The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Other (non-Rolex) Watch Topics > Seiko Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29 October 2019, 02:46 AM   #31
bearxj86
2020 Pledge Member
 
bearxj86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Watch: 3970
Posts: 2,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jostack View Post
I don’t know if there is a way to really qualify some of your metrics. Much of Rolex’ reputation is well earned and deserved. Much of it also comes from possibly the best marketing machine ever. That machine causes the masses to perpetuate their well earned reputation.

GS’s army of fanboys is much much smaller than Rolex. The composition of the army is different as well. GS fans more often are genuine watch fans. Rolex has a vast number of customers who purchase on name only and don’t really care what is inside the watch.

There are no reliability/durability tests that can be used to objectively compare the brands. This leaves it mostly to opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agree on many of your points. The one thing i would say is this: There are so many stories of Rolexes going through wars, mud, accidents intact. We know some of their movements are military grade. We know the Daytona movement was up against the Moonwatch for the NASA space program. We know they don't survive plane crashes (thanks to 9/11) very well and they don't survives house fires completely intact. Yes, no one has really done controlled tests of one versus the other, but with millions of rolexes out there, I think the data suggests that Rolexes are very durable as opposed to them being more durable than GS. It is hard to prove a negative here since GS is as yet "untested" in world of use cases and public opinion.

Moreso, most GS are not "dive watches" so its hard to imagine how much damage my 211 snowflake will take versus a James Cameron Deepsea. I can tell you that my money is on the deepsea :)

Maybe one day some smart ass would put them on robots and smash them against each other in a battle royale duel to the death.

Opinions based on experience count but to a less extent than a scientific study don't they? Just saying.
__________________
Instagram: @watchyogabballchess
bearxj86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 02:50 AM   #32
DoctorA
"TRF" Member
 
DoctorA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 5,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu View Post
Why collect a Seiko/Grand Seiko... because the brand is a very unique entity/manufacturer with a very rabid following and seiko has a different design ethstetic that is based in the Japanese design ideology.

State of the art fully regulated quartz, proprietary electro-mechanical 'Spring Drive', beautifully finished display cased '9s' 28.8 bpm automatics and a really wonderful hi-beat... there are many to choose from at relatively affordable pricing.

And then there is the finishing... all hand built/assembled and all hand finished to an extremely high level.

Expect some depreciation unless you buy used... and I attribute that to the fact they they make to many offerings (not to many watches).

The three eight seven is a very nice choice if you can live with titainium... and these spring drive Ti's are VERY lite. That model comes on the market more often than the 500 pieces would suggest, but those who list them are steadfast in what they want for them.

The best deal in Grand Seiko for me personally is the SBGM231... this gmt complicated 9s movement automatic in stainless steel is absooutely stunning in person and mine ran an extremely accurate +1day until the day I sold it. It's got a great cream dial with hand finished applied indices and a heat blued gmt hand... stunning for about 3.5k otd.



That GMT is an absolute stunner!! Unfortunately it looked tiny on my 7.6” wrist
__________________
Wear the watch you like, not the one they tell you to wear!
DoctorA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 02:53 AM   #33
Jostack
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearxj86 View Post
Agree on many of your points. The one thing i would say is this: There are so many stories of Rolexes going through wars, mud, accidents. We know some of their movements are military grade. We know they don't survive plane crashes (thanks to 9/11) very well and they don't survives house fires completely intact. Yes, no one has really done controlled tests of one versus the other, but with millions of rolexes out there, I think the data suggests that Rolexes are very durable as opposed to them being more durable than GS.

Moreso, most GS are not "dive watches" so its hard to imagine how much damage my 211 snowflake will take versus a James Cameron Deepsea. I can tell you that my money is on the deepsea :)

Opinions based on experience count don't they?


Absolutely, experience counts. The sheer volume of Rolex experience reinforces their reputation. I wholeheartedly agree.

That doesn’t mean a GS can’t take a good beating. There just aren’t the numbers like Rolex to justify that kind of reputation. I’m not saying GS is equal to the task, only that there is a lack of evidence. Likewise I don’t see evidence to the contrary. I’m fine with stamping that one with a big fat question mark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jostack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 02:59 AM   #34
bearxj86
2020 Pledge Member
 
bearxj86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Watch: 3970
Posts: 2,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jostack View Post
Absolutely, experience counts. The sheer volume of Rolex experience reinforces their reputation. I wholeheartedly agree.

That doesn’t mean a GS can’t take a good beating. There just aren’t the numbers like Rolex to justify that kind of reputation. I’m not saying GS is equal to the task, only that there is a lack of evidence. Likewise I don’t see evidence to the contrary. I’m fine with stamping that one with a big fat question mark.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fair enough. Here’s my newest acquisition. Unfortunately or fortunately it’s not going anywhere near mud, war, fires or plane crashes (knock on wood) anytime soon so jury still out for me :)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Instagram: @watchyogabballchess
bearxj86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 03:03 AM   #35
Jostack
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 328
And my latest in the sun.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jostack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 03:55 AM   #36
cmhorner17
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 13
A Grand Seiko is something you have to see in person. Pictures will never do the build quality justice. They're amazing even if pictures online make them appear a bit plain. Other cool thing IMO is you won't see yourself coming and going. Try a few on, see if any of them spin your propeller. And I agree with availability too - no games with a GS. They're not common but they're not impossible to find once you've settled on one.
cmhorner17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 05:48 AM   #37
Ks6pd
2020 Pledge Member
 
Ks6pd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Real Name: Steve
Location: SF Bay, CA
Watch: es..More Watches!
Posts: 2,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearxj86 View Post
Maybe one day some smart ass would put them on robots and smash them against each other in a battle royale duel to the death.
Well, when I win the lotto, challenge accepted lol

Last edited by Ks6pd; 29 October 2019 at 05:50 AM.. Reason: auto erect
Ks6pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 06:32 AM   #38
Jostack
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
That GMT is an absolute stunner!! Unfortunately it looked tiny on my 7.6” wrist


Then there are the new quartz GMT’s that some mockingly declare is an Explorer copy. There are absolutely similarities, but the sparkle and shine from the dial indexes and hands make an Explorer look boring in comparison.

Jostack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 07:23 AM   #39
MSchu
"TRF" Member
 
MSchu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Real Name: Schumacher
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 659
I'd own that if it wasn't for the yellow... that is the top of the line quartz regulated movement there...
MSchu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 10:41 AM   #40
pickettt
2020 Pledge Member
 
pickettt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 3,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu View Post
I'd own that if it wasn't for the yellow... that is the top of the line quartz regulated movement there...
They come in 2 other colors
pickettt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 12:26 PM   #41
Hosum
2020 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NYC
Watch: GS SBGA387
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
They come in 2 other colors
the others don't have the +/-5 second star :(
Hosum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 07:35 PM   #42
Jostack
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosum View Post
the others don't have the +/-5 second star :(


Is it the star you prefer, or the accuracy it represents? Or both?

GS tends to be pretty conservative with the spec on their quartz movements.
Jostack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 October 2019, 11:41 PM   #43
MSchu
"TRF" Member
 
MSchu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Real Name: Schumacher
Location: Las vegas
Posts: 659
Accuracy... for me
All black dial and fire blued gmt hand is in order
MSchu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2019, 12:58 PM   #44
Hosum
2020 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NYC
Watch: GS SBGA387
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jostack View Post
Is it the star you prefer, or the accuracy it represents? Or both?

GS tends to be pretty conservative with the spec on their quartz movements.
I'd say the accuracy that it represents. If they didn't have the star, but had a different caliber movement called 9F86S instead of 9F86, I'd still prefer the extra incremental inching toward perfection from 10 seconds a year to 5 seconds a year.
Hosum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2019, 01:46 PM   #45
pickettt
2020 Pledge Member
 
pickettt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 3,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jostack View Post
Is it the star you prefer, or the accuracy it represents? Or both?

GS tends to be pretty conservative with the spec on their quartz movements.
Underpromise and overdeliver...that's what they do.
pickettt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11 November 2019, 03:41 PM   #46
chloebear
2020 Pledge Member
 
chloebear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Real Name: Mike
Location: USA
Watch: Explorer II
Posts: 2,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu View Post
Why collect a Seiko/Grand Seiko... because the brand is a very unique entity/manufacturer with a very rabid following and seiko has a different design ethstetic that is based in the Japanese design ideology.

State of the art fully regulated quartz, proprietary electro-mechanical 'Spring Drive', beautifully finished display cased '9s' 28.8 bpm automatics and a really wonderful hi-beat... there are many to choose from at relatively affordable pricing.

And then there is the finishing... all hand built/assembled and all hand finished to an extremely high level.

Expect some depreciation unless you buy used... and I attribute that to the fact they they make to many offerings (not to many watches).

The three eight seven is a very nice choice if you can live with titainium... and these spring drive Ti's are VERY lite. That model comes on the market more often than the 500 pieces would suggest, but those who list them are steadfast in what they want for them.

The best deal in Grand Seiko for me personally is the SBGM231... this gmt complicated 9s movement automatic in stainless steel is absooutely stunning in person and mine ran an extremely accurate +1day until the day I sold it. It's got a great cream dial with hand finished applied indices and a heat blued gmt hand... stunning for about 3.5k otd.




Two of my favorite watches right there. I am wearing my Air-King as I type and the GS SBGM231 is high on list of a dressy watch. Great pictures. Thanks for sharing.
chloebear is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2019, 01:15 PM   #47
britabroad
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: South Carolina
Watch: Omega Planet Ocean
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jostack View Post
Then there are the new quartz GMT’s that some mockingly declare is an Explorer copy. There are absolutely similarities, but the sparkle and shine from the dial indexes and hands make an Explorer look boring in comparison.

I absolutely love this model.

My only concern which might be due to lack of knowledge is Ive heard that they only promise to keep parts for a limited period of time? If you want to hand down the piece I wouldn't be buying GS
britabroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2019, 07:45 PM   #48
Erson
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: jakarta
Posts: 225
Problem is, even AUDEMARS PIGUET swiss made, IWC perpetual calendar swiss made, the movement easily stop.

how many times the price compare to seiko and its still working?

OF COURSE SEIKO IS WORTH FOR MONEY.

It cost me $3000+ dollars to repair the AP DIVER CARBON. It makes me sick. Its not my fault. The AP said, yeah there is a movement problem.

I believe made in japan is good, because japan always make trustable product. and for me the quality of GS even better than rolex. But rolex still win because the design is better, more popular and the brand is swiss made.

Your choice of GS is cool
Erson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 November 2019, 03:15 AM   #49
daveo5
2020 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Las Vegas NV
Watch: 14060M COSC
Posts: 866
Well I try to balance my collection based on what I like. It includes PP, AP, Rolex, Omega’s, Seiko, JLC, Breitling, IWC, Piaget, Times.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
daveo5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 November 2019, 11:26 PM   #50
efthi
"TRF" Member
 
efthi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Qatar
Watch: 16610LV
Posts: 322
That’s an excellent thread! I am on the edge of getting the SBGA211 at a very good discount since the boutique just opened here.. I have 4 Rolex and an Omega which I like them all too much (Kermit, Batman, Hulk, DaytonaC and a PO Limited edition Liquidmetal).. it’s a different watch from what I am used so far but I like the history of the maker and the watch itself, have to decide by end of the month if I take the call or not!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
efthi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 November 2019, 11:46 PM   #51
Jostack
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Ohio
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by britabroad View Post
I absolutely love this model.



My only concern which might be due to lack of knowledge is Ive heard that they only promise to keep parts for a limited period of time? If you want to hand down the piece I wouldn't be buying GS


Where did you here this?

As far as I understand, their policy on parts are not much different than other luxury watch companies.

I’m pretty sure there are plenty of vintage grand seiko’s out there ticking away, and have been serviced somehow. You may even see them here on the forums.

A lot of people say a lot of things.
Jostack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 November 2019, 11:48 PM   #52
PJ S
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 3,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by efthi View Post

I am on the edge of getting the SBGA211 at a very good discount since the boutique just opened here.. I have 4 Rolex and an Omega which I like them all too much ...
Get on board – it’ll soon become another one you “like too much”.
Variety is the spice of life, after all!
PJ S is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30 November 2019, 12:09 AM   #53
1William
2020 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Watch: Rolex/Others
Posts: 23,280
Great looking watch. You will not be disappointed in GS.
1William is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 December 2019, 05:45 AM   #54
efthi
"TRF" Member
 
efthi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Qatar
Watch: 16610LV
Posts: 322
Got it already last Thursday and today itself went back and got this amazing diver as well! Very happy with Seiko and GS of course!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
efthi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2019, 02:33 PM   #55
Kliminator
"TRF" Member
 
Kliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: West Coast
Posts: 1,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.



Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions



1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?

2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?

3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?

4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?



I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me

Thank you!


Did you end up picking up a GS or still exploring? I've been toying around with the idea as well.

I've been interested in peacock in the past but it seemed to be pretty thick at 14.4mm.

The news seasons collection is interesting.
Kliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2019, 02:54 PM   #56
Hosum
2020 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NYC
Watch: GS SBGA387
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by efthi View Post
Got it already last Thursday and today itself went back and got this amazing diver as well! Very happy with Seiko and GS of course!
Congrats on your back-to-back acquisitions! After I got my first GS, the GS bug bit me hard and I couldn't stop getting more...
Hosum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2019, 05:11 PM   #57
efthi
"TRF" Member
 
efthi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Qatar
Watch: 16610LV
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosum View Post
Congrats on your back-to-back acquisitions! After I got my first GS, the GS bug bit me hard and I couldn't stop getting more...
Thank you very much


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
efthi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 December 2019, 11:48 PM   #58
DoctorA
"TRF" Member
 
DoctorA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 5,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by efthi View Post
Thank you very much


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I actually caught the seiko mania!!
Loving my LE sbga387, the best GS I could’ve bought and really liking my new seikos
The value in seiko is unbelievable for the quality you get!!
__________________
Wear the watch you like, not the one they tell you to wear!
DoctorA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 December 2019, 12:13 AM   #59
efthi
"TRF" Member
 
efthi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Qatar
Watch: 16610LV
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
I actually caught the seiko mania!!

Loving my LE sbga387, the best GS I could’ve bought and really liking my new seikos

The value in seiko is unbelievable for the quality you get!!
Beautiful collection, love them all
Need to get me a Presage as well.. for now jaw dropping GS



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
efthi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 December 2019, 11:07 AM   #60
asiparks
"TRF" Member
 
asiparks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: out in Asia
Watch: ing the Detectives
Posts: 995
wow !! amazing detail shots !
__________________
Eagels may soar, but weasels are seldom sucked into jet engines...
Insta:-asiparks
asiparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2019, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.