new pateks 2024?

[Etschell]

they are pushing PM because the amount per watch is more and you make more off PM than SS per unit.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by AK797

They will do well to intro a new sports line to replace/compete with the Naut/Aqua. AP have done a pretty good job with the once much derided Code, which is now quite popular here, so AP for all the shots they take at being just about the Royal Oaks have actually done something new which PP will hope to emulate.

Sorry, but there’s nothing to emulate from AP except all the collabs (which I find tacky and hope Patek doesn’t do).

AP has been a mono watch brand, the RO. Patek has a deep line of watches, and while there’s a lot of hype around the Nautilius, most Patek owners aren’t listing after that as their only piece. AP has been looking towards Patek to build out their line of watches beyond the RO, which the Code has started. Most still see AP as only the RO.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by Etschell

they are pushing PM because the amount per watch is more and you make more off PM than SS per unit.

TS talked about this in one of his interviews. The view point was more that as a luxury watch he needs most watches to be in gold, as a precious metal, and it makes the overall watches at a higher tier (ie more expensive). He is only willing to make a certain percentage of watches in stainless. He said he could do more, and they will all sell, but it will dilute the overall brand.

What it comes down to, is it the cheapest Patek is $30k, you know anyone wearing a Patek spent at least $30k. (Not assuming secondary prices being less). If you have a bunch of watches that are $15k in stainless, it lowers the entry into Patek.

If the market stays the way it is, I think Patek will only do stainless pieces when it comes with a complication, justifying a higher price.

[Eastie]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

TS talked about this in one of his interviews. The view point was more that as a luxury watch he needs most watches to be in gold, as a precious metal, and it makes the overall watches at a higher tier (ie more expensive). He is only willing to make a certain percentage of watches in stainless. He said he could do more, and they will all sell, but it will dilute the overall brand.

What it comes down to, is it the cheapest Patek is $30k, you know anyone wearing a Patek spent at least $30k. (Not assuming secondary prices being less). If you have a bunch of watches that are $15k in stainless, it lowers the entry into Patek.

If the market stays the way it is, I think Patek will only do stainless pieces when it comes with a complication, justifying a higher price.

I think this would be a long-term mistake from Patek. The SS sports watches were a great entry point for younger, less financially established clients to build a connection with Patek. That was literally why the Aquanaut was introduced in the 90s. It was looked down on by older collectors as being too simple, cheap, and minimalist to be a "real" Patek.

Nowadays with a realistic entry point into Patek being $30-60K, there are a whole generation of younger watch enthusiasts in their late 20s to early 40s where the barrier of entry is simply too daunting. And by the time they're in their late 50s and 60s with maximal spending power, they won't have any affinity for Patek.

Raising average selling price and gross margin today by pushing precious metals is sacrificing the future to benefit the present. Maybe the Sterns are looking to juice the numbers before they sell to LVMH or Richemont lol

[DonLee]

Originally Posted by Eastie

The SS sports watches were a great entry point for younger, less financially established clients to build a connection with Patek.

stainless steel pateks has ALWAYS been restrictively made. They used to ONLY make precious metal watches. entry point price? it is a well known fact that any "entry level" stainless steel patek for men would be the hottest item on the market, and then clients will start complaining about the speculators destroying the Patek experience

[Eastie]

Originally Posted by DonLee

stainless steel pateks has ALWAYS been restrictively made. They used to ONLY make precious metal watches. entry point price? it is a well known fact that any "entry level" stainless steel patek for men would be the hottest item on the market, and then clients will start complaining about the speculators destroying the Patek experience

This is only recently true. Even as recent as like 2013-2015, SS sports models were sitting in display cases and could be had at retail for a 10-15% discount (and that was when MSRP was already low, for example 5711 was $26K). Don't believe me? Search the forum back then.

I think what would be smarter is for PP to reserve the Aquanaut line as a first-time watch for clients under 35 years old, available in SS, with reasonable MSRPs (under $30K for 5167a, under $40K for 5164a, under $50K for 5968a).

The goal should be for the brand to use SS sports watches as a "hook" to get younger clientele into the brand and then build them up in their purchase journey towards $100K+ grand comps.

AP does an incredible job of this with their pricing segmentation strategy. Their entry watches are all under $30K (41mm RO, Code 11.59 3-hander, ROO 3-hander). But by the time a client is purchasing their 3rd or 4th watch, it's a $60K+ one.

[bobernet]

I’m not sure why so many comments seem to think Patek needs product strategy and marketing advice. They haven’t been struggling financially at any time I can recall.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by Eastie

This is only recently true. Even as recent as like 2013-2015, SS sports models were sitting in display cases and could be had at retail for a 10-15% discount (and that was when MSRP was already low, for example 5711 was $26K). Don't believe me? Search the forum back then.

I think what would be smarter is for PP to reserve the Aquanaut line as a first-time watch for clients under 35 years old, available in SS, with reasonable MSRPs (under $30K for 5167a, under $40K for 5164a, under $50K for 5968a).

The goal should be for the brand to use SS sports watches as a "hook" to get younger clientele into the brand and then build them up in their purchase journey towards $100K+ grand comps.

AP does an incredible job of this with their pricing segmentation strategy. Their entry watches are all under $30K (41mm RO, Code 11.59 3-hander, ROO 3-hander). But by the time a client is purchasing their 3rd or 4th watch, it's a $60K+ one.

Yep. As someone under 35 id love to see this and think it’s a great practice away from the high brow “gatekeeping”.

Agree that AP is much better here, I think in part due to the fact that they control their own POS and don’t have 3rd party retailers

[subtona]

.

[justdate]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

Yep. As someone under 35 id love to see this and think it’s a great practice away from the high brow “gatekeeping”.

Agree that AP is much better here, I think in part due to the fact that they control their own POS and don’t have 3rd party retailers

Also under 35 (by a matter of days!!) but started getting into watches when I was 20, so been around a while. The thing is, when the aquanaut was £15k, that money would pick you up a full gold day date or full gold GMT2 from a trusted seller. It was 3x the cost of a brand new steel sub. A brand new Royal Oak 15400st was also a good bit cheaper.

So it was still relatively very expensive, and completely prohibitive. I remember in 2011 my boss had one and me and my friends could not figure out why the hell anyone would spend that much money on something that looked like it belonged in the 70s! It was not ‘cool’ then either, so it really was a pretty left field choice. I used to go around London ADs on my weekends and try on all the dress watches admiring their beauty and heritage. Sure putting on a 5980/1R was a blast, but never the steel basics like 5711 or 5167, they really didn’t appeal to most people at the time, and were not what we knew Patek for.

Point being they were never a good entry point for regular enthusiasts. I personally bought my first Patek a few years later in 2015, I wanted a proper dress watch, since that is what Patek meant to me - and most people too. I’d had a good year so I went 5205R but otherwise it would have been the Calatrava - which is not only quintessentially Patek, but also the ideal entry model into the brand. The perfect one and done, and also the perfect start of a collection.

[Yellowfury]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

Yep. As someone under 35 id love to see this and think it’s a great practice away from the high brow “gatekeeping”.

Agree that AP is much better here, I think in part due to the fact that they control their own POS and don’t have 3rd party retailers

Originally Posted by justdate

Also under 35 (by a matter of days!!) but started getting into watches when I was 20, so been around a while. The thing is, when the aquanaut was £15k, that money would pick you up a full gold day date or full gold GMT2 from a trusted seller. It was 3x the cost of a brand new steel sub. A brand new Royal Oak 15400st was also a good bit cheaper.

So it was still relatively very expensive, and completely prohibitive. I remember in 2011 my boss had one and me and my friends could not figure out why the hell anyone would spend that much money on something that looked like it belonged in the 70s! It was not ‘cool’ then either, so it really was a pretty left field choice. I used to go around London ADs on my weekends and try on all the dress watches admiring their beauty and heritage. Sure putting on a 5980/1R was a blast, but never the steel basics like 5711 or 5167, they really didn’t appeal to most people at the time, and were not what we knew Patek for.

Point being they were never a good entry point for regular enthusiasts. I personally bought my first Patek a few years later in 2015, I wanted a proper dress watch, since that is what Patek meant to me - and most people too. I’d had a good year so I went 5205R but otherwise it would have been the Calatrava - which is not only quintessentially Patek, but also the ideal entry model into the brand. The perfect one and done, and also the perfect start of a collection.

hello my fellow younger WIS lol. Also not yet 35 (but will also hit that much later this year). I'm just barely in the spot to even look at the "cheaper" preowned calatrava market of the 20k range and would have to stretch to make the 6119G happen. VC and AP feel more attainable (even if they truly aren't) just due to pricing.

[norcalgt3]

Originally Posted by Eastie

I think this would be a long-term mistake from Patek. The SS sports watches were a great entry point for younger, less financially established clients to build a connection with Patek. That was literally why the Aquanaut was introduced in the 90s. It was looked down on by older collectors as being too simple, cheap, and minimalist to be a "real" Patek.

Nowadays with a realistic entry point into Patek being $30-60K, there are a whole generation of younger watch enthusiasts in their late 20s to early 40s where the barrier of entry is simply too daunting. And by the time they're in their late 50s and 60s with maximal spending power, they won't have any affinity for Patek.

Raising average selling price and gross margin today by pushing precious metals is sacrificing the future to benefit the present. Maybe the Sterns are looking to juice the numbers before they sell to LVMH or Richemont lol

Lots of rich young buyers these days for Patek. Especially for a brand that only produces 60k or so watches a year.

[Medem]

Originally Posted by yoast

Lazy releases IMO

Agree, but there may be more.
I like the new “jeans” colour.
I am not a huge fan of precious metal on luxury sports watches. Steel on a luxury sports watch does not bother me much. The way I see it, luxury is a bit beyond “value”.

[ts3]

Speaking about steel I wouldn't be all to surprised if the new WT with date is steel rather than WG (I can't tell from the rendering).

Another thought is that the green fad seems to be in the rear view mirror with all the grey blue dials this year.

Overall a pretty lazy release so far with some nice watches nonetheless.

[d33nastyle]

Originally Posted by justdate

Also under 35 (by a matter of days!!) but started getting into watches when I was 20, so been around a while. The thing is, when the aquanaut was £15k, that money would pick you up a full gold day date or full gold GMT2 from a trusted seller. It was 3x the cost of a brand new steel sub. A brand new Royal Oak 15400st was also a good bit cheaper.

So it was still relatively very expensive, and completely prohibitive. I remember in 2011 my boss had one and me and my friends could not figure out why the hell anyone would spend that much money on something that looked like it belonged in the 70s! It was not ‘cool’ then either, so it really was a pretty left field choice. I used to go around London ADs on my weekends and try on all the dress watches admiring their beauty and heritage. Sure putting on a 5980/1R was a blast, but never the steel basics like 5711 or 5167, they really didn’t appeal to most people at the time, and were not what we knew Patek for.

Point being they were never a good entry point for regular enthusiasts. I personally bought my first Patek a few years later in 2015, I wanted a proper dress watch, since that is what Patek meant to me - and most people too. I’d had a good year so I went 5205R but otherwise it would have been the Calatrava - which is not only quintessentially Patek, but also the ideal entry model into the brand. The perfect one and done, and also the perfect start of a collection.

I think exactly the same, more than 10 years ago I found it inconceivable to spend almost 20k in a 3hands in steel ... i bought my first Rolex for 3700€ at this period :fumer:

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by pessoa00

If anything, by having fewer and fewer steel pieces, they become more sought after ... If I had to guess, Patek is slowly discontinuing steel aquanauts and nautiluses in order to move these hyped lines more upscale ...

You're right this is indeed another possibility

[Vasco]

There is a last thought I had this week-end...

It could also be IA generated material.

I have friends who've been playing with those apps lately and made incredible rendering of pictures, themes, whether you make it a 100% generated one or you bring your own picture to play with.

Hence, it would be easy to through some pictures of the current line-up (screenshots from the Patek app) and ask "a 5980, blue dial, fabrics blue strap", etc...

This would explain the "HOME" misplaced on the Aquanaut, the "eaten" 12 on the 5520.

This vould also explain why Patek didn't already ask if those leaks could be removed (maybe it's not the policiy to remove them on the Rolex Forums though).

[scurfa]

Originally Posted by ts3

Speaking about steel I wouldn't be all to surprised if the new WT with date is steel rather than WG (I can't tell from the rendering).

Another thought is that the green fad seems to be in the rear view mirror with all the grey blue dials this year.

Overall a pretty lazy release so far with some nice watches nonetheless.

I’ve been hoping for a steel world time for years, I mentioned it on the watch pro site and was cut dead by other members saying it would never happen! The fact we saw the 5935 that year never come into the equation, fingers crossed the new world time is steel.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Vasco

There is a last thought I had this week-end...

It could also be IA generated material.

I have friends who've been playing with those apps lately and made incredible rendering of pictures, themes, whether you make it a 100% generated one or you bring your own picture to play with.

Hence, it would be easy to through some pictures of the current line-up (screenshots from the Patek app) and ask "a 5980, blue dial, fabrics blue strap", etc...

This would explain the "HOME" misplaced on the Aquanaut, the "eaten" 12 on the 5520.

This vould also explain why Patek didn't already ask if those leaks could be removed (maybe it's not the policiy to remove them on the Rolex Forums though).

We will know in 2 days' time. Anyway Patek typically releases twice during W&W. The grand complications and new product are separated from the usual model refresh. We will see.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

Sorry, but there’s nothing to emulate from AP except all the collabs (which I find tacky and hope Patek doesn’t do).

AP has been a mono watch brand, the RO. Patek has a deep line of watches, and while there’s a lot of hype around the Nautilius, most Patek owners aren’t listing after that as their only piece. AP has been looking towards Patek to build out their line of watches beyond the RO, which the Code has started. Most still see AP as only the RO.

As has been mentioned Aquas and Nauts were not cool ten years ago and thus were selling at discounts, their prices were just too high for basic 3 hand SS watches compared to PM Rolexes etc. Now they are cool and everyone wants one, even the seasoned Euro aristocrat with a vast comps collection, whom PP always targeted in their ads then, not the film and pop and Insta stars whom were not interested back then but are now, and I am sure TS is loving all the attention.

So if he does make Aqua/Naut all or mostly gold he will still want a sports line to replace them and keep the overinterest/hype in the brand, esp with younger people in this Social Media age, no way is he wanting to go back to PPs being only for middle age aristos like before.

I doubt it will be anymore successful than the Code and will generally be disappointing so I don't think the Aq/Na will go all PM, there will still be a lot of SS pieces there to keep his hype train going.

[Crown & Shield]

Originally Posted by Yobrooks

Maybe to indicate that the gold hands are 'Home' time ? Not sure

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by pessoa00

It seems to lack the side pushers, so it could be adjusted by the crown like the 5326. The design might work if there is a day/night indicator bellow the HOME lettering (where the hour baton would be)

The hollow white hand is always for the home time.

The second explanation makes sense, although I do not see how placing a single day/night indicator at 6 o’clock would work (both aesthetically and practically)

In any case, if this is real, I would definitely go for the 5164G.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by Vasco

There is a last thought I had this week-end...

It could also be IA generated material.

I have friends who've been playing with those apps lately and made incredible rendering of pictures, themes, whether you make it a 100% generated one or you bring your own picture to play with.

Hence, it would be easy to through some pictures of the current line-up (screenshots from the Patek app) and ask "a 5980, blue dial, fabrics blue strap", etc...

This would explain the "HOME" misplaced on the Aquanaut, the "eaten" 12 on the 5520.

This vould also explain why Patek didn't already ask if those leaks could be removed (maybe it's not the policiy to remove them on the Rolex Forums though).

Would be quite surprised it is fake given the CEO of a multi brand AD has came out to publicly criticise the “leaks” and how it has destroyed the effort of a company leading up to W&W…..

[pam66]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Would be quite surprised it is fake given the CEO of a multi brand AD has came out to publicly criticise the “leaks” and how it has destroyed the effort of a company leading up to W&W…..

oh how pitiful for poor TS. my heart does go out to PP::::))))

[pessoa00]

Originally Posted by AK797

As has been mentioned Aquas and Nauts were not cool ten years ago and thus were selling at discounts, their prices were just too high for basic 3 hand SS watches compared to PM Rolexes etc. Now they are cool and everyone wants one, even the seasoned Euro aristocrat with a vast comps collection, whom PP always targeted in their ads then, not the film and pop and Insta stars whom were not interested back then but are now, and I am sure TS is loving all the attention.

So if he does make Aqua/Naut all or mostly gold he will still want a sports line to replace them and keep the overinterest/hype in the brand, esp with younger people in this Social Media age, no way is he wanting to go back to PPs being only for middle age aristos like before.

I doubt it will be anymore successful than the Code and will generally be disappointing so I don't think the Aq/Na will go all PM, there will still be a lot of SS pieces there to keep his hype train going.

Don’t remember the steel 5711 being ever readily available and sold at discount. At least not in my region. The Aqua is a different story though. It was always the ugly duck and only became hyped after the 5711 becoming impossible to get at the ad.

As I mentioned on my previous post I also think the move to PM of aqua and naut models is in preparation for the new line to be positioned bellow these.

Currently there are only 2 aqua models in stell (considering the 5167a and 1a basically the same model). And I wouldn’t be surprised if they hacked the 5968a next year as they already have 3 alternatives in PM.

Nautilus has a few more models in steel and I find it unlikely they’ll discontinue all at once, but I would see the 5726 and 5712 getting axed next year and their movements being transferred to the new collection.

All speculation of course, but I’m very curious to see how this will unfold.

[dchang81]

Yea 5167 and 5711 could be occasionally had at discount but werent "unpopular" by any stretch. Now the gold pieces and complications a different story. I mean why not move them upmarket, squeeze more margins, have people buy the cubitus or whatever. Then when things slow down reintroduce steel.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Would be quite surprised it is fake given the CEO of a multi brand AD has came out to publicly criticise the “leaks” and how it has destroyed the effort of a company leading up to W&W…..

Hard to tell indeed... In the end I hope these are fake because I also think that this kind of launching "ceremonials" support all the investments and efforts put into a new product. But as Ichiran said, we'll see the outcome very soon!

[scurfa]

Originally Posted by pessoa00

Don’t remember the steel 5711 being ever readily available and sold at discount. At least not in my region. The Aqua is a different story though. It was always the ugly duck and only became hyped after the 5711 becoming impossible to get at the ad.

As I mentioned on my previous post I also think the move to PM of aqua and naut models is in preparation for the new line to be positioned bellow these.

Currently there are only 2 aqua models in stell (considering the 5167a and 1a basically the same model). And I wouldn’t be surprised if they hacked the 5968a next year as they already have 3 alternatives in PM.

Nautilus has a few more models in steel and I find it unlikely they’ll discontinue all at once, but I would see the 5726 and 5712 getting axed next year and their movements being transferred to the new collection.

All speculation of course, but I’m very curious to see how this will unfold.

2013 I got a 5711 in 4 weeks so not instantly available but I did get a 20% discount.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PT_91]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Would be quite surprised it is fake given the CEO of a multi brand AD has came out to publicly criticise the “leaks” and how it has destroyed the effort of a company leading up to W&W…..

Can you please share this?

[imran16520]

Originally Posted by scurfa

2013 I got a 5711 in 4 weeks so not instantly available but I did get a 20% discount.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by PT_91

Can you please share this?

IMG_8159.jpeg

Personally I think he is full of BS, especially when in previous years another very prominent Patek influencer had shared leaks about the brand but it was complete silence. This year it was somebody else not in their circle and all of a sudden it’s an outrage and a travesty to the brand bla bla bla.

Indeed, some are more equal than others….