. I don't support fakes, but I find these kinds of mods to be a nice side avenue of our pursuit.

[HansSolo]

Originally Posted by 037

So, if one buys a Corvette that has been repainted in a custom color it's still a genuine Corvette and Chevy doesn't care.

But, if one buys a Rolex that has been repainted in a custom color it's a counterfeit and Rolex cares.

Makes perfect sense.

The problem is painting the dial has compromised Rolex claims of robust waterproofness and quality, therefore the painting affects performance. Painting a car won't affect it's ability to transport (maybe a little off its aerodynamics) ;)

[037]

Originally Posted by HansSolo

The problem is painting the dial has compromised Rolex claims of robust waterproofness and quality, therefore the painting affects performance. Painting a car won't affect it's ability to transport (maybe a little off its aerodynamics) ;)

Painting a dial won't affect water resistance but I get your broader point. Rolex could simply deny service just like Chevy could do the same on a modified Corvette.

A company can only control so much. It's as if Rolex is trying to license its products rather than sell them.

[Acidstain]

Originally Posted by HansSolo

The problem is painting the dial has compromised Rolex claims of robust waterproofness and quality, therefore the painting affects performance. Painting a car won't affect it's ability to transport (maybe a little off its aerodynamics) ;)

How? The dial is completely encased inside. Is it because it’s been opened and resealed by non-rsc? Resealing a rolex case isn’t rocket science. Any competent watchmaker can do this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wahlberg]

I would say, let them be. The watches look fun and quirky.

Bamford and others should get sued for the shit they made. But Bamford quit as well since he got another hookup. So go figure.

[schoolboy]

Thanks for sharing!

[onnomon]

The only thing I could possibly see as counterfeit is placement of the Rolex name on the dial. That makes the dial counterfeit. Do you really think the case, movement, bracelet, clasp are counterfeit?

[RJRJRJ]

I think it will come down to how they are representing the watch. Rolex will argue that they are trying to pass it of as an original watch from Rolex, thereby piggybacking off the Rolex brand.

[HansSolo]

Originally Posted by Acidstain

How? The dial is completely encased inside. Is it because it’s been opened and resealed by non-rsc? Resealing a rolex case isn’t rocket science. Any competent watchmaker can do this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apparently the science is strong with this one..

"Rolex says that in addition to containing non-Rolex parts, both watches’ bezels were “bent and not properly fitted to the watch, and therefore [making it so that] water is likely to leak through, and ultimately, adversely affect the dial and movement of the watch,” among other alleged flaws."

[rexG]

Go get em Rolex!

[JadeRaven]

I wonder.

There is a difference between customizing watches, selling custom watches, and selling "authentic Rolex" watches from old Rolex and non-Rolex parts.

Re the Chevy comparison made above, you can bet your ass that if somebody was putting together new Yukon Denalis from old OEM and aftermarket parts and selling them as a legit competitor to GMC's own product, GM would have a problem with that. But of course the economics don't work. But with veblen goods, the story is different.

A more apt comparison would be something along the lines of some third party manufacturing new Hermes Birkin bags (throwing in some portion of old birkin scraps along with new leather for "authenticity") and selling them as Hermes Birkin bags. I think Hermes would be right in reigning that in.

Should make for an interesting case.

[Montremoi]

I didn't know about that brand, and I like what they're doing. Pop-art Rolexes be lookin good

Though I can see how this annoys Rolex, since the brand slyly omits to mention that these mods are voiding any kind of warranty or after-sale service from Rolex, it's equally hypocritical to cry "counterfeit". These aren't brand new copycats, merely customised yet genuine watches.

And far as I know, you can't forbid people from modding what they rightfully bought. So I can't see how Rolex's claim could hold ; at best they could force the brand to more clearly disassociate itself from Rolex.

[037]

Originally Posted by JadeRaven

There is a difference between customizing watches, selling custom watches, and selling "authentic Rolex" watches from old Rolex and non-Rolex parts.

Semantics of "authentic" seems to be the rub. That's where I agree there's a disconnect.

Originally Posted by JadeRaven

Re the Chevy comparison made above, you can bet your ass that if somebody was putting together new Yukon Denalis from old OEM and aftermarket parts and selling them as a legit competitor to GMC's own product, GM would have a problem with that. But of course the economics don't work. But with veblen goods, the story is different.

But, this isn't that. My example was of a painted car to match up with what appears to be a painted watch. Yes, the dials are painted but paint seems to be the major component involved. If Rolex is scrutinizing paint then there are far more companies to lump together with this one, all of which are piggybacking off of the Rolex brand.

[Bizcut1]

It caught my eye this morning mostly because "the Crown" rarely speaks...as we know.

[R G]

Originally Posted by Yellowfury

I can never understand owning a counterfeit. It would always bother me to look down my wrist and know I’m a fraud.

edit- i would say that this isn't 100% counterfeiting but they definitely should have disclosed that these aren't all rolex original parts. I can see why Rolex would be pissed when someone brings in one of these watches for service.

When I think counterfeits usually i think of the full on fakes that intend to deceive fully (like on the "replica" forums). Why spend $1000 on a "good" fake when you can spend that money on a watch with real heritage and craftsmanship?

Times are changing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upAJE_XhT2Y

[AK797]

One of the good things about Insta is that these replicas cannot be easily shown off there, which is what everyone seems to want to do now, in real life I don't think anyone can tell if its real or not so no chance of being called out but not so under the microscope of Insta, so hopefully that will lead to many more saving up and getting the real thing.