233 vs 372

[Watchcraze007]

Happydayjames (post your real names fokes.. what r u hiding? ;)).. I think u should stop and count.. 372 already a winner. But bottom line, 372 a classic, 233 80% sporty, 20% classic (domed crystal). Depends what YOU like. If u're buying for looks, buy what sings to u. If for investment, go SE. 372 will sell well, but a little further down the line (6000 pieces!).

[Psmith]

Between these two, the 233

Far more practical as a daily wearer and looks great

Also has the quick-change strap system, so no messing about with a screwdriver (not that difficult though)

Plexiglass on the 372 too scratch-prone for my liking. Sure, you can polish some of them out with Polywatch, but really... an $11k watch?

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by Watchcraze007

Happydayjames (post your real names fokes.. what r u hiding? ;)).. I think u should stop and count.. 372 already a winner. But bottom line, 372 a classic, 233 80% sporty, 20% classic (domed crystal). Depends what YOU like. If u're buying for looks, buy what sings to u. If for investment, go SE. 372 will sell well, but a little further down the line (6000 pieces!).

This is factually incorrect. The 372 is a regular production model and not a SE/LE. I would not use the word 'investment' with any of the current production models, and probably not many of the LE/SEs either (which Panerai are rather over-doing imho)

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by Psmith

Between these two, the 233

Far more practical as a daily wearer and looks great

Also has the quick-change strap system, so no messing about with a screwdriver

Plexiglass on the 372 too scratch-prone for my liking. Sure, you can polish some of them out with Polywatch, but really............ an $11k watch?

Clive, doesn't history has any value in your book, mate?
But agree (somehow) on quick-change strap system... But... IMHO Panerai history is not about practicality, but more about, we'll, again, history (no quick-strap-strange in 1950 or in WWI). 372 any day for me.

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by Psmith

This is factually incorrect. The 372 is a regular production model and not a SE/LE. I would not use the word 'investment' with any of the current production models, and probably not many of the LE/SEs either (which Panerai are rather over-doing imho)

Ofcourse it isn't an SE! I meant "BUT the 372 will sell well".. That sounds better.
And certainly agree with the "overdoing" part!

[travisb]

372!

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by Watchcraze007

Clive, doesn't history has any value in your book, mate?
But agree (somehow) on quick-change strap system... But... IMHO Panerai history is not about practicality, but more about, we'll, again, history (no quick-strap-strange in 1950 or in WWI). 372 any day for me.

Not when we're talking about modern designs of Panerai watches

If I wanted something historic, I would look for the real thing i.e. vintage. But I have no personal connection with WWII Italian military, nor am I particularly interested in that period, so purchasing a modern watch which uses deliberate design cues from this period (different company then, of course) does not especially excite me. I much prefer the more progressive designs, such as the 233 and the 32x models. Simply creating facsimiles of vintage models seems a little cynical to me, as well as being rather lazy design. But to look at this another way, vintage models are rare and expensive, so not every enthusiast will be able to find one or afford it. For this type of customer, models like the 372 are very welcome. Of course, these are my own humble opinions and others are welcome to differ

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by Watchcraze007

Ofcourse it isn't an SE! I meant "BUT the 372 will sell well".. That sounds better.
And certainly agree with the "overdoing" part!

Apologies Ahmed, I must have misunderstood your post

There was some speculation when the 372 was first released that it would be a LE, although I never saw anything to back this up. I think it did result in several being purchased in the hope of making a quick buck!

Please don't get me wrong... I think the 372 is a very attractive and well-executed model. The plexi gives it a nice 'warmth'. I am just a little wary of vintage re-creations, and imho it's overpriced for a Base model (in-house movement or not). I can fully understand why it is a hit with enthusiasts

On the subject of LE/SEs, I really think Panerai need to slow down with these before we all suffer from 'Edition Fatigue'. I think one needs to approach them carefully in the secondary market, as the relatively high numbers that are produced tends to quickly depress values. Of course, Panerai are far from being the only brand who rather over-does the LE/SEs!

[Watchcraze007]

Agree on most counts Clive ;) but when it comes to the facsimile notion, why do some pay $$ for a Le Corbusier designed chair produced yesterday, or a Morgan car? It's about the lessons of history placed into what seems to be a simple (base, in Pam language) design. In design, "less is more".. "Form follows function " and that usually means simplicity.
Also IMHO. Cheers

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by Watchcraze007

Agree on most counts Clive ;) but when it comes to the facsimile notion, why do some pay $$ for a Le Corbusier designed chair produced yesterday, or a Morgan car? It's about the lessons of history placed into what seems to be a simple (base, in Pam language) design. In design, "less is more".. "Form follows function " and that usually means simplicity.
Also IMHO. Cheers

Thanks my friend

Actually, along with the contempories the PAMs I like most of all are the Historic Luminor Marinas, especially the 111. I think there is an honesty in their design, in that the essence of historic/vintage pieces is present, but without trying to pretend they are something they're not. The pricing is also a bit more realistic!

I like what Panerai are doing with in-house movements, especially as I am a fan of long power reserves. I think it will be interesting to see where they go with current ETA-powered models. Perhaps they will use the cal. P.999, or something newer? I would love to see a '111' (or whatever they might call it) with a 3-days in-house movement and quick-change strap system (although this would not be a deal-breaker ...I'm just a bit lazy!)

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by Psmith

Thanks my friend

Actually, along with the contempories the PAMs I like most of all are the Historic Luminor Marinas, especially the 111. I think there is an honesty in their design, in that the essence of historic/vintage pieces is present, but without trying to pretend they are something they're not. The pricing is also a bit more realistic!

I like what Panerai are doing with in-house movements, especially as I am a fan of long power reserves. I think it will be interesting to see where they go with current ETA-powered models. Perhaps they will use the cal. P.999, or something newer? I would love to see a '111' (or whatever they might call it) with a 3-days in-house movement and quick-change strap system (although this would not be a deal-breaker ...I'm just a bit lazy!)

[Watchcraze007]

Beautiful shot.

[Travelller]

... but I'd like to point out that upon his last update, it was the 311 now...

---------

Some vintage Plexi...
...with a lot of character

copyright M. Weber

Modern retro - the 233 has a lot of history too...
...just look at that domed crystal




OT

Originally Posted by DiverAsia

my answer...

OMG Rich, that Swiss ammo looks stunning on your 372... ! When did you get it? Did you post it elsewhere? Love it

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by Travelller

... but I'd like to point out that upon his last update, it was the 311 now...

---------

Some vintage Plexi...
...with a lot of character

copyright M. Weber

Modern retro - the 233 has a lot of history too...
...just look at that domed crystal




OT
OMG Rich, that Swiss ammo looks stunning on your 372... ! When did you get it? Did you post it elsewhere? Love it

Love to see men with taste... Doesn't hurt, does it?! Nice watch, good-leather shoes, matching socks & jeans.. And the STRAP! Sport-chic at its best, mate! ;)
Of the very few shots that made me like the 233, actually!

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by Travelller

... but I'd like to point out that upon his last update, it was the 311 now...

---------

Some vintage Plexi...
...with a lot of character

copyright M. Weber

Modern retro - the 233 has a lot of history too...
...just look at that domed crystal




OT
OMG Rich, that Swiss ammo looks stunning on your 372... ! When did you get it? Did you post it elsewhere? Love it

Yes, the 311 is quite a different watch from the other two (Mono-chrono)

That vintage 3646 is lovely, with the welded lugs and Rolex movement

Is that your 233? The strap looks great - a sort of 'storm grey'?

[DiverAsia]

Originally Posted by Travelller

.OMG Rich, that Swiss ammo looks stunning on your 372... ! When did you get it? Did you post it elsewhere? Love it

Oh, you saw that?
I have been trying on a few new straps and am deciding on which Swiss Ammo I want as well as a Cordovan and a Croc.
I want to see how the 372 looks with these 3 different kinds of straps.
I have yet to chose which one I get first though.

[Travelller]

Thx guys. Yes, it's my 233 on Storm Grey...

That 3646 is a beauty - I posted it because of the whole plexi vs. crystal topic. Personally, my grail is a 6152/1 with the 618 as well as one with the 240 SF...

Rich, were you at Ted's or is there a third party also stocking Swiss ammo straps?

[Watchcraze007]

Rich, I'm personally not convinced of the quality or finish of that "Swiss Ammo" u have layed down on the 372 in that pic! Like HDHUNTER's better. The weathering is not the best u coud find, man, on that Swiss! Is it a Ted Su?! The ones on their website are much better! If they are that dull in reality, then I'm not going Ted Su ;)

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by Travelller

Thx guys. Yes, it's my 233 on Storm Grey...

That 3646 is a beauty - I posted it because of the whole plexi vs. crystal topic. Personally, my grail is a 6152/1 with the 618 as well as one with the 240 SF...

Rich, were you at Ted's or is there a third party also stocking Swiss ammo straps?

Grail 6512/1 here, too! Hence the 372 purchase

[DiverAsia]

Originally Posted by Watchcraze007

Rich, I'm personally not convinced of the quality or finish of that "Swiss Ammo" u have layed down on the 372 in that pic! Like HDHUNTER's better. The weathering is not the best u coud find, man, on that Swiss! Is it a Ted Su?! The ones on their website are much better! If they are that dull in reality, then I'm not going Ted Su ;)

Actually it was a Ted Su, but since my photo was so bad I had to brighten it which took the natural color out of the strap. It is actually quite nice and feels great.

Originally Posted by Travelller

Rich, were you at Ted's or is there a third party also stocking Swiss ammo straps?

I was at my local dealer, he had some Ted Su and Wotencraft as well as a few other brands for me to try out before I put in an order to Ted.
I wanted to see how the French Ammo and Swiss ammo compared as well as try the Cordovan leather and see if if would look OK with my 372. I thought it looked great. I'll post some undoctored photos for you to check out.
Cheers!

[DiverAsia]

Here are a few I tried from left to right: the yellow Croc, old French Ammo, and the New Frech Ammo as well as the Cordovan.


Here is the Cordovan, which is quite lovely and the leather feels great.


And here is the Swiss Ammo. It is a terrible photo, but the strap is great.


Cheers!
and I am afraid we've hijacked this thread, My apologies.

[DiverAsia]

One more shot with the Swiss ammo with the croc and 2 French Ammos

[Watchcraze007]

With, alas, the Swiss still not showing its best ;)

[Travelller]

OT

Originally Posted by DiverAsia

One more shot with the Swiss ammo with the croc and 2 French Ammos...

I'd go Swiss then the darker French. I don't "see" Croc on a 372 but you just might be the one to prove me wrong

p.s. Time to move this to a new thread - we're really going off-topic now ;)

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by Travelller

OT
I'd go Swiss then the darker French. I don't "see" Croc on a 372 but you just might be the one to prove me wrong

p.s. Time to move this to a new thread - we're really going off-topic now ;)

but isn't the dark French not very different from the reddish 372 OEM?
See.. that's my problem with the strap thing.. I just can't find something that makes me get the plastic and punch "Buy"! The feeling I get is of throwing cash away!

[TSW]

That's a though one.

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by TSW

That's a though one.

That's coz apparently Rich has good taste All straps have a nice feel! But again, close to what the OEMs give you!

[Psmith]

Originally Posted by DiverAsia

One more shot with the Swiss ammo with the croc and 2 French Ammos

Love those ammo straps Rich - especially the Swiss

[DiverAsia]

Originally Posted by Watchcraze007

With, alas, the Swiss still not showing its best ;)

I think what you said about the strap on the site was correct, they look great on the site. And in person, they feel and look great. They really are not at all like the leather OEM that came with the 372. A complete different feel as well as a dark rich color to the Swiss ammo strap

Originally Posted by Psmith

Love those ammo straps Rich - especially the Swiss

The New French Ammo is nice, and the leather is very smooth. The leather is not dark leather like the Swiss.
The Swiss ammo is a great strap. I'll be getting one soon.

Originally Posted by Travelller

OT
I'd go Swiss then the darker French. I don't "see" Croc on a 372 but you just might be the one to prove me wrong

p.s. Time to move this to a new thread - we're really going off-topic now ;)

Yes, that croc was not an option, but they only had the yellow croc, but the honey brown croc from Ted is delicious and I think I can make it work with my Pam. I will try to go check one out next week.

[Watchcraze007]

Originally Posted by DiverAsia

I think what you said about the strap on the site was correct, they look great on the site. And in person, they feel and look great. They really are not at all like the leather OEM that came with the 372. A complete different feel as well as a dark rich color to the Swiss ammo strap



The New French Ammo is nice, and the leather is very smooth. The leather is not dark leather like the Swiss.
The Swiss ammo is a great strap. I'll be getting one soon.




Yes, that croc was not an option, but they only had the yellow croc, but the honey brown croc from Ted is delicious and I think I can make it work with my Pam. I will try to go check one out next week.

Is the stitching on the Swiss intentionally rugged? Ok, it's old, which IS how I want my straps, but there is a fine line between old, real vintage and "intentionally vintaged"... Am I being silly here :)
And Rich, u were right about us hijacking this thread! Guys, Let's exercise our strap addiction somewhere else.