Goodbye AP ADs

[LAFLARE]

Maybe I have missed it in the thread, but throughout 5 pages I have not seen anyone mention a single source with concrete details. Did I miss something? I am aware that AP has been shutting down AD's all around, but certainly not that AP is closing shop on every single AD. Many AD's globally are titans for AP and closing them down would leave consumers empty handed.. Any sources? Anyone know if AP is keeping the high performing AD's?

Essentially if their goal is to eliminate grey dealers to retain full value, I can possibly see where they are going with this, however for everyone else this doesn't seem like it will fare well.

[HK Islandboy]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

thats one part of the world i have never been. Anything much further east than Dubai and im lost. I know HK is supposedly huge with luxury goods though for a small geographic location.

An AP booth, that sounds like london though.

...I’m surprised that Carlson is even allowed to keep the booth...it’s a wretched, low end shopping experience and their shop is about a block from a sizeable AP-branded JV “boutique”

[Tomas Eriksson]

AP is terminating the relationship with a few AD's in Scandinavia as well. Lindroos, Bjerke and Klarlund.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by HK Islandboy

...I’m surprised that Carlson is even allowed to keep the booth...it’s a wretched, low end shopping experience and their shop is about a block from a sizeable AP-branded JV “boutique”

I feel like it's a pity gesture to Carlson... they used to be one of the biggest and most important retailers of AP in HK. They ran the boutique under the AON China building for many years before any other boutiques opened.

However, I'm not sure holding AP is really a privilege anymore for ADs, more like a giant kick in between the legs. Invest $$$ into setting up a section, then get no stock except the scraps that AP doesn't really sell, with maybe a bone thrown in here and there.

[falkenauge]

Originally Posted by LAFLARE

Maybe I have missed it in the thread, but throughout 5 pages I have not seen anyone mention a single source with concrete details. Did I miss something? I am aware that AP has been shutting down AD's all around, but certainly not that AP is closing shop on every single AD. Many AD's globally are titans for AP and closing them down would leave consumers empty handed.. Any sources? Anyone know if AP is keeping the high performing AD's?

Essentially if their goal is to eliminate grey dealers to retain full value, I can possibly see where they are going with this, however for everyone else this doesn't seem like it will fare well.

Bucherer is still very much an important AD.

[HK Islandboy]

Originally Posted by tng11

I feel like it's a pity gesture to Carlson... they used to be one of the biggest and most important retailers of AP in HK. They ran the boutique under the AON China building for many years before any other boutiques opened.

However, I'm not sure holding AP is really a privilege anymore for ADs, more like a giant kick in between the legs. Invest $$$ into setting up a section, then get no stock except the scraps that AP doesn't really sell, with maybe a bone thrown in here and there.

....so kind of like being a Rolex AD these days

[tng11]

Originally Posted by HK Islandboy

....so kind of like being a Rolex AD these days

Despite your emoticon at the end, yes, it is kinda like being a Rolex AD these days.

You gotta love being an AD, being told you have to spend $750K+ to install a Rolex-only section in your shop while real estate ain't cheap these days, only to receive endless shipments of Datejusts and DayDates that languish in your inventory. For good gesture, you'll get one or two Daytonas and a few Subs, all while you're fielding dozens of calls and walk-in visitors every single working day for these models, who all end up leaving empty handed.

[HK Islandboy]

Originally Posted by tng11

Despite your emoticon at the end, yes, it is kinda like being a Rolex AD these days.

You gotta love being an AD, being told you have to spend $750K+ to install a Rolex-only section in your shop while real estate ain't cheap these days, only to receive endless shipments of Datejusts and DayDates that languish in your inventory. For good gesture, you'll get one or two Daytonas and a few Subs, all while you're fielding dozens of calls and walk-in visitors every single working day for these models, who all end up leaving empty handed.

The watch retailing model is broken - at least from what I see in HK. For any “in demand” brand (AP, PP, Rolex), vast amounts of money is wasted on expensive real estate that houses a couple of watches and a load of bored staff fiddling on their phones.

I would guess that 70%+ of sales are done over the phone / WeChat/ WhatsApp to pre-orders with the incoming pieces never making it onto the shop floor. In this environment, having a limited number of boutiques stocked with a reasonably complete set of models to try and to order makes sense and allows for a better representation of the brand.

...of course the AP boutiques I’ve been to don’t live up to that potential. While the staff are (for the most part) switched on, inventory levels are underwhelming and, as Ben alluded to in his post, if you aren’t spending vast money, you won’t get any excess of love and attention

[iceman1118]

Very true. While I agree the retail model is broken, the boutique should treat a buyer of a SS 15400 and a buyer of a royal oak offshore grand complication the same. Unfortunately, we know they do not. In this case, we know which buyer would get first crack at a SS 15407..

[HK Islandboy]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

Very true. While I agree the retail model is broken, the boutique should treat a buyer of a SS 15400 and a buyer of a royal oak offshore grand complication the same. Unfortunately, we know they do not. In this case, we know which buyer would get first crack at a SS 15407..

This is the risky position that AP is in - anyone (other than the most financially profligate) who buys an AP has achieved a degree of success and expects to be recognised and treated as having done so. But with a model consisting of few boutiques through which sales are channeled, someone who has “only” bought three or four APs is suddenly a bit player when compared to the people spending serious money there....and that’s not a very acceptable position for a client who views him/herself as a success to find him/herself in.

[Rachdanon]

Singapore is tiny spec on the globe, you can't even write "Singapore" without covering up the island and we have 2 boutiques and 4 ADS. How's that for disproportion haha...

Lots of mainland Chinese tourists come here though...that must be it.

From what I gathered from FHB's SIHH interviews, its like a targetted assassination of non-performing stores boutique or ADs to better control distribution and likely the leaks into the grey market.....

[iceman1118]

Originally Posted by HK Islandboy

This is the risky position that AP is in - anyone (other than the most financially profligate) who buys an AP has achieved a degree of success and expects to be recognised and treated as having done so. But with a model consisting of few boutiques through which sales are channeled, someone who has “only” bought three or four APs is suddenly a bit player when compared to the people spending serious money there....and that’s not a very acceptable position for a client who views him/herself as a success to find him/herself in.

100% correct and unfortunate. As an owner of two 15400s (one steel, one gold), a diver, and a navy offshore, even though this wasn't exactly cheap to purchase, I won't be given the same attention to the person who bought let's say one royal oak tourbillon or a royal oak grand comp. I don't expect the red carpet to be rolled out, but maybe I am seriously interested in a SS 15407 and I am sure it will never happen. But again, the buyer of the grand comp probably gets is in due time. (FYI, not interested in 15407, just an example).

I feel just as bad for the regular guy who doesn't know about TRF, other forums, watch websites, etc. and has lusted for a SS 15202 over the years and could never afford it. Now let's say he can due to the personal success you mention. He goes to his AD and that's a big time no go. He goes to the boutique and now he is either told no or he is at the end of what we assume to be a very long list. At the end of the day it just doesn't seem fair. Even though these are pricey objects, it still is just a piece of metal that tells time.

[AshAP]

For some reason people here (TRF) seem to think that it’s difficult to have a relationship with the boutique. Maybe the U.K. is different but the people at the London HQ/Office/lounge are very welcoming and when you talk about going on lists for in demand pieces there’s a very positive reaction.

I don’t get why everyone is being so negative given that you’re likely to be successful in your own right and possess the skills to forge strong relationships with people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[iceman1118]

Originally Posted by AshAP

For some reason people here (TRF) seem to think that it’s difficult to have a relationship with the boutique. Maybe the U.K. is different but the people at the London HQ/Office/lounge are very welcoming and when you talk about going on lists for in demand pieces there’s a very positive reaction.

I don’t get why everyone is being so negative given that you’re likely to be successful in your own right and possess the skills to forge strong relationships with people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am actually not trying to be negative. I have bought two of my pieces from the boutique in NYC. I have a relationship with one person in there, but recently I have not seen her as much as I used to. My relationship with my AD is different because it is his store and he is there almost all of the time so he is willing to take the time to have that personal touch with me and other people of course. But with boutique employees, they are exactly that, employees. I have seen the same salespeople working at different watch boutiques along Madison Ave quite often through the years. I think it is harder to develop and keep relationships when that happens, especially when said salesperson goes to a brand I don't have much interest in.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by AshAP

For some reason people here (TRF) seem to think that it’s difficult to have a relationship with the boutique. Maybe the U.K. is different but the people at the London HQ/Office/lounge are very welcoming and when you talk about going on lists for in demand pieces there’s a very positive reaction.

I don’t get why everyone is being so negative given that you’re likely to be successful in your own right and possess the skills to forge strong relationships with people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I disagree Ash. It's not relationship building skills in AP case. It's buying power.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by HK Islandboy

The watch retailing model is broken - at least from what I see in HK. For any “in demand” brand (AP, PP, Rolex), vast amounts of money is wasted on expensive real estate that houses a couple of watches and a load of bored staff fiddling on their phones.

I would guess that 70%+ of sales are done over the phone / WeChat/ WhatsApp to pre-orders with the incoming pieces never making it onto the shop floor. In this environment, having a limited number of boutiques stocked with a reasonably complete set of models to try and to order makes sense and allows for a better representation of the brand.

...of course the AP boutiques I’ve been to don’t live up to that potential. While the staff are (for the most part) switched on, inventory levels are underwhelming and, as Ben alluded to in his post, if you aren’t spending vast money, you won’t get any excess of love and attention

100%. The one thing I find crazy about HK is simply how many ADs there are - there are Rolex ADs literally next door, across the street, a block away that all belong to the same chain, and all of them have the same atrocious inventory. And many of these shops are absolutely empty - in 10 days over the holidays I did not see a single person inside of any of the PP ADs (I walked by all of them multiple times), and when I stepped in, I would be the only person for the entire visit.

I have seen many mainland tourists walk in and pick up what's on the floor in the display case, but it really seems for locals, most people have pre-ordered their pieces and they never make it to the floor.

The sad part of this is how much real estate is wasted on having duplicative boutiques all while sales staff are just playing games on their cellphone. Yet, they were one of the major forces in driving retail rents through the roof, such that many local businesses couldn't stay afloat, which led to the hollowing out of Hong Kong's shopping culture (IMO).

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by AshAP

For some reason people here (TRF) seem to think that it’s difficult to have a relationship with the boutique. Maybe the U.K. is different but the people at the London HQ/Office/lounge are very welcoming and when you talk about going on lists for in demand pieces there’s a very positive reaction.

I don’t get why everyone is being so negative given that you’re likely to be successful in your own right and possess the skills to forge strong relationships with people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

First, yes, the salespeople at the boutique are rude, so it is different than how you say the UK is.

Second, I don't want to "build a relationship" with people selling me material items. That's not to say that I am not friends with some sellers in the watch world or that that doesn't inure to my benefit now and then, but I'm busy, I don't want to chat up or send cards to or pop by a store so that I have the ability to have them take my money. If anything, it should be reversed.

[iceman1118]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

First, yes, the salespeople at the boutique are rude, so it is different than how you say the UK is.

Second, I don't want to "build a relationship" with people selling me material items. That's not to say that I am not friends with some sellers in the watch world or that that doesn't inure to my benefit now and then, but I'm busy, I don't want to chat up or send cards to or pop by a store so that I have the ability to have them take my money. If anything, it should be reversed.

Agreed. It is almost like you are begging them for them to take your money. 100% should be the opposite.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by tng11

100%. The one thing I find crazy about HK is simply how many ADs there are - there are Rolex ADs literally next door, across the street, a block away that all belong to the same chain, and all of them have the same atrocious inventory. And many of these shops are absolutely empty - in 10 days over the holidays I did not see a single person inside of any of the PP ADs (I walked by all of them multiple times), and when I stepped in, I would be the only person for the entire visit.

I have seen many mainland tourists walk in and pick up what's on the floor in the display case, but it really seems for locals, most people have pre-ordered their pieces and they never make it to the floor.

The sad part of this is how much real estate is wasted on having duplicative boutiques all while sales staff are just playing games on their cellphone. Yet, they were one of the major forces in driving retail rents through the roof, such that many local businesses couldn't stay afloat, which led to the hollowing out of Hong Kong's shopping culture (IMO).

Obviously despite this not making sense, they must be still profitable otherwise these AD won't continue keeping the boutiques. During my recent trip to HK, I didn't even bother to visit any AD other than one that I know the salesperson as a friend. Because I know they will either treat me as a mainlander or tell me "no stock". LOL.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

First, yes, the salespeople at the boutique are rude, so it is different than how you say the UK is.

Second, I don't want to "build a relationship" with people selling me material items. That's not to say that I am not friends with some sellers in the watch world or that that doesn't inure to my benefit now and then, but I'm busy, I don't want to chat up or send cards to or pop by a store so that I have the ability to have them take my money. If anything, it should be reversed.

+1

It seems bass ackwards that I have to brown nose salespeople so that I can have the "privilege" of dropping $40K or $50K to get a SS watch.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

I feel just as bad for the regular guy who doesn't know about TRF, other forums, watch websites, etc. and has lusted for a SS 15202 over the years and could never afford it. Now let's say he can due to the personal success you mention. He goes to his AD and that's a big time no go. He goes to the boutique and now he is either told no or he is at the end of what we assume to be a very long list. At the end of the day it just doesn't seem fair. Even though these are pricey objects, it still is just a piece of metal that tells time.

I just don't know how many of these regular guys exist any more who are really into watches but don't look online for more info. The Iphone has so overtaken the world that for many younger people, probably the majority now, the cyber world is more real and important than the outside one.

Yes, I do think it's a shame that the retail experience is dying, but this is just how the techo world is progressing, and I think in future people will place more of a premium on being able to just get a watch and showing it off online than on how they buy it. It's nice to have a salesman or two be respectful of you but fades to nothing compared to thousands fawning and lusting over your new luxury watch. It already happens here on TRF altho we have a bit more substance than the Instas etc, and social media has played a huge part in the higher turnover and flipperitis that is helping to surge demand on popular pieces that are bought now not only to flip for money but to display on Social Media.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

Agreed. It is almost like you are begging them for them to take your money. 100% should be the opposite.

Agree. It's easy. Walk away. They are many great brand and watches out there.

Originally Posted by AK797

I just don't know how many of these regular guys exist any more who are really into watches but don't look online for more info. The Iphone has so overtaken the world that for many younger people, probably the majority now, the cyber world is more real and important than the outside one.

Yes, I do think it's a shame that the retail experience is dying, but this is just how the techo world is progressing, and I think in future people will place more of a premium on being able to get a watch and showing it off online than on how they buy it. It's nice to have a salesman or two be respectful of you but fades to nothing compared to thousands fawning and lusting over your new luxury watch. It already happens here on TRF altho we have a bit more substance than the Instas etc, and social media has played a huge part in the higher turnover and flipperitis that is helping to surge demand on popular pieces that are bought now not only to flip for money but to display on Social Media.

Sadly, what you said is true. Everyone seems to be starring at their smartphone non-stop when they are not sleeping, catching up on their social media. "Number of likes" is now more important than real world accomplishment for some of them.

[iceman1118]

Originally Posted by AK797

I just don't know how many of these regular guys exist any more who are really into watches but don't look online for more info. The Iphone has so overtaken the world that for many younger people, probably the majority now, the cyber world is more real and important than the outside one.

Yes, I do think it's a shame that the retail experience is dying, but this is just how the techo world is progressing, and I think in future people will place more of a premium on being able to get a watch and showing it off online than on how they buy it. It's nice to have a salesman or two be respectful of you but fades to nothing compared to thousands fawning and lusting over your new luxury watch. It already happens here on TRF altho we have a bit more substance than the Instas etc, and social media has played a huge part in the higher turnover and flipperitis that is helping to surge demand on popular pieces that are bought now not only to flip for money but to display on Social Media.

You are 100% correct. Although the difference between those people buying for the sole purpose of showing off on instagram and whatever else are not who we are on this and other forums. As a watch guy I appreciate the work gone in to making my timepiece. I appreciate the movement inside (most cases). I appreciate the prestige of the brand I am buying. I do not buy watches to show off in public or on social media (I have no social media just fyi). Someone who gets their new 15202 or 5711 because they saw it on instagram and had to have it is not in the same boat as we are. Yes, we have all flipped watches because we don't wear them anymore, but for the most part we buy these because of what they stand for and the exclusivity of owning such brands. And of course our genuine love for watches. This current social media explosion of watches and showing off has changed the playing field for those of us that actually appreciate the timepiece we are buying which I think is a shame.

[iceman1118]

[QUOTE=benlee;8277790]Agree. It's easy. Walk away. They are many great brand and watches out there.

You are right. So many fantastic brands out there. It doesn't pay to be so closed minded.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by benlee

Agree. It's easy. Walk away. They are many great brand and watches out there.



Sadly, what you said is true. Everyone seems to be starring at their smartphone non-stop when they are not sleeping, catching up on their social media. "Number of likes" is now more important than real world accomplishment for some of them.

Yes, the whole world now revolves around likes, and many poor young girls are having to post more and more racy images to get more and more and beat off their competition and... well I digress. I think even here some have suggested a like button but I think not, at least by making people reply and write out a comment there is some human interaction to our incomings and threads.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by AK797

Yes, the whole world now revolves around likes, and many poor young girls are having to post more and more racy images to get more and more and beat off their competition and... well I digress. I think even here some have suggested a like button but I think not, at least by making people reply and write out a comment there is some human interaction to our incomings and threads.

Phrasing...

[AK797]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

You are 100% correct. Although the difference between those people buying for the sole purpose of showing off on instagram and whatever else are not who we are on this and other forums. As a watch guy I appreciate the work gone in to making my timepiece. I appreciate the movement inside (most cases). I appreciate the prestige of the brand I am buying. I do not buy watches to show off in public or on social media (I have no social media just fyi). Someone who gets their new 15202 or 5711 because they saw it on instagram and had to have it is not in the same boat as we are. Yes, we have all flipped watches because we don't wear them anymore, but for the most part we buy these because of what they stand for and the exclusivity of owning such brands. And of course our genuine love for watches. This current social media explosion of watches and showing off has changed the playing field for those of us that actually appreciate the timepiece we are buying which I think is a shame.

It has certainly ruined our prices as there are so many buyers now, but as I love the watches I am still pleased that they are getting more well known even if thru the display of superficial rich kids and Insta-celebs, and out of their thousands of wannabe followers, a few may actually develop a deeper interest in watches, so a by product of the Iphone revolution may be that the mechanical timepiece survives the future yet.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Phrasing...

I'd like to say that was pure coincidence but Freud tells me maybe not...

[iceman1118]

Originally Posted by AK797

It has certainly ruined our prices as there are so many buyers now, but as I love the watches I am still pleased that they are getting more well known even if thru the display of superficial rich kids and Insta-celebs, and out of their thousands of wannabe followers, a few may actually develop a deeper interest in watches, so a by product of the Iphone revolution may be that the mechanical timepiece survives the future yet.

Definitely could be true. Always a silver lining!

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by tng11

+1

It seems bass ackwards that I have to brown nose salespeople so that I can have the "privilege" of dropping $40K or $50K to get a SS watch.

Fear not, you have been playing the game long enough to know that this isn’t the norm. When the markets ebb it will revert back to wide availability, modest to strong discounts OR cases full of watches.

When demand dies the companies can’t cut production to nothing. They have employees to feed.