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Old 19 June 2021, 11:45 PM   #1
charwonj
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Curvature of hour hand on this Explorer II ref. 16570

Hi Guys,

Here’s my first post on this forum. Long story short, I just purchased ref. 16570 from 1995. The case condition is reasonable given the price I’m paying. The hands match the dial. But I’m having trouble wrapping my head around the curved hour hand.

The hour hand is curved as I was told it should be, but the curvature is tilted to one side making the hour hand look like it isn’t parallel to the dial from most angles. The minute hand also tilts upward from the dial.

The seller is also a local watch maker. But he advises not correcting the hour hand due to the fragility of the tritium.

I’m trying not to get too hung up on this. Maybe the hands on my other vintage watches are also a little wonky but I don’t notice because of the domed crystal.

Do your hour hands also look like mine? Here a couple of photos.
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Old 20 June 2021, 04:20 AM   #2
Sherbie
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Hard to see, tbh. Is it bent ( ie twisted?


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Old 20 June 2021, 04:43 AM   #3
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Once seen never unseen.....hand it back or source a replacement handset.
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Old 20 June 2021, 05:00 AM   #4
SS Oyster
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You didn’t notice when purchasing?


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Old 20 June 2021, 05:20 AM   #5
charwonj
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Hard to see, tbh. Is it bent ( ie twisted?


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That’s what it looks like. When looking at the dial, the shadow makes it clear that one side is lifted off the dial more than the other.
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Old 20 June 2021, 05:24 AM   #6
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You didn’t notice when purchasing?


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I have 5 days to decide whether I want to keep it. I’m using this time check for flaws!
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Old 20 June 2021, 05:56 AM   #7
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You're overthinking it IMO.
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Old 20 June 2021, 07:56 AM   #8
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I have 5 days to decide whether I want to keep it. I’m using this time check for flaws!
It would bug me forever once I spotted it. It ain't right.

I'd either ask the guy to fix it, with the possible tritium damage on him, or return it within the five-day period. Some of the issue might be fixed by just re-mounting the hand stack properly.
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Old 20 June 2021, 08:05 AM   #9
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It would bug me forever once I spotted it. It ain't right.

I'd either ask the guy to fix it, with the possible tritium damage on him, or return it within the five-day period. Some of the issue might be fixed by just re-mounting the hand stack properly.
Agree. Once you’ve seen it and it bugs you, you will forever notice it. And it will nag and nag and nag at you
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Old 20 June 2021, 08:53 AM   #10
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Thanks for your input guys. It’s clear that this isn’t a common thing.
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Old 20 June 2021, 11:40 AM   #11
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After closer inspection, I believe now that the hand itself isn’t bent. It seems like the hour hand is stacked slightly tilted. And taking a close up photo reveals a hairline in the hour hand tritium… I’ve read about how this can be stabilized at the back of the hand, but I think it may be best to just return the watch.
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Old 20 June 2021, 06:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody View Post
Once seen never unseen.....hand it back or source a replacement handset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapokee View Post
It would bug me forever once I spotted it. It ain't right.

I'd either ask the guy to fix it, with the possible tritium damage on him, or return it within the five-day period. Some of the issue might be fixed by just re-mounting the hand stack properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingface66 View Post
Agree. Once you’ve seen it and it bugs you, you will forever notice it. And it will nag and nag and nag at you
This ^

Good luck, whatever you decide.
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Old 20 June 2021, 07:24 PM   #13
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Looks warped. I would return it.
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Old 20 June 2021, 10:01 PM   #14
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Point out the faults and haggle??
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Old 20 June 2021, 10:05 PM   #15
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I'd take it back. Also, call me paranoid, but I wouldn't buy a preowned watch from a watchmaker.
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Old 21 June 2021, 01:05 AM   #16
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I'd take it back. Also, call me paranoid, but I wouldn't buy a preowned watch from a watchmaker.
Oh interesting, why not?
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Old 21 June 2021, 01:18 AM   #17
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Oh interesting, why not?

As an example, the comment about tritium hands makes me think he knows it's fragile because he's the one that took out the damaged original and put the period correct albeit bent one he sourced into that watch.

I'm not saying it happened but it would weigh on my mind.
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Old 21 June 2021, 09:11 AM   #18
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I'd take it back. Also, call me paranoid, but I wouldn't buy a preowned watch from a watchmaker.
I'd be more inclined to buy from a watchmaker than from a random seller or Fleabay.

The watch is likely to have been serviced properly and unlikely to be fake. He has a reputation to protect. He'll also be able to tell you everything about the watch's condition and originality.

Trusted sellers are the best route, though.
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Old 21 June 2021, 10:56 AM   #19
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I have read your "objections", studied your comments, and am really perplexed as to what expectations are realistic when buying a vintage watch. In short, your diatribe would disqualify you from ever being a valued customer for any trusted seller that I know. A watch that is 26 years old, looks as good, and runs as well as the example you show would seem to be highly desirable in today's market. If you are buying this as a watch to wear and enjoy for many years, you have a winner in my opinion. However, if you are trying to buy this as an investment, and looking for brand new perfection, you may want to consider another asset class. I have purchased any number of watches from trusted sellers on TRF which were described in highly complementary terms, and they were not as nice as this one. They did, however, more than meet my expectations. You many want to look up the definition of perfectionism and see if it resonates with you. If so, good luck in your search for the perfect pre-owned watch.,
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Old 22 June 2021, 01:28 AM   #20
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Watch hands are extremely delicate and easily tweaked when installing.

The hands are not really curved. The top is chamfered on each side to better reflect light.

CurvedHand3.jpg
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Old 22 June 2021, 07:19 AM   #21
charwonj
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Watch hands are extremely delicate and easily tweaked when installing.

The hands are not really curved. The top is chamfered on each side to better reflect light.

Attachment 1228420
Thanks for pointing that out. I now see that in the link that explained the curvature on vintage hour hands (I can't post the link here because I have less than 10 authored posts, but the article was one on rolexhaven dot com), the bottom of the hands are actually flat.

Thanks again.
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Old 22 June 2021, 07:59 AM   #22
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I have read your "objections", studied your comments, and am really perplexed as to what expectations are realistic when buying a vintage watch. In short, your diatribe would disqualify you from ever being a valued customer for any trusted seller that I know. A watch that is 26 years old, looks as good, and runs as well as the example you show would seem to be highly desirable in today's market. If you are buying this as a watch to wear and enjoy for many years, you have a winner in my opinion. However, if you are trying to buy this as an investment, and looking for brand new perfection, you may want to consider another asset class. I have purchased any number of watches from trusted sellers on TRF which were described in highly complementary terms, and they were not as nice as this one. They did, however, more than meet my expectations. You many want to look up the definition of perfectionism and see if it resonates with you. If so, good luck in your search for the perfect pre-owned watch.,
I appreciate your input on this. You may be right that I am imposing unrealistic expectations on this 26 year old watch. But this being my first Rolex (and also being the most expensive piece I've purchased - $8995 + shipping), I am merely trying to do my homework on what I need to watch out for in the minefield of vintage watches.

But given limited available information regarding how hands should look, I thought I would ask the forum directly to see whether what I'm experiencing is common for Rolex watches this age and model. I thought this would be the best way to calibrate my expectations. The majority of members have advised returning the watch. Also some forum posts outlining the potential problems from cracked tritium (and how to remedy it) made it seem like this watch wasn't the best one to wear daily. I did read about how the tritium could be stabilized by sending it to a Mr. Bob Ridley but I didn't feel like buying a watch that needed to be sent in for a service in the immediate-term.

You seem to suggest that the couple of hairlines on the tritium is actually not a big deal. Maybe hairlines aren't necessarily a sign of the tritium cracking? Or have I just blown the whole cracked tritium problem out of proportion?

Teach me!
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Old 22 June 2021, 08:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantab View Post
I have read your "objections", studied your comments, and am really perplexed as to what expectations are realistic when buying a vintage watch. In short, your diatribe would disqualify you from ever being a valued customer for any trusted seller that I know. A watch that is 26 years old, looks as good, and runs as well as the example you show would seem to be highly desirable in today's market. If you are buying this as a watch to wear and enjoy for many years, you have a winner in my opinion. However, if you are trying to buy this as an investment, and looking for brand new perfection, you may want to consider another asset class. I have purchased any number of watches from trusted sellers on TRF which were described in highly complementary terms, and they were not as nice as this one. They did, however, more than meet my expectations. You many want to look up the definition of perfectionism and see if it resonates with you. If so, good luck in your search for the perfect pre-owned watch.,

That’s a bit harsh. The OP confesses he’s knew to this and has only committed the crime of finding something, albeit small, that is wrong with his purchase that concerns him. I was there, myself, once upon a time when I bought my first vintage Sub and noticed that the hands were a slightly different shade of patina from the markers. I didn’t know if it was normal, an anomaly, suggestive of aftermarket hands, or something else. It was especially hard as I was beyond thrilled to finally own a Sub and this little detail nagged at me and o wasn’t sure if I’d made a mistake with its purchase. But after reading as much as I could on the topic, I came out of it with a greater knowledge of the nuances of these vintage pieces. So, let’s give this guy a break and give him the chance to become a vintage enthusiast like the rest of it.
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Old 22 June 2021, 08:37 AM   #24
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OP,
It does seem a lil bent but it could be the pic. As others mentioned, these hands should be curved/chamfered but evenly on both sides. If someone tries to adjust or repair it, the tritium might break off.
my 2 cents
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Old 22 June 2021, 08:56 AM   #25
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So, let’s give this guy a break and give him the chance to become a vintage enthusiast like the rest of it.
This. We've all been there along this crazy road.
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Old 22 June 2021, 09:11 AM   #26
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They look ok to me, probably curvature of the crystal. I am looking at a perfect 16570 right now and it almost looks like the tips curve up if I angle it right. Every great watch I've had made me a little suspicious at some point. I almost returned a 1970 red sub once because of some freakout.
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Old 23 June 2021, 02:43 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantab View Post
I have read your "objections", studied your comments, and am really perplexed as to what expectations are realistic when buying a vintage watch. In short, your diatribe would disqualify you from ever being a valued customer for any trusted seller that I know. A watch that is 26 years old, looks as good, and runs as well as the example you show would seem to be highly desirable in today's market. If you are buying this as a watch to wear and enjoy for many years, you have a winner in my opinion. However, if you are trying to buy this as an investment, and looking for brand new perfection, you may want to consider another asset class. I have purchased any number of watches from trusted sellers on TRF which were described in highly complementary terms, and they were not as nice as this one. They did, however, more than meet my expectations. You many want to look up the definition of perfectionism and see if it resonates with you. If so, good luck in your search for the perfect pre-owned watch.,
I don't agree with this assessment at all. We all have the right to be as picky as we want in the world of vintage watches, and shouldn't be criticized for it.

This hobby attracts guys with different degrees of OCD (myself included), and that's OK.
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