You can't kill a legend..!

[Razhuul]

Hi all,

I've been reading a lot on the demise of Panerai and how they won't be able to turn it around and so on. But it seems like most people speaking on this, forget that success is circular, and the only thing that really matters, is if you are unique at your core. And in the world of luxury in particular, if your brand design is unique.

So yeah, I disagree with those people :)!

First of all; I love watches in general and own several Rolexe, a few APs, 1 PP, and 5 PAMS. So when it comes to worrying about future value, PAM is the least of my concerns TBH :-).

But in a discussion on whether a brand will rise again, the current value really isn't all that important. The Panerai design is by all accounts and measures ICONIC, in the same way a Porsche 911 is ICONIC. And unless you know a LOT about watches, there are precious few brands that are recognizable to the untrained eye or even stand out design-wise if you know nothing about watch brands.

The classical PAMs do however, and that is rare in watch design. Even some Pateks are (in my opinion) quite dull and hard to recognize at all - both up close and at a distance. And we all know that it's absolutely possible to do classic watch design and make it recognizable, many are - even Pateks!

How about we compare Panerai to another famous brand with iconic design for a minute? Hey, how about Porsche? One of the most successful brands in the automotive industry! Not the most expensive, not the fastest, but with beautiful lines, a rawness, high performance, and true heritage.

I think Porsche compares really nicely to Panerai, and look at where they are now when compared to their near-bankruptcy in the 1980s. Like Panerai, Porsche lost its way, in an attempt to attract a wider audience, and they made the "wrong cars" and cut out all the OG fans.

I feel like Panerai maneuvers in a comparable slump to the one Porsche was in, in the 80's. But with the iconic Panerai design, there is just no way they won't bounce back some time in the (near'ish) future, and when everyone wants the OG panerais, there just won't be THAT many around because we've all been fighting about getting a Submariner with the exclusive Black Bezel!!! And then prices will soar, just like 70s 911s did when Porsche again got their act together.

With the aggressive deals that you can do right now on "classic looking PAMs", now is probably a good time to hoover up some watches and wait 5-10 years for the value to go up (aggressively)...

...if that even matters.

Cheers all & just sayin'!

.R

[JorgeCCW]

There is a market for Panerai, so not concern that they are in any danger. But it’s also true that it’s not the watch you buy motivated for retention value, 95% of Panerai watches don’t do well on that department. But that means that the market for Panerai is not driven by flippers or alike but rather for true passion for their watches. And I think that’s great !


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[Mystro]

Panerai is now back to a enthusiast brand. Thank God. Rolex can keep all their commodity speculators. I am from the mind set these are luxury watches you should easily be able to afford and wear and enjoy. Worrying about resale is a mute point if you really can afford the watch in its proper luxury purchase context. I watched the Rolex demographic changed the brand significantly to the worse as soon as price became the main talking point. Then worrying about hairline scratches soon followed. Then the "is it safe".... Its obviously these are not folks that can comfortable wear a luxury watch so why all the stress and concern if they truly can afford such a opulent purchase?????

[Thanos]

Its so funny. I see way more Panerai's on the wrists of 'famous' people than I do Rolex.

The 'demise' of Panerai is 'fake news'

[Thanos]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Panerai is now back to a enthusiast brand. Thank God. Rolex can keep all their commodity speculators. I am from the mind set these are luxury watches you should easily be able to afford and wear and enjoy. Worrying about resale is a mute point if you really can afford the watch in its proper luxury purchase context. I watched the Rolex demographic changed the brand significantly to the worse as soon as price became the main talking point. Then worrying about hairline scratches soon followed. Then the "is it safe".... Its obviously these are not folks that can comfortable wear a luxury watch so why all the stress and concern if they truly can afford such a opulent purchase?????

Well said.

[Razhuul]

Although I agree with all the previous posts, it's not really the point I was trying to make.

The point I was trying to make, is that there seems to be a general sentiment in the watch community that if you "make a mistake", for example by trying to go broad, that there's no way you can correct it, and your fate is now set in stone forever, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

[Razhuul]

Originally Posted by Thanos

Its so funny. I see way more Panerai's on the wrists of 'famous' people than I do Rolex.

The 'demise' of Panerai is 'fake news'

Yeah this was kind of my point. In that the attraction of an iconic design is clearly there. Sure, maybe the brand is a bit identity confused right now, but that doesn't mean that they won't come out the other side stronger and wiser :).

[yachty 1]

Panerai is back on the uprise, I believe them and A lange showed growth last year for Richmont. They are actually marketing the brand very well and investing in many new boutiques. So they must be heading in the right direction.

[dnpina]

IDK. What has killed Panerai for me is the proliferation of non genuine pieces. Also seeing online the failure of some of the composite cases and the frustration of those owners. That makes me trust less all the new materials they put out: BMG, carbotech, fibratech, etc. I've owned 3 Pams and am left with just my 560 Q. I hope they bounce back to prominence.

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[3 Putt]

I own six Rolex, two PP, Omega, Tudor and several other brands. And even though I have 7.25 inch wrists, I never liked the thick and large Panerai cases. We all don't look like Stallone and Schwarzenegger.

When the DUE line was released, I was hooked and bought a 676. In house movement, sandwich dial and transparent case back. Everything I wanted in a Panerai. And it is 42mm and slender.

Panerai enthusiasts generally do not like the DUE line. I couldn't care less. I love the watch and proudly wear it. It did its job and brought me to the Panerai family...and I have been "collecting" for more than 20 years.

Panerai never lost its way. It has experimented. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Not all watches need a million meter depth rating. All great businesses take calculated risks and learn. No different for Panerai.

[arnage]

I also collect a broad spectrum of watches; I bought a 676 too, and I really do enjoy wearing it. It's a pity they brought the line away from sapphire casebacks; most of the Dues are closed back now.

I think the design element of Panerai is around to stay, regardless of their proliferation of size and material variance.

[eonflux]

I previously had a 275 and a 682 (display back).
Love the distinctive Panerai cases and clean dial designs.

And the feature set of the 275 and current 317 though those are very atypical and nontraditional for PAMs.

I like Panerai's continual push for new case materials and movements.
Who knows where they'll be in 10, 20 years.
But at least their distinctive designs will set them apart in the market.

Love how each piece here are so different from the others.

[waterman1]

I have collected many different brands of divers through the years and been fortunate enough to have had some of the best. Panerai to me is in the top tier. I've had the 243, 682, 616, 25, and 979. My go-to is the 979 and this does not come off the wrist. It may not be everyone's cup of tea (carbotech), but I can tell you this is one tough material and super comfortable, and keeps in line in with Panerai heritage albeit in a new highly practical material. Progress.

[Hank]

I will always try to keep one Panerai in my collection. There is nothing else like it.



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[emtee]

That’s the great thing about Panerai. There is nothing else like it. That signature Luminor design is all theirs. You can tell it’s a Panerai from a hundred paces whereas with other brands if it weren’t for the name on the dial it could be anything (there a some exceptions of course)

[1William]

I am a huge Panerai fan and have been with the brand since the early 2000's. I have owned 30-40 watches over that time and have had as many as 5-7 in the collection at one time. I have studied the brand and have a fair working knowledge of the history. Panerai was a marketing genius and they have presented products over the years that play to masculine owners and fans of the unique. It is all hype and if you do the research Panerai is a marketing wonder not a watch making wonder. The brand is dead as we knew it and what has replaced it is a mess. Where do you start, cases and materials, prices, SE and LE watches reproduced the next year or so killing the values of the watches. Panerai, not Rolex or PP, brought the hype to watches at Boutiques and drove prices on the secondary market with the lack of availability. With all that said I still like the brand and currently own a 1389 and a boatload of straps. But I am not impressed with the direction of the company and if it did not have Richemont as an owner they would have been done long ago. Will the brand rise again, I doubt it, and that may be the point.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by eonflux

I previously had a 275 and a 682 (display back).
Love the distinctive Panerai cases and clean dial designs.

And the feature set of the 275 and current 317 though those are very atypical and nontraditional for PAMs.

I like Panerai's continual push for new case materials and movements.
Who knows where they'll be in 10, 20 years.
But at least their distinctive designs will set them apart in the market.

Love how each piece here are so different from the others.

I have the 682 display back also and love it. The 42mm fits me perfectly IMHO. I have 3 straps for it also. Black, blue and white. Only thing I don’t like about this piece is I wish they put the Panerai label at the top of the dial. It really does bother me. I don’t understand why any brand would do that. I don’t like it when the brand name is any place other than the top of the dial.

I don’t think this brand is going anywhere but up. As someone said I see more celebrities wearing it then they see them wearing Rolex. Perhaps if they concentrated more on smaller cases like 42 mm that would help them sell more. Not everyone has an 8” wrist.

[KBM]

Originally Posted by eonflux

I previously had a 275 and a 682 (display back).
Love the distinctive Panerai cases and clean dial designs.

And the feature set of the 275 and current 317 though those are very atypical and nontraditional for PAMs.

I like Panerai's continual push for new case materials and movements.
Who knows where they'll be in 10, 20 years.
But at least their distinctive designs will set them apart in the market.

Love how each piece here are so different from the others.

That is a badass trio of divers.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by eonflux

I previously had a 275 and a 682 (display back).

Love the distinctive Panerai cases and clean dial designs.



And the feature set of the 275 and current 317 though those are very atypical and nontraditional for PAMs.



I like Panerai's continual push for new case materials and movements.

Who knows where they'll be in 10, 20 years.

But at least their distinctive designs will set them apart in the market.



Love how each piece here are so different from the others.

Originally Posted by kauebm

That is a badass trio of divers.

Yes it really is - an awesome set in its own right.

How is the AP comparing so far ?

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by Thanos

Its so funny. I see way more Panerai's on the wrists of 'famous' people than I do Rolex.

The 'demise' of Panerai is 'fake news'

Agree 100%.

That’s why I sold all of my Rolexes and couldn’t be happier.

My physicians all wear PAMs, executives and engineers all over Silicon Valley where PAMs.

Panerai is an amazing brand and I keep buying them with zero hesitation.

They’re also a joy to wear. I don’t worry about scratches and other superficial obsessions that I felt when owning Rolexes.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

Agree 100%.

That’s why I sold all of my Rolexes and couldn’t be happier.

My physicians all wear PAMs, executives and engineers all over Silicon Valley where PAMs.

Panerai is an amazing brand and I keep buying them with zero hesitation.

They’re also a joy to wear. I don’t worry about scratches and other superficial obsessions that I felt when owning Rolexes.

Panerai has become noticeably more popular in the bay area in the past 5 years or so.

Now see them almost as often as Rolex's.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by Burlington

Yes it really is - an awesome set in its own right.

How is the AP comparing so far ?

The AP is so much nicer than the other 2, and also nicer than my Subc and GMTc.

The dial, case, and movement of the Diver are notably nicer than my other watches. When I had a forged carbon 44mm, the ceramic bezel was spectacular, but I didn't have a case with AP's exquisite workmanship to admire.

I got the Diver to be a daily wear, but it's almost too nice to be one. Can't imagine trying to daily drive a 15500 or 15202, much less a 15407.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I have the 682 display back also and love it. The 42mm fits me perfectly IMHO. I have 3 straps for it also. Black, blue and white. Only thing I don’t like about this piece is I wish they put the Panerai label at the top of the dial. It really does bother me. I don’t understand why any brand would do that. I don’t like it when the brand name is any place other than the top of the dial.

I don’t think this brand is going anywhere but up. As someone said I see more celebrities wearing it then they see them wearing Rolex. Perhaps if they concentrated more on smaller cases like 42 mm that would help them sell more. Not everyone has an 8” wrist.

I completely understand about the brand name at the top of the dial.

That's one of the things I disliked about my previous IWC Timezoner Chronograph.



I understand not having space at the top of the dial for "IWC", but there's space elsewhere so that it didn't have be at the bottom crammed into the lower subdial. I'd be OK with on the sides of dial, as has been done on numerous IWC's including a 3706 I used to have.

One of the few Patek's I've considered is the 5990, but really dislike the company name in the lower subdial, especially since the upper subdial has just as much space for those words.

[enjoythemusic]

Many things well said on this thread. I like the classic-meets-tech as much as the 'true' classics. Am also sooooo glad there's more case choices than just SS and PM. Customer service has been exceptional as well, and look fwd to the 1118 with 70(!) year warranty.

I've done / doing the Rollie, and before that, the PP thing. It's about having fun and enjoying your time imho. Does it make you smile, and perhaps brings back great memories of.....

[climblaw25]

The timing of this thread is spot on for me. I’m currently looking into a preowned Pam 024, or 1024. Haven’t decided yet.

I own numerous Rolexes but have never gotten into Panerais — until now. I feel like Panerai has a ton to offer in the sports watch genre- and I just wish they would get back to their roots of 44mm, rugged sports watches. The larger sizes (47mm) and “innovative” materials at steep price premiums are just weird, and that’s just my opinion — not trying insult anyone.

I think the preowned market from the 2000’s offers a ton of great value and the look that I’m after. Rolex is just getting the over the top with their pricing and availability.

I also really like the modern Tudor mine which I feel offers a similar panerai aesthetic and style, while being fairly priced and available.


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[HL65]

Actually Panerai roots and DNA are 47mm watches not 44mm. Lots of Paneristi or enthusiasts size of choice will always be 47mm sticking with historic proportions and cases as in 1930’s, 1940’s and 1950’s. They have done a great job expanding beyond that over the years so plenty of options out there. Also, in this current sports watch environment they are a really good value.

[eonflux]

Originally Posted by HL65

Actually Panerai roots and DNA are 47mm watches not 44mm. Lots of Paneristi or enthusiasts size of choice will always be 47mm sticking with historic proportions and cases as in 1930’s, 1940’s and 1950’s. They have done a great job expanding beyond that over the years so plenty of options out there. Also, in this current sports watch environment they are a really good value.

Wish I could pull off a 47mm.

I think the 422 is their best looking watch.
Love the dial layout, perfect positioning of the second subdial, hour hand a little wider than the minute hand, power reserve on the back, movement fills the case, domed crystal, etc.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by HL65

Actually Panerai roots and DNA are 47mm watches not 44mm. Lots of Paneristi or enthusiasts size of choice will always be 47mm sticking with historic proportions and cases as in 1930’s, 1940’s and 1950’s. They have done a great job expanding beyond that over the years so plenty of options out there. Also, in this current sports watch environment they are a really good value.

Well said Ken

OP, when I started researching the brand, I wanted to find a modern interpretation with classic features...I landed here



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[climblaw25]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Well said Ken

OP, when I started researching the brand, I wanted to find a modern interpretation with classic features...I landed here



Attachment 1171394

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That Pam 690 is SWEET


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[zion_rasta]

I have 8 Rolex left in my collection. And I am embarrassed to wear them.

I have 4 panerai and love to wear them