How much wrist movement is necessary

[johnbicht]

I would love some experienced people to give me some thoughts on this.

I have a Submariner 16800 that I have had since new. It has developed a peculiarity. It was serviced a little over a year and a half ago. For a long time it ran well, just 2-2.5 seconds slow per day - yes I am that kind of note keeper. Then one day some months ago I woke up and discovered that it had stopped early in the morning. Without thinking hard about it I only gave it a bit of a shake and it restarted. Stopped again in a few days. Found out that I should have wound it properly. I wear the watch continuously except for the shower.

I then began winding the watch 40 turns. It would keep brilliant time until a few days later and it would then lose a few seconds a day, and I would wind it again. It cycled along like this for a month or more before I sent it back to the chap that had serviced it. He could not find anything wrong at all. Since it was running slow before, he suggested (and did) speed the timing up 2 seconds.

On return I wound it 40 turns and set it. It ran fast, 1.5 to 2 seconds a day until 6 days days later it lost 12 seconds in one day and stopped again. It is now apparently cycling in this mode.

The last time it lost 12 or so seconds I wound it before I went to bed, so avoided the stoppage.

Under all conditions of losing a lot of time, I can feel that the mainspring does not require as much effort in the first couple turns of winding. The spring is definitely very low on power at the beginning of winding.

I am mostly at my desk these last few years. I type, get up and move around. I do some work in our shop, but not usually very much. I go for a 20 minute walk most days.

Am I not keeping the watch wound enough with my routine? How much activity is expected to keep it wound.

It always stops in the morning before I wake up - around 6-7 o'clock.

[Andad]

IMO you are doing more than enough to keep your Rolex wound up.
It needs to be checked out.

[Tools]

Hi..

It's hard to tell if you are concerned with the timing, or the stopping..

What will happen with a watch that is not wound, it will speed up slightly or become erratic because the mainspring is not putting enough torque in the system to positively lock and unlock the escapement..

If you wind your watch fully, does it stay wound, unworn, for about 40 hours.... if so, then the mainspring is probably fine..

If you do wind it, and wear it, but it stops after a few days......... I would suspect the auto-wind rotor (or assembly) is not functioning correctly.

Did you take it to a proper Rolex service watchmaker......

[Balboa]

Hi and Welcome-

It is difficult to be sure if your daily movement is enough to keep your watch fully wound. It's a tough thing to quantify.

I am unsure of the exact power reserve spec on a 16800, but assume it is in the 42-48 hour range. Whatever the number is allow that it is probably a little optimistic. They are rated on a new watch in perfect mechanical condition.

Why not do a simple test? Set your time and date to numbers you can easily reference. Wind your watch 40-50 turns and put it down. See how long it runs on its own with no movement. This will tell you your real power reserve.

I would consider anything about 36 hours or more to be quite good. Significantly less might indicate a mechanical problem.

If it turns out all you have to do is wind your watch every three to four days, I would consider that a great alternative to an expensive service.

Mark

[johnbicht]

I will start the power reserve timing tomorrow. I have known of the concept, but it did not occur to me how many things would be determined by it.

My concern is the watch stopping and then the timing. I have never in 24 years had to worry if the watch stopped.

[johnbicht]

I did the power test and the watch ran 46.5 hours sitting on my desk after winding. It seems that there is not excessive friction from somewhere, nor is the mainspring/barrel lube a problem.

I can only conclude that either I don't move enough, or the winding mechanism isn't working correctly. On returning the watch to the person who serviced it, he reported that with the back off everything was quite free and normal and he saw no marks indicating that anything had been touching either the movement or the case back.

[Balboa]

Seems your watch is just fine. 46 hours power reserve is excellent. Just wind it every few days or every day if you want and enjoy it.

Mark

[gregdolley]

I sometimes have this same problem...

Trouble is, the "amount of wrist movement" is hard to quantify. The only way to really tell if it's a problem with you or the watch, is to test two or more watches and see if the problem happens on all watches. Obviously, if the same problem happens on say two other watches, the problem is almost definitely lack of movement because it'd be very unlikely that all three watches are broken simultaneously.

I have two other automatics besides my datejust (a fairly new Tissot 7750, and an old Tudor) and all three will sometimes exhibit this problem of stopping during the night. In fact, I can typically predict when it'll happen now.

Since you say you've changed your work activity in recent years - and your new activity sounds very seditary, I think your wrist movement is simply too little.

[johnbicht]

Does anyone else have this same kind of experience? Are there any pro's out there - they would have a greater depth of experience with a large customer base - that can offer thoughts?

As far as winding it every week, I am simply concerned with wearing out the crown gaskets and stuff.

[gregdolley]

Originally Posted by johnbicht

Does anyone else have this same kind of experience? Are there any pro's out there - they would have a greater depth of experience with a large customer base - that can offer thoughts?

As far as winding it every week, I am simply concerned with wearing out the crown gaskets and stuff.

Don't be worried about wearing out the crown gaskets, threads, or anything. Remember, there are still manual wind models which have survived decades - and those need winding almost every day (not just once a week).

[johnbicht]

I believe the manual wind models don't have real waterproof expectations.

Conventional wisdom from multiple sources suggests that case tubes and gaskets are things to be careful of. The reason my watch was serviced was internal condensation. The replacement of case tube, crown and gaskets fixed it - where an old fart who first did a service without changing the metal work and used NOS gaskets did not fix it. These things do wear. For diver's it is suggested that watches are checked yearly for leakage.

I believe that my concern is correct.

I do not have this watch to be careful of it. The thing I admire about Rolex watches, when they are cared for occasionally, is that they can take it. My vocation is designer. The products that I design and build do what a good Rolex will. They are as bullet proof as possible, and get the job done without messing around.

[Rikki]

What might be the problem is the reversing wheels and or the axle jewels are excessively worn so it's taking more motion to keep your mainspring at full tork which will change your amplitude and cause timing issues. The probem is not in your mainspring or gear train it's in the auto winder. To replace the axle jewels and reversing wheels costs about 150 dollars which I suppose is better than winding it all the time and wearing those parts prematurely. The tube and crown can be screwed and unscrewed a finite amount of times before they wear out and if gold can cost up to 150 or more so it's up to you what to do. Hope that helps Rik the watchmaker

[rsmithor]

I went thru the same thing with my GMT... (less power reserve than the GMT II) I had it checked out, at the same time I paid for the timing test and took care of the 2mins fast per week... I even worn it in my sleep... thinking I wouldn't have to wind it every 3-4 days... not the case... the solution for me, a watch winder... 2yrs later... i wind it once a month or so... it's always fully wound, it has a proper storage place, and it's always ready to wear.

[dicin]

My GMT Master II Z series did the same thing.
I did more tests and after you removed it off the wrist it stopped working after 4 hours. As soon as you move it a few times it starts up again for a minute or so.

I decided to talk to the reputable high end watch dealer in Montreal where I purchased it. They kept it in a watch winder for 24hrs and then stopped the winder for a few hours. The GMT stopped ticking after about two hours. They have sent it for repair.

Waiting for the prognostics.

[Skutt50]

This is exactly the way my DJ behaved before servicing. The problem was the automatic winding that did not perform correctly.

After service I have no problem with time reserve. In my opinion your movement pattern should keep the watch fully wound. My 2 c worth there is some problem with the auto winding mechanism.

[johnbicht]

By the way, I have somewhat taken over the maintenance of my watch.

I bought some tools, took the back off, had a look at the winding parts, thought the jewels for the rotor looked dry, put a minute speck of grease on them, and the watch is running fine for several months now.

I am now in the process of timing the watch.

Before everyone goes bananas about an amateur working on his Rolex, I am rather skilled in a multitude of other similar in nature disciplines.