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Old 20 November 2019, 08:47 AM   #1
miamiclay
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No consensus on 1807 “reverse” bark President bracelets?

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Originally Posted by TCU34 View Post
So I was in Dallas for work and took the 1807 to the Rolex service center. ... They claimed that rolex never put bark on the outer links.
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Originally Posted by crowncollection View Post
Dallas are correct
crowncollection, did you mean Dallas are correct, specifically that Rolex never made “reverse” bark President bracelets with the bark on the outer links?

Assuming so - BarkMaster and Rob/powerfunk have both in the past apparently believed that Rolex did make reverse bark President bracelets (powerfunk linked the below photo), but crowncollection believes not ...* (I thought I remembered seeing an image of a Rolex catalog with reverse / outer link barking listed as a President bracelet option, but I can’t find it now, ... and I definitely do not trust my memory!)

I’m quite curious - I have no purchases with reverse bark pending, but I would very much like to know “the” answer, if there is one. (I do understand that if crowncollection is correct, proving that negative is nearly impossible.)

Do any of our other knowledgeable folks have any thoughts or relevant Rolex reference material on reverse barking?

* - I am distinctly NOT implying any discord at all among these (endlessly knowledge-generous) folks, but I’m reminded of a reputedly African proverb - “When lions fight, monkeys hide in trees.”
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Old 20 November 2019, 12:20 PM   #2
crowncollection
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No consensus on 1807 “reverse” bark President bracelets?

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Originally Posted by miamiclay View Post
crowncollection, did you mean Dallas are correct, specifically that Rolex never made “reverse” bark President bracelets with the bark on the outer links?



Assuming so - BarkMaster and Rob/powerfunk have both in the past apparently believed that Rolex did make reverse bark President bracelets (powerfunk linked the below photo), but crowncollection believes not ...* (I thought I remembered seeing an image of a Rolex catalog with reverse / outer link barking listed as a President bracelet option, but I can’t find it now, ... and I definitely do not trust my memory!)



I’m quite curious - I have no purchases with reverse bark pending, but I would very much like to know “the” answer, if there is one. (I do understand that if crowncollection is correct, proving that negative is nearly impossible.)



Do any of our other knowledgeable folks have any thoughts or relevant Rolex reference material on reverse barking?



* - I am distinctly NOT implying any discord at all among these (endlessly knowledge-generous) folks, but I’m reminded of a reputedly African proverb - “When lions fight, monkeys hide in trees.”

.

.


No band exists in any catalogue
No description of any model exists in any catalogue.

We see the same example over and over, there would be more don’t you think. ?


Rolex did weird things though for “special important customers “ they would never do today. A better explanation would likely be this below.

I have seen a president with documentation that rolex had added diamonds to an original band this was clearly approved by rolex New York in the 70’s who did the work

I think because there is a reverse Moire finish people think there would be a reverse bark finish model however, Rolex are fairly consistent and if you look at the reverse Moire model. The standard model is 1806 and the variations are 1810 and 1811, in other words they use different model numbers.
Why wouldn’t rolex use a different model number for reverse bark also ?
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Old 20 November 2019, 11:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
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No band exists in any catalogue
No description of any model exists in any catalogue.
Crowncollection is your best authority in the absence of any input from Rolex themselves.
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Old 21 November 2019, 12:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiclay View Post



Do any of our other knowledgeable folks have any thoughts or relevant Rolex reference material on reverse barking?



* - I am distinctly NOT implying any discord at all among these (endlessly knowledge-generous) folks, but I’m reminded of a reputedly African proverb - “When lions fight, monkeys hide in trees.”

.

.


I have some thoughts - and am not hiding in a tree.

Also, respectfully disagree that there is disagreement here. My reasons are below.

I think a key point in the discussion is what we mean by the word “make”. The linchpin is whether Rolex ever performed a reverse bark finish on a President bracelet. As a special request, we might accept this could have happened. Powerfunk has a good Reddit post from a couple of years ago that showed an example that appears to be factory made.



But if we mean that Rolex made a reverse bark finished President bracelet as an orderable item by an AD - then I say “no”. That’s because it would have surely appeared in the many catalogs, price lists and model numbers from that era. Yet no ocular proof exists.

For me, the proof of the pudding would be seeing genuine Rolex papers noting a reverse bark finished bracelet on the watch it describes.


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Old 21 November 2019, 12:47 AM   #5
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Thanks for posting all of this. It clears up a lot for me personally. I still can’t for the life of me figure out why my 1807 has barked outer links but who knows what my grandfather did or where he bought it.
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Old 21 November 2019, 12:49 AM   #6
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Also. What happened to Barkmaster? His profile says he hasn’t been active for over a year
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Old 21 November 2019, 12:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
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I have some thoughts - and am not hiding in a tree.

Also, respectfully disagree that there is disagreement here. My reasons are below.

I think a key point in the discussion is what we mean by the word “make”. The linchpin is whether Rolex ever performed a reverse bark finish on a President bracelet. As a special request, we might accept this could have happened. Powerfunk has a good Reddit post from a couple of years ago that showed an example that appears to be factory made.



But if we mean that Rolex made a reverse bark finished President bracelet as an orderable item by an AD - then I say “no”. That’s because it would have surely appeared in the many catalogs, price lists and model numbers from that era. Yet no ocular proof exists.

For me, the proof of the pudding would be seeing genuine Rolex papers noting a reverse bark finished bracelet on the watch it describes.


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Same author same watch again. ?


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Old 21 November 2019, 01:00 AM   #8
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Same author same watch again. ?

Yes that photo was posted by Powerfunk in his Reddit thread on barking Presidents. Don’t recall if that’s same watch you saw before, though.

I only posted it to note where it was seen.



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Old 21 November 2019, 08:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Yes that photo was posted by Powerfunk in his Reddit thread on barking Presidents. Don’t recall if that’s same watch you saw before, though.

I only posted it to note where it was seen.



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All I am saying is it’s always the same watch with reverse bark over and over people refer to and the info is from one author only. No offence to the author it’s nice post just not to be taken as gospel


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Old 21 November 2019, 09:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
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No band exists in any catalogue
No description of any model exists in any catalogue.

We see the same example over and over, there would be more don’t you think. ?

Rolex did weird things though for “special important customers “ they would never do today.
.

That sounds like “the” answer to me - Thanks!

I’m sure that re: special order, special client, 50 years ago ... almost anything is possible. The only other possibility that had occurred to me was that it might have been a limited-market, Japan-only or Mideast-only type of variant.

But, cc is 100% correct that, while I’ve seen other reverse-bark bracelets, the photo in this thread is the only one I’ve seen where the barking looks correct.

So, can I assume that there was also never a fully-barked (both center and outer links) as an ‘order-able’ model either? Did Rolex ever bark the 1807 cases?
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Old 21 November 2019, 11:00 AM   #11
TCU34
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I think I’ve come to the conclusion that my 1807 had a replacement bracelet (from an 1803) and my Grandfather put the bark on the lugs and the outer links himself.

Still can’t decide if I want to keep the bark or not.
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Old 21 November 2019, 09:20 PM   #12
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CROWNCOLLECTION off topic but you would know, is the middle links made a tad thicker FOR the bark finish?
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Old 21 November 2019, 09:56 PM   #13
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CROWNCOLLECTION off topic but you would know, is the middle links made a tad thicker FOR the bark finish?


Same weight do no imho


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Old 23 November 2019, 03:06 AM   #14
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I saw this yesterday evening and it nearly caused me to trip over my own feet with whiplash...
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Old 23 November 2019, 08:02 AM   #15
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I saw this yesterday evening and it nearly caused me to trip over my own feet with whiplash...


Ouch


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Old 23 November 2019, 10:07 AM   #16
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Thrilled to see the rare and incomparable triple barker

Arph, Arph, BowWow, Barf...


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Old 23 November 2019, 11:29 AM   #17
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No consensus on 1807 “reverse” bark President bracelets?

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I saw this yesterday evening and it nearly caused me to trip over my own feet with whiplash...


Gosh I think this is GORGEOUS.

Worn with a tuxedo and in its time I’m sure who ever wore it looked like $1000,000.

I’m also sure the original person who wore it was a millionaire.

These vintage solid gold Rolex are so intriguing because of the past lives they had led.

I’m sure the watch above has seen some very interesting things in its life!







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Old 23 November 2019, 10:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
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.

That sounds like “the” answer to me - Thanks!

I’m sure that re: special order, special client, 50 years ago ... almost anything is possible. The only other possibility that had occurred to me was that it might have been a limited-market, Japan-only or Mideast-only type of variant.

But, cc is 100% correct that, while I’ve seen other reverse-bark bracelets, the photo in this thread is the only one I’ve seen where the barking looks correct.

So, can I assume that there was also never a fully-barked (both center and outer links) as an ‘order-able’ model either? Did Rolex ever bark the 1807 cases?
no barked cases from the factory, one other possibility remains still, we all know most aftermarket barking is horrible, however there are some very good goldsmiths around and at least one worldwide must take enough pride in his work to make a mould of original barking and copy an original bark finish properly I would think ??
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Old 1 August 2020, 07:18 AM   #19
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I can see where "PowerFunk" posted a pic of a "reverse-barked" bracelet, but I don't recall weighing in on that... that said, I am old so please send me a link to refresh my memory!

It's definitely NOT in the catalog as others have mentioned.

Catalog
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...02#post1488002

Price Sheet
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=103946

Keep in mind that Rolex pressed the bark pattern whereas aftermarket is generally etched in. That's generally the quickest way to tell.

An 1807 with yellow gold bracelet and hidden clasp should have a clasp code of 8723. If the clasp code is 8385, the bracelet was not originally barked.

As I have stated before, the bark should be an enhancement; not a distraction. Less is more.
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Old 1 August 2020, 07:26 AM   #20
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Bark

Here's the fire
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Old 1 August 2020, 08:22 AM   #21
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BarkMaster, I share the Bark love!

One question - The Variations listed in your sig include a “barked lugs” variant. Did the factory ever do that?
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it's not luck is it...it's a tiny payback for the half million hrs we have all put into this nonsense
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Old 1 August 2020, 10:29 AM   #22
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Dealers made them by the fistful in the mid 70s to early 80s. There was an oil boomlet in those years and barked presidents became the "must own" fashion violation of the time. They glowed like flashlights in the clubs which allowed the ladies to spot Houston's latest oil thousandaire.

Also, there were no fakes yet and people knew it was real gold because you couldn't cut a fake. There was a bust around 83 which ended the fun. They were losing their allure, a friend complained the bark was shredding the cuff on his custom shirts :)
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Old 1 August 2020, 11:43 AM   #23
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Dealers made them by the fistful in the mid 70s to early 80s. There was an oil boomlet in those years and barked presidents became the "must own" fashion violation of the time. They glowed like flashlights in the clubs which allowed the ladies to spot Houston's latest oil thousandaire.

Also, there were no fakes yet and people knew it was real gold because you couldn't cut a fake. There was a bust around 83 which ended the fun. They were losing their allure, a friend complained the bark was shredding the cuff on his custom shirts :)
Have also heard these were popular in Miami around the late 70’s and early 80’s.
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Old 26 June 2021, 09:06 PM   #24
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Im looking at a two tone barked DJ, yes two tone with the steel jubilee bracelet barked on the steel links, together with the shoulders of the watch also barked, the gold parts are smooth They do not seem to be etched, more pressed,and the watch is declared genuine. I know the 80s was a wild time for various 'mods', but can this be genuine ??
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Old 27 June 2021, 01:29 AM   #25
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What is unfortunate about these watches is, unless your world is completely immersed in the less than 1% crowd, they look like $10 clones. I owned one of these when I was in high school. Mine, unfortunately, had a jumping quartz second hand.
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Old 27 June 2021, 05:17 PM   #26
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BarkMaster, I share the Bark love!

Old thread but still spectacular. The pic of the WG and YG bracelet together shows the fascinating attractiveness of the Bark design. While from a different era long ago the glow in the light is of timeless beauty. Always enlightening the information provided by crowncollection, the questions raised by miamiclay and the genuine delight about the Bark love shown by Barkmaster.

I remember miamiclay posting his 18249 but IRL WG Bark seems to be difficult to find. But they must be out there. Old collectors catalogues show examples like a 18079 (or 18249) with Stella lacquer dials. Mind blowing.

Probably more in crowncollection's territory are YG 18108/18308 models where diamonds come into play. One of the many things I don't know: Was it possible at the time (5-digit era) to select every dial available with the Bark models? Or with a dial swap even crown collection dials like honeycomb and others?

Imho with too much bling a Bark model results too busy to the eye but to each his own. As stated above reverse Bark isn't official most probably. A similar yet different finish might be Morelli's finish or Florentine finish (on 4-digit DDs only?).

The variety of models in the past gives us food for thinking today. Looking at the actual Rolex catalogue DD's configurations are rather limited compared to the 5-digit perspective. Regarding the latter I'm eager to watch and learn...
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Old 28 June 2021, 01:23 AM   #27
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I love the bark look. What a mysterious intriguing thread.

When I see the bark I think of raw unprocessed gold straight from the ground. It has such a rich look.

A chunk of gold.

70s and the 2000s were the best years for watches
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Old 28 June 2021, 04:42 AM   #28
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Im looking at a two tone barked DJ, yes two tone with the steel jubilee bracelet barked on the steel links, together with the shoulders of the watch also barked, the gold parts are smooth They do not seem to be etched, more pressed,and the watch is declared genuine. I know the 80s was a wild time for various 'mods', but can this be genuine ??
Steel bark is impossible I would say.
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Old 28 June 2021, 04:49 AM   #29
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I saw this yesterday evening and it nearly caused me to trip over my own feet with whiplash...
That is amazing. Reminds me of the frosted gold that AP does today. Will those watches be just as intriguing 50 years later? I will be too dead to know.
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Old 29 June 2021, 07:48 PM   #30
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Steel bark is impossible I would say.
I thought so too, thats why it intrigued me, but its deeply stamped as opposed to etched. I have some pics but cant post them here. Its now on its way to me
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