Vacheron's new challenger to the 5711 / Nautilus..?

[willski]

World time would be my choice if pricing wasn't so high...

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Credit: Foversta @ watchprosite


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[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Dewitte

lIV) the case didn't feel ultra thin; about as wide as the 5711 I was wearing today.

It's labelled as ultra-thin as a result of the movement's lack of thickness — it has nothing to do with the case's width.

Originally Posted by Dewitte

Only issue.. It's 2x the price of the 5711.

Of course it's more expensive, you're compare gold with industry standard stainless steel!

[soundserious]

Originally Posted by Dewitte

and one final one

It's too big for your wrist. 5711 it is.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by mps354

I'm not a huge fan of that vacheron. But, I would love it if my 5711 could go from bracelet to rubber to leather with that quick change system it has

Agree, and I must say the bracelet looks very nice, need to see in real but seems AP, PP level when you see the pics, but that's the only thing I like about it

Originally Posted by GB-man

I just don't love the VC aesthetic. Never will.

Don't hate em but don't love em, would be many others before them at those prices

[One Ping Only]

I'm a Vacheron fan but not feeling it here, especially at the price point.

[Plastique999]

I'm a huge Vacheron fan, and will always hold on to my VC Overseas. But the price point for this ultra slim VC is way too high IMO.
I would take a Nautilus over this model.







Sent from my 16M

[willski]

The Overseas Ultra Thin is priced at $55,700.

The 5711-1R is $51,000 and the 15202OR is $50,800.

I agree that the Ultra Thin is over-priced, but in fairness it's in the same ballpark as its main rivals.

What do you think would be 'fair pricing' to take into account the lack of prestige, history etc.?


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[cinch]

Originally Posted by willski

The Overseas Ultra Thin is priced at $55,700.

The 5711-1R is $51,000 and the 15202OR is $50,800.

I agree that the Ultra Thin is over-priced, but in fairness it's in the same ballpark as its main rivals.

What do you think would be 'fair pricing' to take into account the lack of prestige, history etc.?


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I think the 5711- 1R is a much better comparison and despite the fact I'm not a rose gold fan that watch is beautiful, the VC wouldn't get a look in from me.

[cervantes]

Originally Posted by cinch

I think the 5711- 1R is a much better comparison and despite the fact I'm not a rose gold fan that watch is beautiful, the VC wouldn't get a look in from me.

With you. And when the watch is inevitably released in steel for 25K or so, it'll be a viable alternative to the Jumbo and 5711. Though I don't see many RO fans selling their jumbo for the OS ultra-thin.

[brettpaul]

I like the VC heritage and the bezel design is a thing of beauty, but the dial is a let-down IMHO. For the money I'd go PP 5711R or AP 15202R. I'm also pretty sure you'd take a hit in the wallet if you ever wanted to make a lateral move or trade up.

[JorgeCCW]

the main problem for me is value retention, if I like it that much i would buy it pre-loved.
One of my complaints with the 5711 and 5712/1a is the weight, that VC will solve that and probably the bezel is less prone to scratch. But try to trade or sell that VC, i will be saying "good luck with that"

[lapince]

Originally Posted by willski

The Overseas Ultra Thin is priced at $55,700.
The 5711-1R is $51,000 and the 15202OR is $50,800.
I agree that the Ultra Thin is over-priced, but in fairness it's in the same ballpark as its main rivals.
What do you think would be 'fair pricing' to take into account the lack of prestige, history etc.?

I would say at least 10K less than the 5711-1R, maybe in that case some would go for it, but when you have those prices you need to be nuts in my book to choose the VC over the PP and AP, for me it is clearly behind them...

Originally Posted by cervantes

With you. And when the watch is inevitably released in steel for 25K or so, it'll be a viable alternative to the Jumbo and 5711. Though I don't see many RO fans selling their jumbo for the OS ultra-thin.

In steel for 25K would still be way overpriced, both PP and AP have the historic and iconic status that VC will never have, so to make it interesting they need to clearly be competitive price wise, I think they are going for a big disappointment at VC to be honest, if they thought they were going to get market shares from AP and PP they were dreaming IMHO

Originally Posted by brettpaul

I like the VC heritage and the bezel design is a thing of beauty, but the dial is a let-down IMHO. For the money I'd go PP 5711R or AP 15202R. I'm also pretty sure you'd take a hit in the wallet if you ever wanted to make a lateral move or trade up.

Oh I think they will loose between 35-50% on resale, maybe even more as VC has resale levels closer to Hublot rather than AP/PP, again if you really want it wait for them to arrive on the preowned or grey market, don't get from AD, even with good discount...

[lapince]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

the main problem for me is value retention, if I like it that much i would buy it pre-loved.
One of my complaints with the 5711 and 5712/1a is the weight, that VC will solve that and probably the bezel is less prone to scratch. But try to trade or sell that VC, i will be saying "good luck with that"

I don't get your complaint about the weight, you think the PP's are too light? Can't imagine you would think they are too heavy, for me they are perfect, sure it's not a 20 gram RM but at 110grams for a full SS watch the 5712 is perfect for me

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by lapince

I don't get your complaint about the weight, you think the PP's are too light? Can't imagine you would think they are too heavy, for me they are perfect, sure it's not a 20 gram RM but at 110grams for a full SS watch the 5712 is perfect for me

That's why I have a 5712R instead of the 5712/1a; I love that watch but for me it felt like a Reverso on my wrist LOL.... the gold version took care of that. Obviously I am on the minority otherwise the 5711 wouldn't be selling like pancakes LOL ....

But is also true that my 5146g is as light and I don't have that complaint, so a conclusion could be : if the case is gonna be light have the watch with a strap because when you add a SS bracelet the watch wobbles like butter on my wrist; so the fit has to be snug to make the watch work for me. So it could be related to the link 1/2 issue that other members had mention in the past.

But even if I Fix the issue with the 1 1/2 link , I still prefer the R version ; hot AF

Hope all is good with you Arnaud

Cheers !


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[lapince]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

That's why I have a 5712R instead of the 5712/1a; I love that watch but for me it felt like a Reverso on my wrist LOL.... the gold version took care of that. Obviously I am on the minority otherwise the 5711 wouldn't be selling like pancakes LOL ....

But is also true that my 5146g is as light and I don't have that complaint, so a conclusion could be : if the case is gonna be light have the watch with a strap because when you add a SS bracelet the watch wobbles like butter on my wrist; so the fit has to be snug to make the watch work for me. So it could be related to the link 1/2 issue that other members had mention in the past.

But even if I Fix the issue with the 1 1/2 link , I still prefer the R version ; hot AF

Hope all is good with you Arnaud

Cheers !

Ok I get it Well with me it's just fine as I do wear it very tight, it doesn't move at all, took out 3 links and the fit is just perfect, a tad tight at times but it's summer so it's normal, the fit should be perfect soon, in any case when my wrist is swollen I can wear the AP.

I love both SS and RG but with preference to the SS, love how it looks on bracelet, not a big fan of full RG pieces but if one day they make one with a really cool dial color I may be in trouble, the 5711-1R is nice but the dial color is somehow not super appealing to me, had they done the same color as the 5712R or the 5980-1R that would have been quite different.

Thanks buddy all is ok with me, am building up the collection a few pieces, just got a 5712 and soon a 5167R, anxiously waiting for that one, have been having an itch for a RG on rubber, hesitated a lot over which one to get, mostly this or AP RG 44, but think it's the best one for me, might add another Nautilus depending on what they will release for 40th or Basel, we'll see...

Take care mate

Cheers

[Peterandwatches]

Actually really like the VC. The standard date version could represent pretty good value on the 2nd hand market, and I applaud them for having a nifty bracelet swap.

[tinygears]

Originally Posted by RUK

200% of the price of a 5711 now and may be .75% of the price of a 5711 in 5 years?

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Bingo!

[Plastique999]

Originally Posted by willski

The Overseas Ultra Thin is priced at $55,700.

The 5711-1R is $51,000 and the 15202OR is $50,800.

I agree that the Ultra Thin is over-priced, but in fairness it's in the same ballpark as its main rivals.

What do you think would be 'fair pricing' to take into account the lack of prestige, history etc.?


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I think that Vacheron is underappreciated and is certainly not popular amongst younger clientele. Young folk like the audacious AP or the bold PP (Nautilus/Aquanut). As the oldest watch manufacturer, there is an extreme amount of heritage and tradition....you can get a better idea on thehourlounge.com.
Vacheron is more about specialization and exclusivity - very different from AP's and PP's of which mass watch collectors generally have.
If you look at TRF, there is an "Incoming" almost every other thread in the PP section...in this sense, everyone seems to have these. AP's in Socal are a dime a dozen like Porsche 911's - to me that is not special.

Vacheron is more unique, and you don't see many of these in the wild or even on TRF or WUS. Even in the present day, look at the Quai de l'ile, where you can customize your own watch.

The problem I have with this Ultra thin design is that to me the Overseas is a "sports" dress watch. I don't mind my Overseas being thick and a little bulky. I also don't feel the bold Maltese bezel sits well on a thin case. The bracelet is amazing, but I never wear mine on bracelet because I like the sporty look on navy leather croc.

If I had to price this watch in WG, I would consider it (only if I were interested in it) IF it were in the $35-45k range. But I believe VC priced it for a reason. It is not for the masses, so that everyone can post an "Incoming" thread. It is designed for exclusivity for those who dare to be different.

I do agree on resale not being great on VC pieces....I think it is because VC is misunderstood.

[JP Chestnut]

The PP is much better looking. The VC looks like a very basic case design.

[willski]

Originally Posted by Plastique999

I think that Vacheron is underappreciated and is certainly not popular amongst younger clientele. Young folk like the audacious AP or the bold PP (Nautilus/Aquanut). As the oldest watch manufacturer, there is an extreme amount of heritage and tradition....you can get a better idea on thehourlounge.com.

Vacheron is more about specialization and exclusivity - very different from AP's and PP's of which mass watch collectors generally have.

If you look at TRF, there is an "Incoming" almost every other thread in the PP section...in this sense, everyone seems to have these. AP's in Socal are a dime a dozen like Porsche 911's - to me that is not special.



Vacheron is more unique, and you don't see many of these in the wild or even on TRF or WUS. Even in the present day, look at the Quai de l'ile, where you can customize your own watch.



The problem I have with this Ultra thin design is that to me the Overseas is a "sports" dress watch. I don't mind my Overseas being thick and a little bulky. I also don't feel the bold Maltese bezel sits well on a thin case. The bracelet is amazing, but I never wear mine on bracelet because I like the sporty look on navy leather croc.



If I had to price this watch in WG, I would consider it (only if I were interested in it) IF it were in the $35-45k range. But I believe VC priced it for a reason. It is not for the masses, so that everyone can post an "Incoming" thread. It is designed for exclusivity for those who dare to be different.



I do agree on resale not being great on VC pieces....I think it is because VC is misunderstood.

Thanks for your comments.

I have to say I agree re. the under appreciated part and also recognize the special pieces VC can do on request. They're a great manufacturer with lots of history and great pieces.

Re. AP and PP incomings, the vast majority are 15202/15400/ROO/5711 and 5712 (which are all great watches). We don't often see, but still do now and then, incomings of the 'higher end' pieces or more niche pieces.

In fairness and as you mention, there is a superb secondary market for those pieces which gives a lot of comfort to buyers though...


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[Plastique999]

Originally Posted by willski

Thanks for your comments.

Re. AP and PP incomings, the vast majority are 15202/15400/ROO/5711 and 5712 (which are all great watches). We don't often see, but still do now and then, incomings of the 'higher end' pieces or more niche pieces.


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This is what I do not understand....the incoming is of the SAME watch over and over and over again...5712, 5711, 15202, etc etc.

I compare it to car forums, such as Fchat. You don't see many 360's or 430's, and yet hardly anyone posts that they have an "Incoming."

I would totally understand if it were some unique limited edition such as an AP Tourbillon Concept.

Sorry for rant. Back on topic, I do like the case back of the Ultra slim in that you can see the nice in house movement.


Sent from my 16M

[lapince]

clearly just on looks you have AP and PP on top, and VC is clearly below, I'm sure they're very well made, but they are far from having the looks of a Nautilus/Aquanaut, or a RO/ROO, for me VC is more very dressy pieces, they haven't achieved to get a great iconic sport watch, but not everyone can, I'm sure they would be very happy to sell as much as AP or PP, but won't happen soon, and about mass sales I really don't think you can talk about mass sales about 5711 or 15202 watches, I never ever saw a 5711 in an AD and saw only once a 15202, we are far from mass sales IMO, just that a good quantity of people who want a 5711 and buy them are probably on watch forums

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Plastique999

This is what I do not understand....the incoming is of the SAME watch over and over and over again...5712, 5711, 15202, etc etc.

I compare it to car forums, such as Fchat. You don't see many 360's or 430's, and yet hardly anyone posts that they have an "Incoming."

I would totally understand if it were some unique limited edition such as an AP Tourbillon Concept.

Sorry for rant. Back on topic, I do like the case back of the Ultra slim in that you can see the nice in house movement.


Sent from my 16M

Uhhh yeah, because they are the coolest dressy sport watches around and this is a sport oriented forum, and yeah not everyone can afford Tourbillon Concept from AP, plus it's not for nothing that the RO/ROO, Nautilus/Aquanaut are the most wanted high end watches, and it's a little logical that you see many incomings... Car and watch forums are very different, watches are for very passionate people as nowadays watches are not something you need at all, my favorite threads are not incomings but they are still popular, to be honest when the incoming is from a member I do not know I don't really care but it's nice to know that a member you know got a new watch, so the incomings are a big part of TRF, even if it's the same incoming 3 times a week, on the general watch sales these watches are a drop in the ocean and clearly the top ones at "affordable" prices, if you can call affordable 20-30K steel watches...

[Plastique999]

Originally Posted by lapince

Uhhh yeah, because they are the coolest dressy sport watches around and this is a sport oriented forum, and yeah not everyone can afford Tourbillon Concept from AP, plus it's not for nothing that the RO/ROO, Nautilus/Aquanaut are the most wanted high end watches, and it's a little logical that you see many incomings... Car and watch forums are very different, watches are for very passionate people as nowadays watches are not something you need at all, my favorite threads are not incomings but they are still popular, to be honest when the incoming is from a member I do not know I don't really care but it's nice to know that a member you know got a new watch, so the incomings are a big part of TRF, even if it's the same incoming 3 times a week, on the general watch sales these watches are a drop in the ocean and clearly the top ones at "affordable" prices, if you can call affordable 20-30K steel watches...

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy for the person who receives a prized Nautilus or AP.
I just don't get how there are probably 100's of Incoming threads of the same watch, just seems repetitive.
If and when I receive my 5712, I won't post a new Incoming thread because I feel everyone else has posted about this watch ad nauseum.



Sent from my 16M

[soundserious]

VC has changed this line so many times, well made pieces but not in any way iconic. The Patek has remained spiritually the same for decades.

[KarlS]

I owned a VC patrimony for a decade or so and when comparing the aesthetics to a calatrava etc there isn't much of a muchness. I think they bring some unique ideas like the various watch straps, the quie de lisle and the complexity of the world time but I think they just miss the mark aesthetically at times. The reason for the absence of Inomings has less to do with exclusivity versus people would just rather buy other watches!! The world time may have 37 or whatever time zones but too big and too messy, we are comparing wrong watches in this thread completely and at $55000 I can think of a lot of watches I would rather have than this particular model. The VC chrono may be great but how will it stack against a 5170 and Datograph....zero chance from a consumer perspective! Great heritage but loved in some parts of world more than others.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Plastique999

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy for the person who receives a prized Nautilus or AP.
I just don't get how there are probably 100's of Incoming threads of the same watch, just seems repetitive.
If and when I receive my 5712, I won't post a new Incoming thread because I feel everyone else has posted about this watch ad nauseum.



Sent from my 16M

I know what you mean. As such I typically just post in the wruw thread instead of making an incoming thread

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Plastique999

If and when I receive my 5712, I won't post a new Incoming thread because I feel everyone else has posted about this watch ad nauseum.

I agree, oh wait I just did a 5712 incoming thread yesterday

[KarlS]

^ ok so you dont want me to post another 5711 incoming post then?

[lapince]

Originally Posted by KarlS

^ ok so you dont want me to post another 5711 incoming post then?

I do buddy, like I said it's always nice to know the last watch a pillar member of TRF got lately, but from some new members can't say I'm very excited, give them the usual congrats but that's it, but you we've been waiting for so long for you to get a Nautilus that of course we want you to post