Speedmaster professional Hesalite discontinued??!

[mmaggi]

Keep in mind that the Moonwatch is arguably the most flipped watch in the history of watch making. A search on C24 for Omega Speedmaster Professional Moonwatch returned 2,172 hits.

That will NOT change with this new version and will only add more to the mix.

[owl.]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Keep in mind that the Moonwatch is arguably the most flipped watch in the history of watch making. A search on C24 for Omega Speedmaster Professional Moonwatch returned 2,172 hits.

That will NOT change with this new version and will only add more to the mix.

I recently saw a video that showed that the Speedmaster pro is the most bought chronograph

Sells more than a Daytona (obviously), El Primero, Heuer Carrera and many others

I wonder if the fact that it’s the most sold chrono relates to the fact that you can find a ton of them on Chrono 24


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ravager135]

Whether or not Omega discontinues this watch, they should be very careful about what replaces it and at what price point. The current Speedmaster Professional is a success not only in its design, but also its value. Anything approaching professional series Rolex models like the Submariner or GMT-Master II is going to be a big mistake.

[owl.]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

Whether or not Omega discontinues this watch, they should be very careful about what replaces it and at what price point. The current Speedmaster Professional is a success not only in its design, but also its value. Anything approaching professional series Rolex models like the Submariner or GMT-Master II is going to be a big mistake.

You mean approaching them price-wise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alllexandru]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Keep in mind that the Moonwatch is arguably the most flipped watch in the history of watch making. A search on C24 for Omega Speedmaster Professional Moonwatch returned 2,172 hits.

That will NOT change with this new version and will only add more to the mix.

Hmmmmm....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[owl.]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

Hmmmmm....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So what does this data tell us?

That the number of watches listed on chrono means nothing?

Tons of subs for sale

Yet their value increased when the new one was released (or stayed the same)

They definitely didn’t decrease


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alllexandru]

I was referring to numbers as being most flipped
Life is not just numbers, I don’t love watches for the value as per se but for what they are and represents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arcticsub]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Keep in mind that the Moonwatch is arguably the most flipped watch in the history of watch making. A search on C24 for Omega Speedmaster Professional Moonwatch returned 2,172 hits.

That will NOT change with this new version and will only add more to the mix.

Yeah I don't get your post at all. One could just as easily say the same about a lot of Rolex watches.

Any popular luxury watch is bound to be 'flipped'.

As someone else pointed out to you, the chrono24 part of your post shows that there are more subs on the market and they hold their value well. Same goes for the standard hesalite 1861. I should know because mine is now worth more than I paid for it after only a couple of years ownership.

[Arcticsub]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Not sure. But if you are referring to the Rolex sub, that’s apples and oranges my friend.

It is definitely a 100% apples to apples comparison. Both the sub and the speedmaster pro are classic watches. The snobbishness is also a bit eh gratuitous to say the least.

Pricewise the 1861 hesalite is rising quite a bit in the last period.

[owl.]

Originally Posted by alllexandru

I was referring to numbers as being most flipped
Life is not just numbers, I don’t love watches for the value as per se but for what they are and represents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here

I love them because they are very very personal items.

You take them with you everywhere.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Arcticsub

It is definitely a 100% apples to apples comparison. Both the sub and the speedmaster pro are classic watches. The snobbishness is also a bit eh gratuitous to say the least.

Pricewise the 1861 hesalite is rising quite a bit in the last period.

No, it’s not. Walk into any AD and see if you can get a sub, gmt, how about a Daytona? What about an explorer II. Didn’t think so. Go gray, you are paying well above MSRP. That’s simply not the case with the speedy. Either one of us can get a speedy pro at MSRP and most likely less.

Now, to be clear, in my opinion the Speedmaster may be the most important and historically relevant wristwatch period. But it’s not the same comparison when we are talking price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[owl.]

Originally Posted by Chester01

No, it’s not. Walk into any AD and see if you can get a sub, gmt, how about a Daytona? What about an explorer II. Didn’t think so. Go gray, you are paying well above MSRP. That’s simply not the case with the speedy. Either one of us can get a speedy pro at MSRP and most likely less.

Now, to be clear, in my opinion the Speedmaster may be the most important and historically relevant wristwatch period. But it’s not the same comparison when we are talking price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wonder what would happen if once this speedy is discontinued, omega applied a no discount policy, and limited supply to the new one

I wonder if it would close in on Rolex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by owl.

You mean approaching them price-wise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct. If someone has $9-10k to spend, it's going to go towards a Rolex (if one is available) almost every time. This is coming from someone who collects and loves both brands. The Speedmaster Pro has not and should not ever be a direct competitor to that second tier of Rolex sport watches. The Seamaster Professional Diver 300 for all intents and purposes is every bit the equal to a Submariner technically. The price disparity comes from reputation and brand perception.

The reason I still consider my Speedmaster Professional some of the best money I ever spent was because of what I got for that dollar value. I completely understand that the Speedmaster is an icon itself which commands market share, but it's also at a lower price point than most iconic chronographs; this is why it sells. For roughly half the cost you can get an icon that competes against the Daytona, Navitimer/Chronomat, Pilot Chronograph.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by owl.

I wonder what would happen if once this speedy is discontinued, omega applied a no discount policy, and limited supply to the new one

I wonder if it would close in on Rolex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s an interesting question. It is possible, but there seems to be a bias against omega right. How many folks here balked at 13k for the 321 speedmaster, a movement used by AP and PP and went to the moon and the chrono is extremely legible, and will plunk down well over MSRP for the Daytona an insignificant watch really. I mean no slam intended but it broke no new ground and is famous for celebrity affiliation and it’s legibility is a well documented problem. Yes the movement is great and it’s water resistant. But the silver snoopy certainly reached Daytona levels and passed it so it’s possible I suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[owl.]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

Correct. If someone has $9-10k to spend, it's going to go towards a Rolex (if one is available) almost every time. This is coming from someone who collects and loves both brands. The Speedmaster Pro has not and should not ever be a direct competitor to that second tier of Rolex sport watches. The Seamaster Professional Diver 300 for all intents and purposes is every bit the equal to a Submariner technically. The price disparity comes from reputation and brand perception.

The reason I still consider my Speedmaster Professional some of the best money I ever spent was because of what I got for that dollar value. I completely understand that the Speedmaster is an icon itself which commands market share, but it's also at a lower price point than most iconic chronographs; this is why it sells. For roughly half the cost you can get an icon that competes against the Daytona, Navitimer/Chronomat, Pilot Chronograph.

Agree


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[owl.]

Originally Posted by Chester01

That’s an interesting question. It is possible, but there seems to be a bias against omega right. How many folks here balked at 13k for the 321 speedmaster, a movement used by AP and PP and went to the moon and the chrono is extremely legible, and will plunk down well over MSRP for the Daytona an insignificant watch really. I mean no slam intended but it broke no new ground and is famous for celebrity affiliation and it’s legibility is a well documented problem. Yes the movement is great and it’s water resistant. But the silver snoopy certainly reached Daytona levels and passed it so it’s possible I suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I admit I didn’t know that AP and PP used the omega 321.

Can you elaborate on that?

Yeah I agree with you. I think the Daytona is cool because of Paul Newman’s auction

Other than that, nothing special

I guess it comes down to brand identity

[H25B]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

Correct. If someone has $9-10k to spend, it's going to go towards a Rolex (if one is available) almost every time. This is coming from someone who collects and loves both brands. The Speedmaster Pro has not and should not ever be a direct competitor to that second tier of Rolex sport watches. The Seamaster Professional Diver 300 for all intents and purposes is every bit the equal to a Submariner technically. The price disparity comes from reputation and brand perception.

The reason I still consider my Speedmaster Professional some of the best money I ever spent was because of what I got for that dollar value. I completely understand that the Speedmaster is an icon itself which commands market share, but it's also at a lower price point than most iconic chronographs; this is why it sells. For roughly half the cost you can get an icon that competes against the Daytona, Navitimer/Chronomat, Pilot Chronograph.

This is true.

IMO, the Speedmaster Professional is the best value in luxury sport watches. Should’ve bought mine a while ago but was too busy chasing down a Rolex at retail.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by owl.

I admit I didn’t know that AP and PP used the omega 321.

Can you elaborate on that?

Yeah I agree with you. I think the Daytona is cool because of Paul Newman’s auction

Other than that, nothing special

I guess it comes down to brand identity

I’m no expert but the 321 was developed by lemania and omega and was used by AP, VC, and PP. in those days, there was not this idea of inhouse. The movement was very good and Swiss and that was good enough for folks. Today their is this bias that in-house means better, which is erroneous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[owl.]

Originally Posted by Chester01

I’m no expert but the 321 was developed by lemania and omega and was used by AP, VC, and PP. in those days, there was not this idea of inhouse. The movement was very good and Swiss and that was good enough for folks. Today their is this bias that in-house means better, which is erroneous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ohhh okay.

Sounds more historically significant than the Daytona.

But we both knew that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alllexandru]

It was Lemania 1873, developed by Lemania.
Used byOmega and then they did 861-1861

The 1873 was used in the original form until recently by VC and the gang, with some tweaks for the beauty

I’m sure that are gents here who can give us more inside on this with accurate informations, please correct me if I’m wrong

[whiteibex]

The 321 is historically very important for Omega. Remember that back in 1957, there was no Daytona yet, and Omega hit very hard with the release of its "professional" collection (Seamaster, Railmaster, Speedmaster), aiming at Rolex for sure as the Seamaster/Sub battle was already in place.

But it was really the Speedmaster that was important in this release, in particular the 321. It took a couple years for Rolex to catch up with the release of the Daytona. Then the Quartz thing happened.

[mmaggi]

Guys.... this isn't difficult. The price tells us the demand.

The reason why the resale of a Sub is more $$$ is because of demand. The demand for a Moonwatch is nowhere near that of a Rolex Submariner.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by mmaggi

Guys.... this isn't difficult. The price tells us the demand.

The reason why the resale of a Sub is more $$$ is because of demand. The demand for a Moonwatch is nowhere near that of a Rolex Submariner.

Don't forget the supply side!

[owl.]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Don't forget the supply side!

Yup

Too much supply and that will drop the price

(I assume that’s why omega discounts the speedy)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thanos]

Always the 'value' argument. Ignore the value argument. The Speedy pro is legit. The Daytona? not so much.

[mmaggi]

Originally Posted by Thanos

Always the 'value' argument. Ignore the value argument. The Speedy pro is legit.

[BradSomrak]

Originally Posted by H25B

This is true.

IMO, the Speedmaster Professional is the best value in luxury sport watches. Should’ve bought mine a while ago but was too busy chasing down a Rolex at retail.

Based on what?

But the 1861 is an old movement. Doesn’t hack. Very outdated in terms of anti magnetism. Not a chronometer. Weak power reserve. Bracelet is garbage.

And it’s STILL 4K+ preowned, and close to 6K new. And that is almost entirely related to the “heritage” of being on the moon. (And, again, I am pro-Speedy)

But claiming it is some unbelievable “value,” IMO, is just not accurate. It may be a classic. It may be a watch everyone “has” to have to complete a collection. But I, personally, have never strapped on my Speedy and thought “what a great value here....”

Now the 3861s may be a different story......

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by BradSomrak

Based on what?

But the 1861 is an old movement. Doesn’t hack. Very outdated in terms of anti magnetism. Not a chronometer. Weak power reserve. Bracelet is garbage.

And it’s STILL 4K+ preowned, and close to 6K new. And that is almost entirely related to the “heritage” of being on the moon. (And, again, I am pro-Speedy)

But claiming it is some unbelievable “value,” IMO, is just not accurate. It may be a classic. It may be a watch everyone “has” to have to complete a collection. But I, personally, have never strapped on my Speedy and thought “what a great value here....”

Now the 3861s may be a different story......

2-3 years ago this was much better value. You could get a brand new Speedmaster for like $3500 and used for much cheaper. I bought my FOIS BNIB with AD warranty for $3500 3 years ago. My brother bought a hesalite Speedy BNIB from Jomashop no warranty like 4-5 years ago for around $3k. The price increases are relatively recent.

[BradSomrak]

Originally Posted by texasmade

2-3 years ago this was much better value. You could get a brand new Speedmaster for like $3500 and used for much cheaper. I bought my FOIS BNIB with AD warranty for $3500 3 years ago. My brother bought a hesalite Speedy BNIB from Jomashop no warranty like 4-5 years ago for around $3k. The price increases are relatively recent.

This I completely agree with. As a “value proposition” the Speedy was a much better buy 5 years ago. Now, they are arguably not a “value” at all - at least as it applies to 1861 based pieces.

[mongrelnomoad]

I’ve been wearing my Speedie FOIS these last few days after rotating through my PP, AP, Lange, GS and Rolex. You know what? It’s a damn fine watch in every respect, and a worthy companion to those others, and in some ways, superior.

Anyone who doesn’t see it is blinded by hype.