Goodbye AP ADs

[wiswrist]

Originally Posted by PJ S

40K, for the past 12 months, at least.

Correct. It's been 40K for the past couple years and that will continue for 2018 and 2019.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5YodO_iNZ0

Start around the 8 minute mark if you don't want to watch the whole thing.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Submarino

They don't need ADs that end up selling slightly above cost to grey dealers and hurting their brand. AP is so coveted and hot right now that the real customers of the brand are OK with paying full price at the boutiques.

Some of us are “real” customers (whatever that means) who have purchased from boutiques and ADs many, many times. But of course unless you buy from the same boutique each and every time AP doesn’t care. In this respect PP is better at keeping track of who truly supports the brand. But there really is no room in the AP brand anymore for those of us who only spend 50k’ish per year on APs. Not everything is about the discount.

[Vipes]

Originally Posted by mustangtornado

Looks like AP is going boutique-only. This will be great for value retention...but if there are any pieces you’re interested in that your AD has, this might be your last chance at getting an AP discount.
I know this has been rumored for a while but it’s happening. How quickly is the only question.

Did you hear this from the Dallas AD?

[SMD]

Originally Posted by SC11

I was under the impression Wempe have lost AP?!

I know Cellini is not carrying anymore in NY. Not sure about Wempe. Still had them 3 weeks ago when I was there.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

thats the issue i think. AP is banking on the fact you will travel thousands of miles or that a few locations will maintain the same level of sales with local customers. I just dont think it will. Time will tell though

Good luck with that AP. Even though I don't really like the way TS is running Patek, he at least supports his AD's and isn't moving to a boutique only model.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SMD

Some of us are “real” customers (whatever that means) who have purchased from boutiques and ADs many, many times. But of course unless you buy from the same boutique each and every time AP doesn’t care. In this respect PP is better at keeping track of who truly supports the brand. But there really is no room in the AP brand anymore for those of us who only spend 50k’ish per year on APs. Not everything is about the discount.

this is true. Walking into APSC with 3 watches for service or pressure testing and another AP on my wrist. As far as they were concerned I bought them at walmart. AP clients get preferred treatment is the line there, i guess im not an AP client.... And i spent close to 100k on AP watches that year.

Its the attitude that turned me off and the general disinterest. Its not the boutique only model. In principle im fine with that, but from past experience i want to avoid dealing with AP directly so ive bought my last one rather than deal with them directly. Im fine with the watches... most of them anyway.

You dont have to discount a product people actually want no matter who is selling it. So the discount argument is a red herring in all of this to avoid the issue of certain design decisions and production numbers on certain watches.

[GB-man]

I don't want to pay msrp for APs...Then I am left holding the bag when they lower prices.

I need margin for their inept pricing models.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I don't want to pay msrp for APs...Then I am left holding the bag when they lower prices.

I need margin for their inept pricing models.

Good point. Imagine buying the 44 ceramic anthracite only to have them drop the price the next year by over 10k. The discounts happened because AP’s pricing was off.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by SMD

Good point. Imagine buying the 44 ceramic anthracite only to have them drop the price the next year by over 10k. The discounts happened because AP’s pricing was off.

Hell, a few years back they dropped the MSRP on the 44mm platinum from just under 100k to 69k.

I've said it before, but I'm not playing silly little games with a matchmaker or "establishing relationships" or sucking up to sales staff. AP made, what, 2 watches in the last 3 years that command a premium and suddenly think their watches cure cancer. Pass.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

I've said it before, but I'm not playing silly little games with a matchmaker or "establishing relationships" or sucking up to sales staff. AP made, what, 2 watches in the last 3 years that command a premium and suddenly think their watches cure cancer. Pass.

obviously you are not alone here which begs the question...Who are AP's clients these days? I seriously dont know as many, many previously loyal customers are falling away. I just dont understand what they are playing at. Its not just one thing, its a combination of things over the past year which in total is just strange.

Business 101: its much cheaper to keep an existing customer than to get another one.... anywhere from 5X to 25X more expensive to get a new one actually.

[Rmoor]

There's always Hublot. Plenty of stock at many dealers and boutiques all over. Hahaha in ready to be flamed by saying this

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Rmoor

There's always Hublot. Plenty of stock at many dealers and boutiques all over. Hahaha in ready to be flamed by saying this

oh i already said i would rather be Hublot these days than AP. AP is pretty stagnant where as Hublot is hungry and trying to be more than what they are. Reputation only carries you so far. Still not ready to buy a Hublot though.

[christianj]

I could swear that I recently heard that the AD in CT was expanding their AP setup. I wonder if the "no ADs" really means that the ADs will be required to offer a boutique setup within their locations for AP rather than AP going to boutique only locations like NYC.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by christianj

I could swear that I recently heard that the AD in CT was expanding their AP setup. I wonder if the "no ADs" really means that the ADs will be required to offer a boutique setup within their locations for AP rather than AP going boutique only.

doubt that matters. Boutique in this context is AP direct sales to customer and AP direct control. Thus no dealer margins and they sell them themselves. I doubt its going to happen overnight, but AD's are already not getting any popular watches from AP. It's a bad move for any AD to expand AP's presence in their store.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

the only problem is AP is too cheap to actually open new boutiques. They are opening lounges instead.... "Lounge Only" doesn't sound as good either.

Many companies hide lack of growth by increasing revenue through increasing profit margins. AP is doing just that. They even announced a 12% increase in profit. The only problem was that was because of higher average selling price per watch (cutting out AD's). They are not growing at all actually and their brand footprint is decreasing.

The US in particular with its vast geographic size needs AD's if AP is going to be successful. IMO they are already not doing that well in the US anyway as they are not very widely known. With only a few boutiques, AP is setting themselves up to fail.

The new Harrods watch department now has APs U.K. boutique status.


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[SC11]

Originally Posted by AshAP

The new Harrods watch department now has APs U.K. boutique status.


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Spoke with Daniel about that today it’s still not completed and will be one of the last in the fine watch room to be finished.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AshAP

The new Harrods watch department now has APs U.K. boutique status.


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is it open? Is it a concession? IE are you buying from Harrods (the government of Qatar) or from AP? The US has quasi-boutiques that are still AD's, i think HK has one too.

This is an important distinction. Harrods reward points or no harrods reward points?

[Rmoor]

It's pretty crazy times in the watch world. AP has issues with their 3126 movement and can't figure out a solution other than Service after the sale. Even if AP service has quick turn around times, it's not the best feeling sending in a new watch that cost over $30k retail within a few months of ownership. Add that to a first time buyer that goes to an AD to browse and the display case is empty. All these issues are turning away potential buyers. Now less ADs will make it even more difficult to browse. I guess if there are fewer ADs the boutiques will be overflowing with inventory so that's a bonus I guess

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Rmoor

It's pretty crazy times in the watch world. AP has issues with their 3126 movement and can't figure out a solution other than Service after the sale. Even if AP service has quick turn around times, it's not the best feeling sending in a new watch that cost over $30k retail within a few months of ownership. Add that to a first time buyer that goes to an AD to browse and the display case is empty. All these issues are turning away potential buyers. Now less ADs will make it even more difficult to browse. I guess if there are fewer ADs the boutiques will be overflowing with inventory so that's a bonus I guess

that is my problem recently. Im not making an appointment to look at watches and they dont really do that in a normal sense anyway. Its more "order a watch" and wait for it to come in. There had been about 5 or 6 AP's that i would have been interested in but its too hard to even see one let alone all 6. Worst part is unlike Patek, they dont have a place where they have all models on display (not for sale) to try on. Patek does this in geneva. I would have traveled there to try on watches, seriously.... but they dont even do that (at least in a place that is open to the public and not the invite only manufacture)

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

the only problem is AP is too cheap.......

Tyler when referring to AP anything that starts like this is pure BS. Just look at the way AP puts on events for their clients and also take the factory visits, which since they are 1st class all the way and paid for by the brand are the antithesis of ‘cheap’.

I know you chose to turn down your factory visit invitation but that doesn’t give you the right to refer to the brand as cheap.

You’re a nice guy but where AP is concerned you need to get your facts in order.




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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Tyler when referring to AP anything that starts like this is pure BS. Just look at the way AP puts on events for their clients and also take the factory visits, which since they are 1st class all the way and paid for by the brand are the antithesis of ‘cheap’.

I know you chose to turn down your factory visit invitation but that doesn’t give you the right to refer to the brand as cheap.

You’re a nice guy but where AP is concerned you need to get your facts in order.




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Sorry but their CEO said it is cheaper to do lounges, not me. That is a fact

"above-ground-level retail spaces where the focus will be on a premium customer experience rather than costly build-outs for showcase spaces with premium rents. The first are scheduled to open in London, Munich and New York by the end of this year."

Too cheap to build a boutique is a fair statement. That was the context of the statement as i made clear.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Sorry but their CEO said it is cheaper to do lounges, not me. That is a fact

Keeping an eye on finances and being cheap are very different. Cheaper and being cheap aren’t the same.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Keeping an eye on finances and being cheap are very different. Cheaper and being cheap aren’t the same.


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that is semantics, but fair enough. A boutique was supposedly in the works for a long time and then they dropped the lounge and a partnership with harrods instead. Its less premium and less prestigious, cheap or eye on finances is debatable.

I never said AP trips were cheap, the watches were cheap, the brand is bad. I like the watches(most of them), believe it or not. Id buy one or two probably if my AD carried them.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

obviously you are not alone here which begs the question...Who are AP's clients these days? I seriously dont know as many, many previously loyal customers are falling away. I just dont understand what they are playing at. Its not just one thing, its a combination of things over the past year which in total is just strange.

Business 101: its much cheaper to keep an existing customer than to get another one.... anywhere from 5X to 25X more expensive to get a new one actually.

I'm not sure, and part of the problem is the execution sucks. It's clearly a money grab by the company, which is fine, but they need some narrative of how this benefits customers at large.

It's obviously great for the .01% who have been paying full price at on boutique for awhile. The rest of us would have to spend feverishly to dislodge those customers already in place. When I've spoken to sales staff about that fact, their reaction ranges from smug to empathetic, but there's never talk about how this will benefit the other 99.99% of AP's loyal customers.

Are they committed to increasing quality? Are they committed to increasing value retention across more than 1 or 2 models?

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

I'm not sure, and part of the problem is the execution sucks. It's clearly a money grab by the company, which is fine, but they need some narrative of how this benefits customers at large.



It's obviously great for the .01% who have been paying full price at on boutique for awhile. The rest of us would have to spend feverishly to dislodge those customers already in place. When I've spoken to sales staff about that fact, their reaction ranges from smug to empathetic, but there's never talk about how this will benefit the other 99.99% of AP's loyal customers.



Are they committed to increasing quality? Are they committed to increasing value retention across more than 1 or 2 models?

Unless you are willing to drop 250k on a piece that will sink like a stone as soon as you leave the store you aren’t a real customer.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

I'm not sure, and part of the problem is the execution sucks. It's clearly a money grab by the company, which is fine, but they need some narrative of how this benefits customers at large.

It's obviously great for the .01% who have been paying full price at on boutique for awhile. The rest of us would have to spend feverishly to dislodge those customers already in place. When I've spoken to sales staff about that fact, their reaction ranges from smug to empathetic, but there's never talk about how this will benefit the other 99.99% of AP's loyal customers.

Are they committed to increasing quality? Are they committed to increasing value retention across more than 1 or 2 models?

despite my service issue with AP, i dont think the quality is taking a nosedive. Its still there. Service issues on new watches is strange, but they fix them well.

Its true that how this benefits the customer is vague. It seems like they are not interested with communication with this lack of information on monumental changes. Then we sit on forums and speculate. That is a problem. What do we get vs what we have to give up? Better waitlist procedures? More availability? Less grey market watches (which i think of as a positive)? Tell us.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by SMD

Some of us are “real” customers (whatever that means) who have purchased from boutiques and ADs many, many times. But of course unless you buy from the same boutique each and every time AP doesn’t care. In this respect PP is better at keeping track of who truly supports the brand. But there really is no room in the AP brand anymore for those of us who only spend 50k’ish per year on APs. Not everything is about the discount.

This is not my experience at all, I have bought APs for around 16 years (always brand new), but I’ve only owned 4 and yet I feel very valued as a customer.


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[tng11]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Hell, a few years back they dropped the MSRP on the 44mm platinum from just under 100k to 69k.

I've said it before, but I'm not playing silly little games with a matchmaker or "establishing relationships" or sucking up to sales staff. AP made, what, 2 watches in the last 3 years that command a premium and suddenly think their watches cure cancer. Pass.

I had to go look this up - wow. Apparently the 44mm PT was 112K at introduction, and they dropped the price to $69,200 on Feb 1st, 2013.

They also had pretty big price drops on the CE and SS.

That's a massive devaluation, and should give anyone pause at buying APs at full MSRP!

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by tng11

I had to go look this up - wow. Apparently the 44mm PT was 112K at introduction, and they dropped the price to $69,200 on Feb 1st, 2013.

They also had pretty big price drops on the CE and SS.

That's a massive devaluation, and should give anyone pause at buying APs at full MSRP!

Yup. And now they go for about 40k on the secondary market. The new 44s were holding up well for a few months, but now seem to be taking a hit, too. I get that devaluation is a factor with any brand and maybe this will help mitigate some of that, but that should be what sales reps are telling customers, not "sucks for you."

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Yup. And now they go for about 40k on the secondary market. The new 44s were holding up well for a few months, but now seem to be taking a hit, too. I get that devaluation is a factor with any brand and maybe this will help mitigate some of that, but that should be what sales reps are telling customers, not "sucks for you."

they took a big hit. I sold my RG44, new dial. Personally i am not in the it has to be an investment camp. I just what availability. I expect to lose money when i sell so i try not to do it too often. Retail price drops are very bad though. That cant happen and still maintain any level of trust. Im sure its a big reason people dont pay retail and go grey.