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Old 13 October 2015, 01:30 PM   #1
bumpssi
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Questions - Tiffany & Co. 5167

Hey so I've seen many pictures and don't see any here. Does anyone know the price on a new Tiffany & Co Dial 5167- also the way to order it. I know it only comes from there flagship store and am wondering if it's a good buy for the extra money or to get a PREOWNED 5167 instead.

Thanks in advance
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Old 13 October 2015, 01:38 PM   #2
jon_jon
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You should be able to order it from any of the Tiffany stores that carry Patek watches. There may be a wait for the watch though. The price of the watch should be the same at all Patek ADs, somewhere near $18K USD.
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Old 13 October 2015, 02:24 PM   #3
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You just have to order one directly from Tiffany. Price would be full retail with no discount. I hear the waiting lists are long. I opted to pick up a preowned 5167 and have no regrets.
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Old 13 October 2015, 04:41 PM   #4
oneplustwo
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Hey so I've seen many pictures and don't see any here. Does anyone know the price on a new Tiffany & Co Dial 5167- also the way to order it. I know it only comes from there flagship store and am wondering if it's a good buy for the extra money or to get a PREOWNED 5167 instead.

Thanks in advance
Andrew, I think ordering a new one from Tiffany is a great idea. They are sold at the same retail price elsewhere but will be worth 15-20% more on the secondary market. Buying pre owned can save you probably 2-3k but if you expect to hold this watch for a longer period, Tiffany & Co stamp will pay for itself. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 13 October 2015, 05:40 PM   #5
unknown
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Do you want a patek or do you want a tiffany because tiffany sells its own watches



honestly I never understood why some people want to have that free advertisement on their dial
its a hype and imdont follow every hype

Would you want one with costco on the dial
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Old 13 October 2015, 06:10 PM   #6
oneplustwo
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Do you want a patek or do you want a tiffany because tiffany sells its own watches



honestly I never understood why some people want to have that free advertisement on their dial
its a hype and imdont follow every hype

Would you want one with costco on the dial

I heard the math is like this:

5167A began production in 2007. Estimated yearly production is 1.2k -1.5k. Each yr Tiffany stores get 10-20 pcs. So it is a 12k vs 160 ratio. Patek is about rarity and a differential factor even as trivial as T Co stamp sets these 160 pcs aside.
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Old 13 October 2015, 06:35 PM   #7
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I heard the math is like this:

5167A began production in 2007. Estimated yearly production is 1.2k -1.5k. Each yr Tiffany stores get 10-20 pcs. So it is a 12k vs 160 ratio. Patek is about rarity and a differential factor even as trivial as T Co stamp sets these 160 pcs aside.
Rarity is imo only important if patek made it rare
if there are 1,2k or 1,5k per year it is not rare and a stamp from a specific dealer doesnt change that
but that is my opinion ofcourse

if they make a unique reference like the 5396g..... than you have something special
but a standard watch witch a stamp is imo nothing special, you might as well buy a bamford piece

others worth mentioning are some of these worldtimers made for well known shops but at least these have a special dial ( guilloche, color, other city) and are always limited to 30 l 50 l 100
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Old 13 October 2015, 06:39 PM   #8
oneplustwo
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You are right. Tiffany 5396G is well worth a lot more than regular version. And LE world times as well. T Co dial commands a relatively small premium. This is what is happening on the market except some really "soft" models.


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Old 13 October 2015, 09:33 PM   #9
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Do you want a patek or do you want a tiffany because tiffany sells its own watches







honestly I never understood why some people want to have that free advertisement on their dial

its a hype and imdont follow every hype



Would you want one with costco on the dial

Agree. No interest in advertising for Tiffany ! That secondary market info is very subjective as well. Depends on the piece so saying that it's easily worth extra for the stamp is misleading.
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Old 13 October 2015, 09:43 PM   #10
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Genuine Tiffany stamped dials ALWAYS command a premium over non stamped on every model. Not misleading, its a fact. How much of a premium is model dependent but, everyone knows they are not only more rare but impossible to get a discount on so the full retail purchase price plays into the resale value.

For me, collecting watches at these levels is not only done for pleasure but, for investment purposes. I have never lost money on a watch, but, I buy them right and I know which models will appreciate.

A Tiffany stamped dial will always sell well on the secondary market. How many have you ever seen for sale preowned? Not many if any.
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Old 13 October 2015, 10:31 PM   #11
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I don't quite understand the attraction? Surely PP is the ultimate brand to have stamped onto a watch face, why would want you want any other brand on there as well?

I wonder how much a PP with a Rolex crown stamped onto the dial would be worth? Because I'm sure I've seen the PP/Rolex 'Limited Edition' in Bangkok at a great price ;)
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Old 14 October 2015, 01:53 AM   #12
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The relationship between Patek and Tiffany goes back ~ 150 years IIRC. However it has been ~ 10 years since Patek opened up a boutique inside Tiffany NYC location. There are certainly other long-term relationships between Patek and other retailers like Beyer and Gubelin in Switzerland. You will occasionally see a Beyer or Gubelin stamped Patek watch, although they do not routinely do the stamping.

If you enjoy Patek watches and like the Tiffany stamp on it, you should go for it. If not, then you shouldn't. It is not for everyone and you can even purchase a Patek watch from Tiffany without their stamp. I do feel Tiffany has built a good brand over the years and the name carries some weight within the jewelry community. Whether that carries over to the watch community, I don't know for sure. But I suppose certain collectors will look for dual branding and others won't really care.
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Old 14 October 2015, 04:11 AM   #13
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The relationship between Patek and Tiffany goes back ~ 150 years IIRC. However it has been ~ 10 years since Patek opened up a boutique inside Tiffany NYC location. There are certainly other long-term relationships between Patek and other retailers like Beyer and Gubelin in Switzerland. You will occasionally see a Beyer or Gubelin stamped Patek watch, although they do not routinely do the stamping.
Thanks for the info.
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Old 14 October 2015, 04:48 AM   #14
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Agree. No interest in advertising for Tiffany ! That secondary market info is very subjective as well. Depends on the piece so saying that it's easily worth extra for the stamp is misleading.
Agree completely with HorologyK on this one.
I can't understand paying a premium for a Tiffany co-brand on this piece. In fact I wouldn't buy it precisely for that reason.

Analogy that comes to mind is a baseball autographed by Babe Ruth has tremendous value to a collector. Add a signature of a lesser know player to the same ball and the value actually drops.

I'm not suggesting that the Tiffany stamp devalues that particular watch, or that Tiffany is necesarily a lesser know player. For some there is an undeniable attraction, and for this they willingly pay the added premium.
For me personally it's a deterrent, and offered two identical watches for the same price, I choose the Patek brand standing alone, and leave the Tiffany for my wife's necklace.

Always buy what appeals to you, and don't expect an investment windfall on this one, with or without the added text.
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Old 14 October 2015, 04:59 AM   #15
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Personal preferences wasn't what this thread was about. It was about knowing whether or not it was worth paying the premium for the Tiffany stamp.

Based on collectability, auction hammer prices and rarity, it is a no brainer. Tiffany stamped dials (with provenance to support it is genuine) command a HUGE premium over non stamped dials.

If you prefer the dial without the extra stamp that is another matter entirely. No one can disagree that it is less cluttered or not to their liking or whatever, but based on pure resale value, I would buy a Tiffany stamped PP over non for the same price 100 out of 100 times.
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Old 14 October 2015, 05:03 AM   #16
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id like to see one.
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Old 14 October 2015, 05:42 AM   #17
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Agree completely with HorologyK on this one.

I can't understand paying a premium for a Tiffany co-brand on this piece. In fact I wouldn't buy it precisely for that reason.



Analogy that comes to mind is a baseball autographed by Babe Ruth has tremendous value to a collector. Add a signature of a lesser know player to the same ball and the value actually drops.



I'm not suggesting that the Tiffany stamp devalues that particular watch, or that Tiffany is necesarily a lesser know player. For some there is an undeniable attraction, and for this they willingly pay the added premium.

For me personally it's a deterrent, and offered two identical watches for the same price, I choose the Patek brand standing alone, and leave the Tiffany for my wife's necklace.



Always buy what appeals to you, and don't expect an investment windfall on this one, with or without the added text.

Tony, you are wise.
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Old 14 October 2015, 08:42 AM   #18
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Personal preferences wasn't what this thread was about. It was about knowing whether or not it was worth paying the premium for the Tiffany stamp.

Based on collectability, auction hammer prices and rarity, it is a no brainer. Tiffany stamped dials (with provenance to support it is genuine) command a HUGE premium over non stamped dials.

If you prefer the dial without the extra stamp that is another matter entirely. No one can disagree that it is less cluttered or not to their liking or whatever, but based on pure resale value, I would buy a Tiffany stamped PP over non for the same price 100 out of 100 times.
Agree completely.
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Old 14 October 2015, 10:59 AM   #19
bumpssi
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Thanks so much for all the responses guys. Haven't decided what I'll do yet but a 5167a is in the future
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Old 14 October 2015, 01:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by rodwatch69 View Post
Personal preferences wasn't what this thread was about. It was about knowing whether or not it was worth paying the premium for the Tiffany stamp.

Based on collectability, auction hammer prices and rarity, it is a no brainer. Tiffany stamped dials (with provenance to support it is genuine) command a HUGE premium over non stamped dials.

If you prefer the dial without the extra stamp that is another matter entirely. No one can disagree that it is less cluttered or not to their liking or whatever, but based on pure resale value, I would buy a Tiffany stamped PP over non for the same price 100 out of 100 times.
+2

And do you have an idea how HUGE is the premium? Examples will be very welcome.
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Old 14 October 2015, 02:43 PM   #21
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If you like the Tiffany connection and are willing to wait longer (maybe a year who knows) then go for it. Simple, walk into any tiffany Patek dealer and get in line.
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Old 14 October 2015, 09:11 PM   #22
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Personally a fan...

I opted to put my name on the waiting list. It took about a year but it was worth the wait to me for the added rarity. I also thought celebrating the brand's shared heritage was a fun look.

It's a topic that divides the forum but I'd say 60/40 don't like it or worse.

What is not disputable is that it adds tangible dollar value to the resale.
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Old 14 October 2015, 09:53 PM   #23
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I had a friend of mine walked into the 5th ave Tiffany Boutique to buy a 5617r. Don't hold me to the prices, it was several years ago but, he put down a deposit of $5000 and had to wait one year. When the watch came in he was charged the balance on his original receipt of $25000 or something like that. However, in the year that he waited, PP raised the price to 36k. He actually purchased the watch for 15% off of the current price because Tiffany honored his original price. Again, these numbers aren't accurate but, it was something like that. Now, if he wants to sell it, he can get FULL CURRENT RETAIL for the watch essentially for life, while the preowned non stamped Tiffanys sell for 20-30 off.

Thats a real life example.
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Old 14 October 2015, 10:27 PM   #24
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Hopefully when our friend Patekaholic launches his Patekanomics website we will be able to say for sure how much value the Tiffany stamp adds for various watches.
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Old 14 October 2015, 11:35 PM   #25
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Please post a link to the site when it goes live. That sounds like a great idea and would make for a fantastic website. Smart cookie..
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Old 14 October 2015, 11:44 PM   #26
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You have to remember you pay full retail just for a stamp and wait longer
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Old 15 October 2015, 12:15 AM   #27
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This is an interesting discussion about projected secondary market price for a Patek watch that is dual branded with Tiffany. I am not an economist, but it seems secondary market pricing for any tangible product is based on supply and demand. Some people "create" demand by promoting a product via online watch forums and/or watch blogs. Reviews on print watch magazine or business magazines seem to have their role. Then there is the auction prices, which many believed have been "bid up" on many occasions.

Unless you work in the auction industry or the pre-owned watch retail industry, it is very difficult for an average watch purchaser or even a watch collector to determine the future watch price. As in the stock market, I don't think past performance is always an accurate predictor of future performance. We may say there is even a "bubble" in the luxury watch industry as sales may stagnate with the slowdown in the global economy, more specifically China.

I don't have any inside information to know if indeed Tiffany dual branded Patek watches command a significant premium over a single-branded Patek. But with others in the forum, I would be interested in seeing the numbers to see if it is merely a claim or backed up with sales numbers. I am not a statistician, but in statistics, they say a small sample size can skew the results leading some to make biased conclusions. I wonder if there may be an element of small sample size bias here, although I could be totally off base.
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Old 15 October 2015, 12:27 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoysterT View Post
I opted to put my name on the waiting list. It took about a year but it was worth the wait to me for the added rarity. I also thought celebrating the brand's shared heritage was a fun look.

It's a topic that divides the forum but I'd say 60/40 don't like it or worse.

What is not disputable is that it adds tangible dollar value to the resale.
I think it looks fine, nice and subtle.
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Old 15 October 2015, 02:55 AM   #29
HorologyK
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Hopefully when our friend Patekaholic launches his Patekanomics website we will be able to say for sure how much value the Tiffany stamp adds for various watches.

Exactly ! Until then it's all subjective and no numbers to backup the "Tiffany premium."
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Old 15 October 2015, 07:21 AM   #30
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I think it looks fine, just a matter of preference. likely higher resale vs. likely higher purchase price and likely longer wait time.
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