16523 Is it really full set? Thoughts.

[cemil]

Hi,

I am wondering if this "full set" is a genuine full set.

Being very new in the game, I cannot be sure if papers were added afterwards, as there are so many empty Rolex guarantee papers on eBay etc. so I wanted to ask your opinion. Is there a way to understand it?

The watch is from 1991, even though on the paper it says July 1992, I think it is fine. Probably Rolesors weren't selling like crazy also in the 90s so it might have waited a little. For the rest, I think the wooden box is correct. In 90s it was being used but I can't be sure for the papers. I would like to hear your opinion. What would be your estimate for a watch like this? It is unpolished and from a watch dealer with great reviews.

And lastly, as you see the bezel has the numbers faded away a little bit. Pardon my "ignorance" but is it possible to "fill" those gaps with black ink? I mean when the bezel is old and lost its new-look, is there are a treatment to do or buying a new bezel is the only option?

Thank you SO much in advance and greetings from Italy.

Here are the pictures.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by cemil

I am wondering if this "full set" is a genuine full set.

Yes, looks fine.

Originally Posted by cemil

I would like to hear your opinion. What would be your estimate for a watch like this? It is unpolished and from a watch dealer with great reviews.

That watch is far from unpolished. If a dealer was advertising it as such, I'd probably look elsewhere (regardless of the "great reviews"). YMMV.

If I were to overlook the misrepresentation, I'd personally say no more than +/- $14k US. YMMV there as well, as prices/demand can vary between geographic regions/locales/exchange-rates/etc.

Originally Posted by cemil

And lastly, as you see the bezel has the numbers faded away a little bit. Pardon my "ignorance" but is it possible to "fill" those gaps with black ink? I mean when the bezel is old and lost its new-look, is there are a treatment to do or buying a new bezel is the only option?

Yes, quite easy to re-fill with epoxy/enamel, assuming there is enough material left on the bezel.

That said, there are better examples out there that would need no such "reconditioning".

[cemil]

Originally Posted by freefly

Yes, looks fine.

That watch is far from unpolished. If a dealer was advertising it as such, I'd probably look elsewhere (regardless of the "great reviews"). YMMV.

If I were to overlook the misrepresentation, I'd personally say no more than +/- $14k US. YMMV there as well, as prices/demand can vary between geographic regions/locales/exchange-rates/etc.


Yes, quite easy to re-fill with epoxy/enamel, assuming there is enough material left on the bezel.

That said, there are better examples out there that would need no such "reconditioning".

Hello thanks a lot, how can you tell that the watch is far from unpolished? You mean it was polished or in the meaning that the owner didn’t really care about it? I really like this ref with this Mk3 dial. But the condition makes me rethink. He asks €15k, which is around 18.5usd.

[SeikoBake]

Inverted six dial; nice find. I also agree with $14-15k

[freefly]

Originally Posted by cemil

You mean it was polished or in the meaning that the owner didn’t really care about it?

Yes, I mean that the watch has definitely been polished. Condition is another matter, and this example is "middle of the road" IMO (not completely beat up, but not pristine either). IOW: A polished example in average condition.

[cemil]

Originally Posted by freefly

Yes, I mean that the watch has definitely been polished. Condition is another matter, and this example is "middle of the road" IMO (not completely beat up, but not pristine either). IOW: A polished example in average condition.

Thank you sir, I will ask the dealer about it as he insists on saying its unpolished

[fmc000]

Technically speaking is not a complete full set. Judging from the pictures there is no bezel protector and the polishing cloth is missing too (very very minor issues, I know).

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

[cemil]

Originally Posted by fmc000

Technically speaking is not a complete full set. Judging from the pictures there is no bezel protector and the polishing cloth is missing too (very very minor issues, I know).

Inviato dal mio SM-T719 utilizzando Tapatalk

Thank you, I am a detail maniac so this input is very important. Have a great day.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by cemil

Thank you sir, I will ask the dealer about it as he insists on saying its unpolished

Why would this be an issue with you?

The watch clearly shows clean brushing along the bracelet, without a single scratch - very unlikely with a well used watch. The only conclusion is that it has been freshened up for sale.

As to '91 or '92, if the paperwork says '92, that is what it is. Internet charts do not override actual paperwork. Serial prefix letters ran for 2 to 3 years, or more, and so nobody can factually say that a an E serial, or an X serial is absolutely a certain year, only a certain set of years plus or minus.

It is very unlikely that "papers" can be added afterwards, unless somebody is truly into counterfeiting. However, many, if not most, "full" sets around have been put together by the seller to bring in a higher price. If it has the stuff that you want - go for it. But don't fool yourself that every set is going to be a genuine, original, full-set, whatever that means to you.

[cemil]

Originally Posted by Tools

Why would this be an issue with you?

The watch clearly shows clean brushing along the bracelet, without a single scratch - very unlikely with a well used watch. The only conclusion is that it has been freshened up for sale.

As to '91 or '92, if the paperwork says '92, that is what it is. Internet charts do not override actual paperwork. Serial prefix letters ran for 2 to 3 years, or more, and so nobody can factually say that a an E serial, or an X serial is absolutely a certain year, only a certain set of years plus or minus.

It is very unlikely that "papers" can be added afterwards, unless somebody is truly into counterfeiting. However, many, if not most, "full" sets around have been put together by the seller to bring in a higher price. If it has the stuff that you want - go for it. But don't fool yourself that every set is going to be a genuine, original, full-set, whatever that means to you.

Great points, thank you. The reason this is an issue for me is that I do not like interventions for aesthetic purposes, while I am okay with them if they're technical or functional. I am an architect and I think the same way in my profession, or any other area where I am dealing with design pieces (new or vintage). In the end there is a reason I am looking for a 30 year old watch. I prefer having a watch with no physical interventions which are done to make it look "younger" or "cleaner". Same everywhere actually. While buying a classic car, this is one of the first things you look at. If the paint is original or not. Kind of similar.

Regarding the serial issue, yes you are right. I made several checks and this is the conclusion I came up to.

Papers.. I heard several times with my own ears from so-called watch dealers with great reviews, that they are creating those fake "full sets" with fake papers and even with fake "stamps" which looks original, as you said, to increase the value. In my opinion, doing such thing is no different than stealing someone's money. Again, there's a reason I am buying a 30 year old watch.

Thank you.