Does this Rolex GMT Root Beer exist?

[VFA]

I am looking for a:

Full gold case and bracelet
Nipple dial
Applied rolex crown on the dial
Sunburst brown dial

Which GMT references would tick all the boxes above? What reference numbers should I be looking at?

Does this watch exist in two one or monotone bezels? Or both?

I found this watch:

https://archive.is/zLhzF



It ticks all the boxes but it seems to be a rare oddity. What do you think?

[TimeLord2]

There are a few problems with this one to my poorly trained eye. It should not have the applied crown if it is an original 16758, this is probably a service replacement or an outright replacement using the wrong era dial from a 1675. Not to say it doesn't look very nice, very nice patina. The 1675 has the applied crown on the dial. You are looking for the 1675/8, which is all gold and produced until 1980 or so with production starting in the 1960s the 8 indicated solid gold. The bezel is also not correct as it should be all brown but it too is quite nice from a purely aesthetics point of view but again it might be a service insert not sure if the 8s on that should be oval. The half and half here should be on the 1675/3, which is also the 1675 model but gold and stainless that woud be the 3 at the end for Rolesor. It does look polished, but not surprising given the age but just from this one picture the lugs look ok. The date magnifier looks like it is delaminating or something… The hands look horrible and I would worry about tritium falling into the movement unless stabilized. Overall, you would need more and better pics to provide the real experts on the forum, including the serial number (partial first 3 digits) between lugs at 6:00, model number between lugs at 12:00, pictures of the sides, back of watch, bracelet end links, clasp, a picture of the movement. The hand stack order is different on the 1675, should be 24-hour hand, hour hand, minutes, then seconds on top. I would guess this is not a full set given the price? The movement also changed with the introduction of teh 16750 to include a data hacking feature, which the 1675 does not have. You literally have to rotate the winder on the 1675 watch through complete day cycles to get the correct date, which is a pain. That said I have only heard good things about Jacek now at Tropical Watch. Experts should be along shortly. Good luck in your search!

[springer]

This is an interesting watch. It has the correct hand stack for the quick-set model, but as mentioned in the previous post, the dial appears to be from a GMT 1675 and not the later 16758 from the 1980s. I've never seen the applied marker dial on the GMT 16753 or 16758.

And, for those wondering, the bezel insert is about 20 years later than the watch - late 1990s to 2000 era.

[drockadam]

This one is stunning, regardless of incorrect things.

[VFA]

Originally Posted by springer

This is an interesting watch. It has the correct hand stack for the quick-set model, but as mentioned in the previous post, the dial appears to be from a GMT 1675 and not the later 16758 from the 1980s. I've never seen the applied marker dial on the GMT 16753 or 16758.

And, for those wondering, the bezel insert is about 20 years later than the watch - late 1990s to 2000 era.

So for the applied marker I need to only look for 1675/8.

I have also seen the 1675/8 both with the matte dial and the shiny sunburst dial.

Why are some matte and some are sunburst? Which model year should I look for for sunburst?

What makes you say that about the bezel?

[VFA]

I also understand that the applied gold crown on the dial was available for some 5-digit submariner references but never for 5 digit GMTs.

[faimag]

A few early 16758s came with sunburst dials with applied crown. Most have sunburst dials with painted crown.

The 1675/8 only came with matte dials as far as I know. I have never seen a 1675 with sunburst, unless it's a later service replacement.

The one in the pic looks like a sunburst to me, not matte. Matte has a brown color with a purple hue that overall looks very uniform and flat.

In addition, look at the "SWISS" at 6 o'clock. Most 4-digits did not have the middle "I" but instead had the "SW" and "SS" on either end of the 30-min mark, which took the place of "I", i.e. "SW|SS". In my experience, only a few late 1675s and a few early 16758s look like the one in the pic, i.e. "SW|ISS" or had a "SWISS" with an interrupted 30-min mark on top and below the "I".

One oddity with the watch in the pic is that the 1675/8 or 16758 came with full brown bezel inserts (as full gold models); the rootbeer bezel insert was unique to the 1675/3 or 16753 (as steel/gold models).

If I had to bet, I would say it's an early 16758.

Then again, it is Rolex, so no-one knows for sure!

[rootbeer7]

I thought the applied crown was on earlier matte dials.

[faimag]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

I thought the applied crown was on earlier matte dials.

Yes indeed. All of the matte 1675/3 and 1675/8 to my knowledge have applied crowns. But I have seen some very early 16753s and 16758s with the sunburst dial and applied crown as well. These quickly changed to painted crowns in the later models, and eventually even lost their nipples

[JustinK]

I have never seen an applied crown on a 16758 so my guess is the dial was altered to fit a 16758. I believe the feet are in different positions so will not fit unless altered.

[springer]

Originally Posted by JustinK

I have never seen an applied crown on a 16758 so my guess is the dial was altered to fit a 16758. I believe the feet are in different positions so will not fit unless altered.

The dial feet are in different positions for the 1675 and 16758, so unless someone breaks the feet off a 1675 dial, the 1675 dial will not fit a 16753/8.

[JustinK]

Originally Posted by springer

The dial feet are in different positions for the 1675 and 16758, so unless someone breaks the feet off a 1675 dial, the 1675 dial will not fit a 16753/8.

Thats exactly the point I was trying to make.

[VFA]

Originally Posted by faimag

A few early 16758s came with sunburst dials with applied crown. Most have sunburst dials with painted crown.

The 1675/8 only came with matte dials as far as I know. I have never seen a 1675 with sunburst, unless it's a later service replacement.

The one in the pic looks like a sunburst to me, not matte. Matte has a brown color with a purple hue that overall looks very uniform and flat.

In addition, look at the "SWISS" at 6 o'clock. Most 4-digits did not have the middle "I" but instead had the "SW" and "SS" on either end of the 30-min mark, which took the place of "I", i.e. "SW|SS". In my experience, only a few late 1675s and a few early 16758s look like the one in the pic, i.e. "SW|ISS" or had a "SWISS" with an interrupted 30-min mark on top and below the "I".

One oddity with the watch in the pic is that the 1675/8 or 16758 came with full brown bezel inserts (as full gold models); the rootbeer bezel insert was unique to the 1675/3 or 16753 (as steel/gold models).

If I had to bet, I would say it's an early 16758.

Then again, it is Rolex, so no-one knows for sure!

Excellent information. Thank you very much.

So basically I will need to look for a very early 16758 as this is the only reference with an applied rolex crown on a sunburst brown nipple dial.

I understand that this is an extremely rare piece and will be almost impossible to find. How should I start looking for the piece?

[waspy1]

Originally Posted by VFA

Excellent information. Thank you very much.

So basically I will need to look for a very early 16758 as this is the only reference with an applied rolex crown on a sunburst brown nipple dial.

I understand that this is an extremely rare piece and will be almost impossible to find. How should I start looking for the piece?

There’s some misinformation on this thread imo. There are no 16758 with applied crowns. Only 1675/8.

Late 1675/8 (around 77-79)can have what is being referred to as sunburst dial. Most of these dials are deteriorating by now. Only the matte dials seem to consistently last without deteriorating.


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[VFA]

What is the consensus here? Does this watch exist?

Even if the dial is taken from 1675 it appears to be sunburst like the 16758 dials.

Has 1675 ever had a sunburst dial? I never seen one with one.

This is the only sunburst dial I have seen with an applied crown which I am looking for.

[waspy1]

It’s a correct, period correct dial for late 70’s. The 1675/8 came with matte dial in the early days, followed by this dial in the last couple of years prior to being replaced by the 16758 around 1980.

These dials often suffer from lacquer degradation which reveals the base cost underneath as seen in this pic:



It’s not actually a sunburst dial, it’s more of a satin finish. It is distinct from the matte dial, however.


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[VFA]

Originally Posted by waspy1

It’s a correct, period correct dial for late 70’s. The 1675/8 came with matte dial in the early days, followed by this dial in the last couple of years prior to being replaced by the 16758 around 1980.

It’s not actually a sunburst dial, it’s more of a satin finish. It is distinct from the matte dial, however.


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I see so the watch in the picture I posted is an 16758 with a late 1675/8 dial since 16758 never came with an applied crown.

The watch in the picture is not fully original then. The dial is from another watch.

I guess the watch I am looking for is a 1675/8 from 78 and 79.

The dial I posted above is just so beautiful.

[waspy1]

Re-reading the text on the original pic, I see that it was originally from Jacek at TropicalWatch. I would generally trust that he has done his due diligence on this piece.

By this, I would expect that he has checked that the dial is correctly fitted to the dial with the original feet. The later movements and dials for the 16758 models had feet at different locations than the 1675/8 models. Therefore not interchangeable without modifications.

It’s a brave person who would ever say that ‘Rolex never did x’ or ‘Rolex always did y’. However, the pic you post notes on it that the applied crown is ‘odd/rare’.

If you are after this look then I suggest looking for a late 1675/8 rather than a unicorn 16758 which may be incorrect. I also much prefer the acrylic crystal over the sapphire. I had a 16808 for a while and couldn’t bond with it. I love my 1675/8 and 1675/3 though.


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[motoikkyu]

I can personally attest that the dial from the 1675 will ONLY fit the 16758 if the feet are cut off. I bought a 1675 dial on eBay that was going cheap because it was a double amputation (had no feet) and put it on my 16753, where it resides to this day. The matte/nipple 1675 dials are beautiful, I couldn't resist, and I won't be selling the piece without including the original dial and bezel insert (it was an all-black 16753 and I had my heart set on a root-beer, but they were $3K more at the time, dial, bezel insert and swap were under $500).

[VFA]

Originally Posted by waspy1

Re-reading the text on the original pic, I see that it was originally from Jacek at TropicalWatch. I would generally trust that he has done his due diligence on this piece.

By this, I would expect that he has checked that the dial is correctly fitted to the dial with the original feet. The later movements and dials for the 16758 models had feet at different locations than the 1675/8 models. Therefore not interchangeable without modifications.

It’s a brave person who would ever say that ‘Rolex never did x’ or ‘Rolex always did y’. However, the pic you post notes on it that the applied crown is ‘odd/rare’.

If you are after this look then I suggest looking for a late 1675/8 rather than a unicorn 16758 which may be incorrect. I also much prefer the acrylic crystal over the sapphire. I had a 16808 for a while and couldn’t bond with it. I love my 1675/8 and 1675/3 though.


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What about the bezel? The two-tone bezel on a full gold watch is also incorrect no?

Full gold pieces only came with one color (brown) bezel as I understand.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by VFA

What about the bezel? The two-tone bezel on a full gold watch is also incorrect no?

Full gold pieces only came with one color (brown) bezel as I understand.

That is my understanding as well.
Pepsi = All steel
Half and half = Root beer
All Brown = PM
All Black = black dial all stainless or two tone

That said, I'm probably wrong…

[waspy1]

Originally Posted by VFA

What about the bezel? The two-tone bezel on a full gold watch is also incorrect no?

Full gold pieces only came with one color (brown) bezel as I understand.

I’d agree. This is no big deal as easily changed out for a new look.


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