Patek theorists, haters, conspiracy buffs...

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by AK797

The sad truth is money is now so much of what we talk about on the forum, before we used to try to avoid it as money talk is rather crude and we stuck to watch talk, but the dynamics have changed so much lately and greed, for lack of a better word, is not good for the forum.

All kidding aside you make a valid point and I was eluding to it previously when I mentioned people acting out of financial self interest or as you appropriately put it greed. Their are a variety of imbalances of power throughout the system, all of which brings out the worst in people.

I do like that on the 5522 the papers come delivered with your name and address on them. In spite of that attempt to regulate resale I am sure some will still punt for profit. Not to say it's hopeless but I don't see many solutions that don't further the divide you mention. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that larger collectors continue to benefit at the expense of newer participants who will never be trusted based on the actions of a conspicuous minority.

So a long winded response of you are correct sir. Only exception is I don't blame PP as much as I blame Darwin, Gordon Geco, and the beast inside all of us.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

All kidding aside you make a valid point and I was eluding to it previously when I mentioned people acting out of financial self interest or as you appropriately put it greed. Their are a variety of imbalances of power throughout the system, all of which brings out the worst in people.

I do like that on the 5522 the papers come delivered with your name and address on them. In spite of that attempt to regulate resale I am sure some will still punt for profit. Not to say it's hopeless but I don't see many solutions that don't further the divide you mention. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that larger collectors continue to benefit at the expense of newer participants who will never be trusted based on the actions of a conspicuous minority.

So a long winded response of you are correct sir. Only exception is I don't blame PP as much as I blame Darwin, Gordon Geco, and the beast inside all of us.

The funny thing is that most of us here are not short of a quid or two so any actual profit realised is pretty irrelevant, but still money, much like love, makes us all a bit crazy, or to quote a Smiths song, can turn a good man, bad.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

All kidding aside you make a valid point and I was eluding to it previously when I mentioned people acting out of financial self interest or as you appropriately put it greed. Their are a variety of imbalances of power throughout the system, all of which brings out the worst in people.

Only exception is I don't blame PP as much as I blame Darwin, Gordon Geco, and the beast inside all of us.

Originally Posted by AK797

The funny thing is that most of us here are not short of a quid or two so any actual profit realised is pretty irrelevant, but still money, much like love, makes us all a bit crazy, or to quote a Smiths song, can turn a good man, bad.

This sums up nicely how we have arrived where we are. I could not agree more with Neil. The furthest these conversations got in the past was "they are a fair store of value."

I blame Rolex. They started it with the Daytona and PP followed suit with the 5711 and 5524. Then AP with the jumbo and others. Down the rabbit hole.

Before you jump on me, sure the 5711 was always limited but not to the degree that you couldn't get one at retail if willing to wait. Ditto the 15305 and now the 15407 can't be had.

I don't believe this model maximizes profits. I Just don't.

[Bryant Park]

For context I started a thread poll on the Open Discussion board to get a sense among our community what people's behavior would be if given a chance to flip a C Daytona for 5k. To people's credit they are being honest and roughly a full third would buy and sell to grey.

I don't begrudge anyone that choice but it does limit the extent to which this "gaming" and "jockeying" can be curtailed in my opinion no matter what the companies can do. Their only choice would be to push up supply and diminish the unfulfilled demand. This would squeeze out the premium but also diminish scarcity and cache. Tough call but I get why Rolex and PP maintain the scarcity.

[Watch Admirer]

Patek or other brands get away with their practices because of us consumers. Buy what you like, and not only for exclusivity - you will be much happier on the long run trust me. The 5522a for instance, i honestly cannot understand how someone can find it beautiful. The design has been copied trizillion times already by so many brands.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Watch Admirer

Patek or other brands get away with their practices because of us consumers. Buy what you like, and not only for exclusivity - you will be much happier on the long run trust me. The 5522a for instance, i honestly cannot understand how someone can find it beautiful. The design has been copied trizillion times already by so many brands.

Personal taste aside, I think this is by far the best advice!

What I'm not understanding is why Patek doesn't simply raise the price of the 5711 and 5522 to establish the true market? Why not end the games with resellers and strong arm AD tactics? Raise the price to $50k and let's see who really wants these simple stainless watches. I suspect more rational heads would prevail, but what do I know?

No disrespect, but are fans of these watches loving the watches, or loving the privilege?

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Personal taste aside, I think this is by far the best advice!

What I'm not understanding is why Patek doesn't simply raise the price of the 5711 and 5522 to establish the true market? Why not end the games with resellers and strong arm AD tactics? Raise the price to $50k and let's see who really wants these simple stainless watches. I suspect more rational heads would prevail, but what do I know?

No disrespect, but are fans of these watches loving the watches, or loving the privilege?

Will be interesting to see the Holland & Holland FP Journe simple manual wind (not even sub-seconds) nearing $50k for an ed. of 66. Given an annual production of ~1000 this is a bit less of a percentage than the 5522 of total annual production. My guess is they all sell.

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

When a dealer says "it will mold to your wrist later" that is a sales tactic and should not be interpreted as a warranty of any kind

Also, I don't see why anyone would walk into a Patek dealer with flip flops. Nobody should wear them unless at the beach or maybe in a gym shower

Wow. Hating on watch lovers that wear flip flops as a casual fashion statement and that had nothing at all to do with the thread. The OP said a salesman won't be wearing flip flops selling PP at ADs.

Sorry but I think I've bought all of my watches while wearing flip flops and wear them during the day 8 months of the year with nice polos. Guess I'm not to the age of being comfortable wearing gator/leather slip-ons without socks yet

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by codecow

Will be interesting to see the Holland & Holland FP Journe simple manual wind (not even sub-seconds) nearing $50k for an ed. of 66. Given an annual production of ~1000 this is a bit less of a percentage than the 5522 of total annual production. My guess is they all sell.

I'd like the opertunity that's for sure! It's a nice LE!

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Wow. Hating on watch lovers that wear flip flops as a casual fashion statement and that had nothing at all to do with the thread. The OP said a salesman won't be wearing flip flops selling PP at ADs.

Sorry but I think I've bought all of my watches while wearing flip flops and wear them during the day 8 months of the year with nice polos. Guess I'm not to the age of being comfortable wearing gator/leather slip-ons without socks yet

I was referring to paragraph 1 of post #11

[Alford78]

Originally Posted by Watch Admirer

Patek or other brands get away with their practices because of us consumers. Buy what you like, and not only for exclusivity - you will be much happier on the long run trust me. The 5522a for instance, i honestly cannot understand how someone can find it beautiful. The design has been copied trizillion times already by so many brands.

I've said this in a few 5522 threads but show me a watch that is 40-43mm (preferably 42,43mm), 12 metal or gold applied Arabic numerals filled with lume, no date, preferably blue dial that is rather plain, and three lumed hands that only requires a quick glance to tell even the seconds. There isn't one that I'm aware of so hope you can point me to one.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I was referring to paragraph 1 of post #11

Your post is sort of reiterating the AD mentality I speak of though....you're claiming that you shouldn't wear flip flops while buying a Patek. I'm originally from Florida...by the beach. I *shouldnt* walk into a Patek AD in Florida because I have on shorts or flip flops? That's silly to me. There's a Patek dress code for perusing their selection? It's not a membership fee based club gathering. I'm purchasing a tangible good from them.

[justdate]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Personal taste aside, I think this is by far the best advice!

What I'm not understanding is why Patek doesn't simply raise the price of the 5711 and 5522 to establish the true market? Why not end the games with resellers and strong arm AD tactics? Raise the price to $50k and let's see who really wants these simple stainless watches. I suspect more rational heads would prevail, but what do I know?

No disrespect, but are fans of these watches loving the watches, or loving the privilege?

The halo effect from the secondary market premiums on certain models and perceived scarcity is pure marketing gold for the watch brands. It really doesn't get better than that, I mean they have truly struck oil. Not that they'd admit it! That PP have people queueing up globally and begging and fighting to hand over $25,000 or whatever for a basic time and date steel watch which is not even that rare is just genius.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by dmash

Your post is sort of reiterating the AD mentality I speak of though....you're claiming that you shouldn't wear flip flops while buying a Patek. I'm originally from Florida...by the beach. I *shouldnt* walk into a Patek AD in Florida because I have on shorts or flip flops? That's silly to me. There's a Patek dress code for perusing their selection? It's not a membership fee based club gathering. I'm purchasing a tangible good from them.

By the beach in Florida, the culture might be more laid back. But in midtown manhattan or central HK, flip flops might be viewed less favorably

I realize there is no dress code. But any time we meet a new person, we are being judged whether we like it or not.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

By the beach in Florida, the culture might be more laid back. But in midtown manhattan or central HK, flip flops might be viewed less favorably

I realize there is no dress code. But any time we meet a new person, we are being judged whether we like it or not.

You'd have to be a lunatic to wear flip flops in Manhattan. Your feet would either get a disease or you'd lose a toe from some guy pushing a shawarma cart

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

By the beach in Florida, the culture might be more laid back. But in midtown manhattan or central HK, flip flops might be viewed less favorably

I realize there is no dress code. But any time we meet a new person, we are being judged whether we like it or not.

As long as we are now talking fashion are this suitable for an AD visit?

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

As long as we are now talking fashion are this suitable for an AD visit?

For you, yes, definitely

[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

For you, yes, definitely

Ironic that they are the first shoes I have owned that mask the horrible smell of my feet

[Watch Admirer]

Originally Posted by Alford78

I've said this in a few 5522 threads but show me a watch that is 40-43mm (preferably 42,43mm), 12 metal or gold applied Arabic numerals filled with lume, no date, preferably blue dial that is rather plain, and three lumed hands that only requires a quick glance to tell even the seconds. There isn't one that I'm aware of so hope you can point me to one.

Agreed 100%, at this level beauty is really in the details, but that’s also my point-is one drawn to the watch for its beauty, or for its exclusivity, or perhaps a bit of both?


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[Alford78]

Originally Posted by Watch Admirer

Agreed 100%, at this level beauty is really in the details, but that’s also my point-is one drawn to the watch for its beauty, or for its exclusivity, or perhaps a bit of both?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But you said this design has been "copied a trizillion times". I have literally searched for hours on end for such a design without any luck. I did find a sub $2000 with an ETA at 40mm in blue but lacked the "12" and the dial could be a tad more plain for my liking. But, that was after 12+hrs of searching from micro brands, independents, all the way through the top tier brands. So just kind of hard toaccept someone saying this design has been done trizillion times when I can't even find one that contains "most" of its traits.

But I get what you're saying in this last post! I'll post the watch I did find when get on taptalk.

[Alford78]

Best I could find but actually like it quite a bit even though the second hand is a little funky, smaller than I'd prefer, and has some extra writing on the dial. I could have the second hand changed out and be rather happy with it on a nice strap I think though. Might give it a shot sometime.




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[KarlS]

All too complicated...I choose my watches at Vaselworld and wIt for delivery between Ictober and February. I don't sweat, I don't panic and I don't really care..comes when it comes...I think I place my 5131R order in Ictober 2016...if a 5131 happens ..cool..if it doesn't hardly houngbyo throw all my toys and charge off to VC etc. if I liked those watches more now I would buy them...

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Wow. Hating on watch lovers that wear flip flops as a casual fashion statement and that had nothing at all to do with the thread. The OP said a salesman won't be wearing flip flops selling PP at ADs.

Sorry but I think I've bought all of my watches while wearing flip flops and wear them during the day 8 months of the year with nice polos. Guess I'm not to the age of being comfortable wearing gator/leather slip-ons without socks yet

I don't envy anyone's time pieces on this forum and when a TRF brother buys a very expensive piece I, like everyone else, am very happy for them, but what I do envy with a passion you can only dream of is being able to wear flip flops 8 months of the year! I love the UK, best place on Earth, but damn I wish we could have more of your weather... and I don't mean the Hurricane that is coming on Monday!

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Alford78

Wow. Hating on watch lovers that wear flip flops as a casual fashion statement and that had nothing at all to do with the thread. The OP said a salesman won't be wearing flip flops selling PP at ADs.

Sorry but I think I've bought all of my watches while wearing flip flops and wear them during the day 8 months of the year with nice polos. Guess I'm not to the age of being comfortable wearing gator/leather slip-ons without socks yet

I wear flip flops all the time. I'm about to put some on to accent my 5522.

[KarlS]

excuse my finger (which came up as "ginger") problems on previous posts spelling.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by codecow

I wear flip flops all the time. I'm about to put some on to accent my 5522.

You can wear whatever you want with the 5522 and still look cool

[lapince]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You'd have to be a lunatic to wear flip flops in Manhattan. Your feet would either get a disease or you'd lose a toe from some guy pushing a shawarma cart

In Paris one summer, maybe around 20 years ago, in some places you could see people walking bear foot, and believe me the Manhattan streets are much cleaner than in Paris, it was hilarious, a kind of new age hippy crazy idea, lasted one summer not more, I guess there weren't many survivors of that trend

[Socal to az]

If I’m wearing flip flops and an ad at a Watch store, car store, any store doesn’t want to sell to me, they are an idiot. I mean I’m all for dressing nice but dang son- don’t take away my flip flops! Especially cause lately I’ve been wearing them as much as possible recovering from surgery to repair a torn Achilles.

[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by AK797

I don't envy anyone's time pieces on this forum and when a TRF brother buys a very expensive piece I, like everyone else, am very happy for them, but what I do envy with a passion you can only dream of is being able to wear flip flops 8 months of the year! I love the UK, best place on Earth, but damn I wish we could have more of your weather... and I don't mean the Hurricane that is coming on Monday!

Time to move to Southern California brother Neil........ A wonderful place where you could drive a roadster cars, wear flip flops & wear fancy watches....

[Socal to az]

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

Time to move to Southern California brother Neil........ A wonderful place where you could drive a roadster cars, wear flip flops & wear fancy watches....

30+ years in SoCal and you couldn’t pay me to move back. You are forgetting the traffic, congestion, crime, high cost of living. No thank you.