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Old 1 July 2020, 09:12 AM   #1
thatdarnnewguy
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Icon14 Help identifying components of this vintage GMT Master please!

Hope this is the correct forum, if not I apologize. Long story short, a friend is trying to unload his 65 GMT Master, his dad has owned this watch for years, and has been in the family for 30. I can't tell if this bezel matches the serial, which starts with 133.

I am wondering if this looks like a matching face/bezel etc.

thank you.
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Old 1 July 2020, 10:30 PM   #2
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No. All service parts.
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Old 1 July 2020, 11:10 PM   #3
Vincent65
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A 1965 1675 GMT-Master should have a gilt dial
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Old 2 July 2020, 12:43 AM   #4
thatdarnnewguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lupus66 View Post
No. All service parts.
What if it was a 66? Can I ask what exactly stands out?

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Originally Posted by Vincent65 View Post
A 1965 1675 GMT-Master should have a gilt dial
If it was a 66 does it look correct? This old fella swears he is the original owner and it was only at an authorized rolex dealer for a service in the 70's.

Thank you both for the input, appreciate it. He wants 8k.
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Old 2 July 2020, 01:18 AM   #5
Tools
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I would put that serial in the 66 range. The case back on this one should have a stamp inside to confirm.

Nothing wrong with it. It has been taken care of and proper replacements made when needed.
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Old 2 July 2020, 01:35 AM   #6
thatdarnnewguy
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I would put that serial in the 66 range. The case back on this one should have a stamp inside to confirm.

Nothing wrong with it. It has been taken care of and proper replacements made when needed.
Hi thanks, just had the serial confirmed it is a 1966 so you are correct. I want to purchase it, just was worried the face and bezel don't match the year. When I try to research online I get such a mismatch of parts, I can't tell what to look for to see if this is how a 1966 should appear.

I'm trying to replace my fathers lost 1966 GMT, and sadly he can't remember the way it looked exactly either, he's pretty old now lol.

Long story short, if this looks like a 1966 with matching components, I'll buy it for him :)
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Old 2 July 2020, 02:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by thatdarnnewguy View Post
Hi thanks, just had the serial confirmed it is a 1966 so you are correct. I want to purchase it, just was worried the face and bezel don't match the year. When I try to research online I get such a mismatch of parts, I can't tell what to look for to see if this is how a 1966 should appear.

I'm trying to replace my fathers lost 1966 GMT, and sadly he can't remember the way it looked exactly either, he's pretty old now lol.

Long story short, if this looks like a 1966 with matching components, I'll buy it for him :)
This is not how a 1.3 million serial number GMT would normally look. Your worries that the "face and bezel don't match the year" seem to be correct. Although a 1.3 million serial number would more than likely have a 1966 case back, I have never seen nor heard of a GMT 1675 with the Mark I white-lettered dial in a watch within the 1.3 million serial number range. 1.3 million serial numbers are clearly within the range of the last variation of the gilt dials. Also, the large 24-hour hand is not correct based on the 1.3 million serial number. 1.3 million serial numbers should have the smaller 24-hour hand.

Your concern about the bezel insert is also correct. This is not a period correct bezel insert for this watch - it appears to be a service bezel insert (an insert that was replaced by a dealer or the Rolex Service Center during a service.)

My opinion would be that there are two possibilities for the discrepancies with this watch.

At some point, the dial, hands and bezel insert were changed out with the original gilt dial, small 24-hour hand or hand set and bezel insert. Many of the GMTs from the gilt dial era have had their dials, hands and bezel inserts changed at some point during the past 60 years.

The only other option, which is purely my speculation, would be that this GMT case was an unused factory carry-over from the gilt dial era and was never used immediately during the production years but found and later used during the late 1960s. If this did occur, there would be no way of knowing for sure and personally, it would be a "watch with a story" which for me is not anything that I would care to explain to someone nor anything that I could prove.
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Old 2 July 2020, 02:55 AM   #8
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This is not how a 1.3 million serial number GMT would normally look. Your worries that the "face and bezel don't match the year" seem to be correct. Although a 1.3 million serial number would more than likely have a 1966 case back, I have never seen nor heard of a GMT 1675 with the Mark I white-lettered dial in a watch within the 1.3 million serial number range. 1.3 million serial numbers are clearly within the range of the last variation of the gilt dials. Also, the large 24-hour hand is not correct based on the 1.3 million serial number. 1.3 million serial numbers should have the smaller 24-hour hand.

Your concern about the bezel insert is also correct. This is not a period correct bezel insert for this watch.

My opinion would be that there are two possibilities for the discrepancies with this watch.

At some point, the dial, hands and bezel insert were changed out with the original gilt dial, small 24-hour hand or hand set and bezel insert. Many of the GMTs from the gilt dial era have had their dials, hands and bezel inserts changed at some point during the past 60 years.

The only other option, which is purely my speculation, would be that this GMT case was an unused factory carry-over from the gilt dial era and was never used immediately during the production years but found and later used during the late 1960s. If this did occur, there would be no way of knowing for sure and personally, it would be a "watch with a story" which for me is not anything that I would try to understand or explain to someone.
Great insight and detail, thank you , really appreciate this. Now this old guy has really peaked my interest because he used to own the jewelry store this watch came from, and he is a retired rolex dealer/repair specialist.

Perhaps he just forgets what he may have done to this watch since 1966 :)
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Old 2 July 2020, 10:24 AM   #9
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Is it just me or maybe the angle of the pic ,but the lume plots seem too close to the minute markers ,look at the 1 o'clock & 2 o'clock lume plots there not touching the index markers as they should be,then look at the 10 o'clock & 11 o'clock lume plots & there buried in the index markers & the 6 0'clock plot looks way to close to the Swiss T for me ,is it a possible relume ?
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Old 2 July 2020, 11:18 AM   #10
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As has been suggested above, the parts are probably not original, but they are authentic Rolex replacements parts. Overall, the watch would be perfectly fine at the right price for someone who isn't too worried about collectibility. It has a nice vintage look. But the right price would be a SUBSTANTIAL discount compared to an all-original 1966 ref 1675. Like 50% or even more.
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Old 2 July 2020, 11:28 AM   #11
thatdarnnewguy
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As has been suggested above, the parts are probably not original, but they are authentic Rolex replacements parts. Overall, the watch would be perfectly fine at the right price for someone who isn't too worried about collectibility. It has a nice vintage look. But the right price would be a SUBSTANTIAL discount compared to an all-original 1966 ref 1675. Like 50% or even more.
Great points, sadly he is wanting prices that reflect authentic GMT's with original parts, so I'll pass. I can't seem to convince him it isn't original and I feel like he's taking this personally. Perhaps someone else will buy it, he won't take a discounted offer.

btw the way he wants 12k usd, I offered 9.
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Old 2 July 2020, 03:39 PM   #12
thatdarnnewguy
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Is it just me or maybe the angle of the pic ,but the lume plots seem too close to the minute markers ,look at the 1 o'clock & 2 o'clock lume plots there not touching the index markers as they should be,then look at the 10 o'clock & 11 o'clock lume plots & there buried in the index markers & the 6 0'clock plot looks way to close to the Swiss T for me ,is it a possible relume ?
good catch, that's beyond my pay-grade lol. I asked the old guy again, he's denying its anything but an original 66 and swears he can get the owner of the original jewelry shop to verify it. Ah well, this is fun if nothing else, learning lots about this watch.
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Old 2 July 2020, 04:48 PM   #13
Vincent65
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Originally Posted by thatdarnnewguy View Post
What if it was a 66? Can I ask what exactly stands out?



If it was a 66 does it look correct? This old fella swears he is the original owner and it was only at an authorized rolex dealer for a service in the 70's.

Thank you both for the input, appreciate it. He wants 8k.
I had a 1.4mil (c1966) gilt GMT.
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Old 3 July 2020, 01:42 AM   #14
thatdarnnewguy
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I had a 1.4mil (c1966) gilt GMT.
Thanks, it appears you are correct, should be gilt.
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Old 3 July 2020, 05:36 AM   #15
thatdarnnewguy
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I had a 1.4mil (c1966) gilt GMT.
thanks, how do the rest of the components look compared to your 66?
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Old 6 July 2020, 05:22 PM   #16
Vincent65
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thanks, how do the rest of the components look compared to your 66?
I believe the other visible components of your friend's watch have been covered already. Hard to be absolutely certain but it seems to suggest that the case and movement may be original (and bracelet?).
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