I'm definitely getting a 5522A, Wait a minute I'm not getting a 5522A?!?!?!?!

[incontrol]

So the cat is out of the bag. I know I will never buy anything from this AD. They do not even exist as far as I am concerned.


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[Tony64]

Originally Posted by incontrol

So the cat is out of the bag. I know I will never buy anything from this AD. They do not even exist as far as I am concerned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed.
I've bought from them in the past but, in the interest of fairness and solidarity, never again.

Just "unsubscribed" to their email updates. Unacceptable behavior may not change, but not to be patronized either.

[Tony64]

Hey govberg,

[jnelson3097]

Never mind that question, I already know the answer

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by incontrol

So the cat is out of the bag. I know I will never buy anything from this AD. They do not even exist as far as I am concerned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i know i wouldn't either. Not located near me anyway, but still.

I would consider trying on their watches though if ever in the area, and then telling them thanks for letting me try everything on, but I'm not buying here and this is why....

[KarlS]

My favourite but if naievety by TS:

But not only for the collectors. It has to be a split that is fair for everybody. So the task for our own agency here in New York would be first to dispatch to all the retailers. And then the retailers will have the task to allocate them. But I really hope that they will also allocate those pieces to somebody who is not a very big collector. It has to be also for someone who as I just said, who is young, who is going to start with Patek Philippe; we should also give him the chance to wear such a piece."

I think he should add but of course we need to make the AD's rich and they can give it to any customer they really want as long as they buy a few 5960's or 5167R etc as we can't give them away!!!! Alternatively some Jewellery would be good....sadly those that are young to the brand won't qualify at any AD so maybe they can buy on the secondary market from the very people who should never have gotten an allocation!!!

Don't worry Mike they must have gotten over 50 of tgecwatches so you really stink in their eyes!!

At least the Brits were kind and shared their exhibition with you!

[red1108nyc]

Mike,

I am sorry you had to go through this. Poor form and just plain disgusting it is. I hope you find a better AD with more honesty and integrity.

[vipereaper30]

That's terrible to hear Mike. Especially from such a good customer to boot. They are obviously trying to squeeze a bit more profit/sales out of the demand for the LE...relationships be damned.

I had the same experience from many different ADs as I was trying to source a 5524 and subsequently the 5522. It was quite the turnoff to those dealers and honestly was starting to affect my thoughts on becoming a Patek collector. I can't imagine Patek Philippe condones the behavior, but with so many suppliers succumbing to greed what can be done to prevent this kind of thing from continuing to happen?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by KarlS

My favourite but if naievety by TS:

But not only for the collectors. It has to be a split that is fair for everybody. So the task for our own agency here in New York would be first to dispatch to all the retailers. And then the retailers will have the task to allocate them. But I really hope that they will also allocate those pieces to somebody who is not a very big collector. It has to be also for someone who as I just said, who is young, who is going to start with Patek Philippe; we should also give him the chance to wear such a piece."

I think he should add but of course we need to make the AD's rich and they can give it to any customer they really want as long as they buy a few 5960's or 5167R etc as we can't give them away!!!! Alternatively some Jewellery would be good....sadly those that are young to the brand won't qualify at any AD so maybe they can buy on the secondary market from the very people who should never have gotten an allocation!!!

Don't worry Mike they must have gotten over 50 of tgecwatches so you really stink in their eyes!!

At least the Brits were kind and shared their exhibition with you!

Im honestly asking as i don't know. When specifically did Patek's watches shift from being a hobby or collection and move to being a commodity for profit generation by flipping? I know resale has always been strong but it was usually in the context of older pieces. So when did this shift happen to buying and immediately reselling and AD's making purchases conditional on other purchases?

[tng11]

Originally Posted by vipereaper30

That's terrible to hear Mike. Especially from such a good customer to boot. They are obviously trying to squeeze a bit more profit/sales out of the demand for the LE...relationships be damned.

I had the same experience from many different ADs as I was trying to source a 5524 and subsequently the 5522. It was quite the turnoff to those dealers and honestly was starting to affect my thoughts on becoming a Patek collector. I can't imagine Patek Philippe condones the behavior, but with so many suppliers succumbing to greed what can be done to prevent this kind of thing from continuing to happen?

I can only imagine how many would-be collectors would be turned off by this kind of behaviour/games being played by ADs. Even in the age of the internet - I don't think that many are too comfortable dealing over the internet, for valid reasons. In my neck of the woods there is only one Patek AD. If you don't look the part - you are not getting the time of day, the staff and owner will just ignore you. They have nothing on display and keep all their inventory double sealed in the vault, and only bring out what they want you to see. No trying before buying. Don't even ask about getting a Nautilus or Aquanaut - you'll just get a rude retort that they're all reserved for big fish and people who buy lots of jewellery from them. Oh, and if you even have the gall to ask for the discount? Again, you'll basically be told to get out of the store, as the owner will say he can sell the watch many times over at list price.

With an holier-than-thou and pretentious attitude like that, it's no wonder lots of people in my age group getting into watches are completely turned off by PP. I can only imagine the number of people who get interested in PP, step into an AD and basically get laughed out when they ask about a Nautilus or Aquanaut, or they discover they have to make some crazy purchase before being allowed to buy the entry-level PP watch. Those are the customers who then go to brands like AP, Lange or JLC.

I only recently became a Patek Philippe owner through the power of trading with another collector. If buying new or from an AD was one of my requirements, I would have already quit in frustration and vowed myself never to buy a PP. And maybe that's part of the strategy - to keep it exclusive, you will have to tick off some customers at the end of the day.

[vipereaper30]

Originally Posted by dmash

Not a Patek, however still a very respectable piece in that tier. Glashütte Original actually has some pretty nice finishing on a lot of models IMO:

That's actually a very fine option although it is missing applied numerals. It does contain a hacking movement and all those who find the 5522 "hideous" might prefer the movement to case proportions favorable on the GO (32.3/40 vs 27/42).

[RHJ]

This is extorsion using PP as handle to sell other jewelry. I would write an open letter to PP with full names! WTF!

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[brandrea]

Pretty amazing to read Mike. You're handling it very well, and for your sake the best thing to do is to move on and let it go.

Good luck in finding another

[vipereaper30]

Originally Posted by tng11

I only recently became a Patek Philippe owner through the power of trading with another collector. If buying new or from an AD was one of my requirements, I would have already quit in frustration and vowed myself never to buy a PP. And maybe that's part of the strategy - to keep it exclusive, you will have to tick off some customers at the end of the day.

This is all so true, and ironically it is both new and established collectors affected by the dynamic. My persistence had nearly worn out when I finally found an AD who went out on a limb for me with this watch and has now earned my business for life. I fall into the category as described by TS (quote below) and understand there had to be trade-offs for overall allocations. Patek Philippe had some sort of split (90/10?) in mind but had to rely on ADs to a large extent. It seems at least some of those ADs went to the extreme to take advantage of their position for what might be a temporary boost to their bottom line, while alienating a lot of collectors across the board.

Like you said...maybe it really is just genius marketing. We all know everyone who knocks this watch is just insanely jealous. No one in their right mind can't see the 5522 as the Patek of all Pateks.

But seriously, I won't consider myself lucky until I find something even close to as nice as that 3940!

TS: "But I really hope that they will also allocate those pieces to somebody who is not a very big collector. It has to be also for someone who as I just said, who is young, who is going to start with Patek Philippe; we should also give him the chance to wear such a piece."

[jnelson3097]

For those who got a 5522, how many watches have you bought from your AD in the past 5 years or so?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by vipereaper30

TS: "But I really hope that they will also allocate those pieces to somebody who is not a very big collector. It has to be also for someone who as I just said, who is young, who is going to start with Patek Philippe; we should also give him the chance to wear such a piece."

Yeah, that's a joke. If you go into practically any Patek AD without wearing any watch and dressed normally, you'd get laughed at under your breath as if 'do they know the retail price?'. Good idea on paper TS but you've got ADs turning off collectors, how do you think they're going to treat 'normal 30 year old wanting his first watch and decided on Patek'.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by KarlS

My favourite but if naievety by TS:

But not only for the collectors. It has to be a split that is fair for everybody. So the task for our own agency here in New York would be first to dispatch to all the retailers. And then the retailers will have the task to allocate them. But I really hope that they will also allocate those pieces to somebody who is not a very big collector. It has to be also for someone who as I just said, who is young, who is going to start with Patek Philippe; we should also give him the chance to wear such a piece."

I think he should add but of course we need to make the AD's rich and they can give it to any customer they really want as long as they buy a few 5960's or 5167R etc as we can't give them away!!!! Alternatively some Jewellery would be good....sadly those that are young to the brand won't qualify at any AD so maybe they can buy on the secondary market from the very people who should never have gotten an allocation!!!

Don't worry Mike they must have gotten over 50 of tgecwatches so you really stink in their eyes!!

At least the Brits were kind and shared their exhibition with you!

TS at least did have honourable intentions but seems the ADs are intent on turning the brand into the Patel Phillips I keep reading about on other forums.

[goog53]

Thank you all so very much for your comments and support. It's amazing how these little machines on our wrists can bring each other together. The life long friends that I have made from this forum far outweigh any possible watch I could ever receive. I was sent many private messages from forum members who were not happy with their situation as well in trying to get this piece or have been treated negatively in some similar form or fashion. If I haven't got back to you on private message yet, Please know that I will try to today and I am sorry for the delay. Also, Thanks for the recommendations that were sent regarding trustworthy ADs. If you'd like to give your AD credit on this thread for a job well done, feel free to comment as this was not meant to be just a doom and gloom type of write up. I had mixed feelings about initially writing this thread because I didn't want to come off as some disgruntled crybaby who just didn't get his watch and would never consider myself some type of whistleblower, narc, or rat. I let this news sit with me for over two weeks and was hoping to hear from my direct contacts at the store that I have known for years with some type of explanation/apology but never did which is sad because once again I considered them friends. I realize ADs have many high dollar clients and I never claimed to be anywhere close to one but upon release of this piece if I was just told something to the affect that we'll do our best but it is a long shot we can get this for you, then that is something that I could certainly deal with. Initially I may not have liked that response had it been given to me but could respect the honesty and transparency. In this instance I was told you are definitely getting the piece and then later told oh and by the way we would like you to buy jewelry in addition. I know how business works and even tried to comply with their request in working with them in the form of another watch purchase that I truly didn't need and that was not good enough. In summary, This thread was not about a watch but more or less about how you should be honest, transparent, and direct when dealing with others. Once again a huge thanks to all the forum members for your participation and to the mods who uphold the integrity of this forum and allowed this thread to stay up.

Kind Regards,

Mike G

[KarlS]

But bad service at PP is not the norm. One of the strangest stories is when I was recently in USVI on St Thomas. I had never even spoken to the AD and when I walked in they addressed me by my first name and fantastic service. No I didn't have a name badge on!!! I was very tempted by 2 watches but prices were too far apart and they wouldn't move! In the early days I remember emailing Mallorys in Bath about a 5146. They flatly declined to discuss anything unless I presented myself to them in their shop. Never stepped foot in their shop in principle and I think I blow a fair amount on watches. So it's really the AD who are nothing more than order takets as most collectors know more about the watches than they do!

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by jnelson3097

For those who got a 5522, how many watches have you bought from your AD in the past 5 years or so?

Actually the 5522 was my first purchase from the AD but I did go to the exhibition and met with the AD while in NY. While I recognize each experience is unique the point seems to be about "dealing" honestly and transparently.

Shortly after receiving the 5522 I have paid in full for a second patek from the AD that is now on it's way and will be buying others as I have had such a positive experience. In other words, they have earned my business.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by jnelson3097

For those who got a 5522, how many watches have you bought from your AD in the past 5 years or so?

There is distinction that has to be made here.
I understand that for a sought after pieces the AD has top clients to keep happy and they have to say no to the little fish with little or no history purchase . Like a couple of days ago I asked an AD in Florida for a Jumbo ; I have history of just one purchase with this AD. The AD told me upfront not a chance , and I respect that and understand it. The problem is when they tell you that you are gonna get the piece , play with your emotions for months and at the last minute they try to exhort you with buying other stuff, totally unacceptable, I don’t care if you buy 1 or 10 watches from the AD nobody has the right to do so, period.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by jnelson3097

For those who got a 5522, how many watches have you bought from your AD in the past 5 years or so?

Not sure about the relevance as I think nobody is discussing whether Mike is worthy....but the fact that the AD appears to use "extortion"!!!!!

[vipereaper30]

Originally Posted by goog53

This thread was not about a watch but more or less about how you should be honest, transparent, and direct when dealing with others.

You've come across as quite level-headed despite the slight from your AD. And you kept your lips sealed in gentlemanly fashion even though the culprit looks to have been deduced.

The lesson above is a good one for all of us to remember and strive to adhere to, thanks!

[Tony64]

I think I know your AD. Did he look something like this...

[jnelson3097]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Not sure about the relevance as I think nobody is discussing whether Mike is worthy....but the fact that the AD appears to use "extortion"!!!!!

In no ways am I trying to question the worthiness of Mike in regards to the 5522, and if it came off that way, I apologize.

My only issue with this thread is that everyone seems to bash the AD for not treating a "loyal" customer the right way. What i have trouble with is the definition of loyal in regards to a customer. Am I loyal if I bought one watch from you in the last 5 or 6 years? Am I loyal if I come to your events but have never bought anything? It's easy for me to say that I've been a loyal customer to a local AD to my work that I drop by every once in awhile on lunch but the only thing I've ever paid for there is an appraisal for a watch purchased used from a private seller.

I know we can all argue about what we think is right and wrong and that's the joy of the forums. We're all not going to agree with everything posted and I'm sure most won't agree with my opinion on this. I know for a fact that even if I've purchased a dozen watches from an AD, there are several others who have purchased several more and spent thousands more than I have so I'll never have a chance at getting something like a 5522. For those that were able to purchase without a history like thomas, that's great and that AD should be commended.

For full disclaimer, because a simple search would reveal my preferred and only AD, I've been a customer of Govberg for almost 10 years now. I consider the family good friends so everyone can take what I post and think what you want.

[Calatrava r]

An update on the mentioned Chronos 24 watch for sale for 49K. There are now 3 more for sale. Prices are 65K, 75K and 80K. I guess I will not be getting one.

[martinr]

It isn't about loyalty jnelson3097, Mike was lied to and on top of that the AD tried to extort him for a needless and expensive jewelry purchase. That's all there is to it.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by jnelson3097

For full disclaimer, because a simple search would reveal my preferred and only AD, I've been a customer of Govberg for almost 10 years now. I consider the family good friends so everyone can take what I post and think what you want.

having a vested interest makes it hard to be objective. If it was a different AD you may think differently.

No one was bashing the AD based on how many watches it takes to qualify. It was about promising a watch, and then waiting for the secondary prices to be known, and then and only then adding additional conditions to the purchase. If the AD said this up front the OP could have made his choice if he wanted to proceed or not. Making the OP wait until it was too late to find a different AD and then adding conditions is what makes this particularly bad.

No purchase history or a huge purchase history, its still wrong.

[Watch Admirer]

Unfortunate, but they probably have customers they value more than you, don't let it get through your skin.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by jnelson3097

In no ways am I trying to question the worthiness of Mike in regards to the 5522, and if it came off that way, I apologize.

My only issue with this thread is that everyone seems to bash the AD for not treating a "loyal" customer the right way. What i have trouble with is the definition of loyal in regards to a customer. Am I loyal if I bought one watch from you in the last 5 or 6 years? Am I loyal if I come to your events but have never bought anything? It's easy for me to say that I've been a loyal customer to a local AD to my work that I drop by every once in awhile on lunch but the only thing I've ever paid for there is an appraisal for a watch purchased used from a private seller.

I know we can all argue about what we think is right and wrong and that's the joy of the forums. We're all not going to agree with everything posted and I'm sure most won't agree with my opinion on this. I know for a fact that even if I've purchased a dozen watches from an AD, there are several others who have purchased several more and spent thousands more than I have so I'll never have a chance at getting something like a 5522. For those that were able to purchase without a history like thomas, that's great and that AD should be commended.

For full disclaimer, because a simple search would reveal my preferred and only AD, I've been a customer of Govberg for almost 10 years now. I consider the family good friends so everyone can take what I post and think what you want.

This is not about loyalty, loyal or no loyal , nobody has the right to act like that , period. So you think is tight to lie and commit extortion ? That’s the point here.
Bad business. Even if you walk in to the store for the first time , nothing can justify it. I am sorry you are trying to defend actions that are undefendable.