Polish or not to polish

[THerzl]

Guys,

I'm getting a bit obsessed with this whole polish or not to polish hype. I never really payed attention to it but since my Sub is almost 10yo, it's getting time for its first service. I see a lot of watch cases with these typical round chamfers. Needless to say this mostly concerns watches from the 80's, 90's and early 00's.

Now most likely, these have had more than 1 service and material had been removed multiple times. But what I also noticed is that a lot of 90's and 00's Subs received somewhat odd looking brushed chamfers. To illustrate, here is an example of a 2010 Random Serial 16610. This watch is still very young and yet, to my eyes, ruined at first service.

(This is not my watch)


Let's look closer.


The edges are rounded. It's not severe, but knowing this watch is only from 2010 and had only 1 service..... I start to worry. What's more. The brushed chamfers are reflecting the light in an odd looking way compared to how it's supposed to be originally. click. The distinct crossed brushed lines that characterize the classic Sub, are gone here...

This scares the shit out of me to bring in my 16610 from 2009 for a full service. It feels like a gamble.

Now, I completely don't understand how Rolex "refinishes" a case. So let's assume the following: Classic Sub in mint condition with only a few shallow spots on the brushed surface of the chamfers. How will RSC address this watch?

A. They simply touch up the existing brush with their brushing machine and thereby removing the spot(s).
B. They grind down (all 4) the brushed chamfers to a flat surface and "apply" a whole new brushed surface.

Seeing pictures like above, I'd place my bets on B. This, obviously causes more loss of material than A. This may also be the reason why I see odd looking brushed chamfers on many occasion watches. I've even seen 16610 that received a 116610 brush!! Doubt Rolex is responsible for it, but still.

Then there's this "just ask for a light polish". w.t.f. does that mean? In other words, what is the general consensus on sending in a mint watch: polish, or not to polish? Or "light polish"?

Very curious to what you all have to say.

Thanks.

[Tony64]

Are you saying that the watch shown was polished by RSC?

[THerzl]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Are you saying that the watch shown was polished by RSC?

I do not have information on that. Why?

[Bigblu10]

Since this concerns you I have an answer. Since you are in the US, there are several very good independent CW21 watchmakers and some here on the forum. Vanessa and Rik are two of them. These indies will only service your watch and not refinish if you request that. Consider this alternative if you are apprehensive about the RSC. But I have been reading a lot here lately about RSC "GRINDING" down the lugs to refinish. I don't believe that's how it is done. Call up a watchmaker and ask them how a watch is really refinished. They will be honest and tell you what is exactly done.

[SevenWays]

My watches get dinged up. I don't worry too much about it. I don't abuse them or anything but I don't try to keep them looking like new, either. It is at the end of my arm and I'm going to bang it into things just going through life doing life things. Unless it really started looking bad, I wouldn't bother getting it polished. On my wrist, it would probably pick up some new ding pretty quickly.

I've had my Rolex for two weeks and I already had to dig paint out of the links. Oh, well.

[aquatimerfla]

Polish

Re-brush of bracelet is fine however

[amh]

Based on all the polishing threads here, I would only get it done by Rolex. None of the 'indie' polishes look like the factory finish. Flame me if you wish, but you're destroying the watch if you decide to go the indie route.

I'll bet the watch in the pic has some aftermarket polish done to it. There's also a local jewelry store I frequent and they tend to have a few used watches available. Sometimes they happen to have a NOS and those are in good shape. More often I see their used Rolexes have been sent somewhere for a 'polish.' Actually the bracelets are very dull as a result, I would never buy a Rolex from them (they are not an AD, just a family jeweler.) (But I buy all my wife's jewelry there, nice people! )

For me there are only two options:
1. Send to Rolex for service and possibly allow polish
2. Leave it alone

[THerzl]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Are you saying that the watch shown was polished by RSC?

Apparently the watch in the pic is serviced at an official Rolex dealer called Schaap-Citroen Amsterdam. It’s not a RSC but yet official?

[SevenWays]

It all depends, then, what their policy is. Many ADs would do an independent job for servicing/polishing to save their customers some money, unless it is warranty work. My AD always sends everything to the RSC, warranty or not.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by THerzl

I do not have information on that. Why?

Because it looks very subpar for what I'd expect from RSC.

A properly polished watch should look virtually new, without loss of contour or altered brushings.

Consider that Rolex themselves must polish even their new watches prior to final production and sale. No excuse for a bad result if done by a reputable source.

[THerzl]

I’d never consult any indie watchmaker. Let alone letting them polish my watch.

Now I’m still curious HOW Rolex deals with existing brushes surface. Will they grind down the brushed surface? This sounds horrible to me and will only consider this when the watch is been worn down. If they, on the other hand, only refreshes the chamfers, I’d let them do it on watch.

So...refinish or refresh. These are different things. Think about it.

[Devildog]

With the lighting on that picture (speakeing fro a photographer's standpoint) its very difficuly to tell how bad that refinishing actually is. My brand new oyster bracelet looked very much like those lugs in certain photographs depending on the light.

Coarsly finished lugs can look just right in pictures but horrible in real life.

Also, there would only be a need to grind down any part of the case prior to either repolishing to a mirror finish or rebrushing the brushed parts in the event that there were deep enough scratches or dings to require that.

Most repolishing or refinishing is no more aggresive than a machine polish of a car's paintwork. Only microns of material are removed. Moist refinishing of the brushed areas basically just realigns the grain.

If the watch in your pictures is as bad as the pictures make out (and as above, the camera does indeed lie) I doubt very much its been refinished at RSC service. Heck, I can do a better job than that with a scotchbrite pad.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by THerzl

I’d never consult any indie watchmaker. Let alone letting them polish my watch.

Now I’m still curious HOW Rolex deals with existing brushes surface. Will they grind down the brushed surface? This sounds horrible to me and will only consider this when the watch is been worn down. If they, on the other hand, only refreshes the chamfers, I’d let them do it on watch.

So...refinish or refresh. These are different things. Think about it.

You obviously know very little about independent watchmakers or how a watch is refinished in general. Many independents do superior work to the RSC.

[2th_doc]

http://www.lawatchworks.com

http://instagram.com/losangeleswatchworks


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[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by THerzl

Guys,

I'm getting a bit obsessed with this whole polish or not to polish hype. I never really payed attention to it but since my Sub is almost 10yo, it's getting time for its first service. I see a lot of watch cases with these typical round chamfers. Needless to say this mostly concerns watches from the 80's, 90's and early 00's.

Now most likely, these have had more than 1 service and material had been removed multiple times. But what I also noticed is that a lot of 90's and 00's Subs received somewhat odd looking brushed chamfers. To illustrate, here is an example of a 2010 Random Serial 16610. This watch is still very young and yet, to my eyes, ruined at first service.

(This is not my watch)


Let's look closer.


The edges are rounded. It's not severe, but knowing this watch is only from 2010 and had only 1 service..... I start to worry. What's more. The brushed chamfers are reflecting the light in an odd looking way compared to how it's supposed to be originally. click. The distinct crossed brushed lines that characterize the classic Sub, are gone here...

This scares the shit out of me to bring in my 16610 from 2009 for a full service. It feels like a gamble.

Now, I completely don't understand how Rolex "refinishes" a case. So let's assume the following: Classic Sub in mint condition with only a few shallow spots on the brushed surface of the chamfers. How will RSC address this watch?

A. They simply touch up the existing brush with their brushing machine and thereby removing the spot(s).
B. They grind down (all 4) the brushed chamfers to a flat surface and "apply" a whole new brushed surface.

Seeing pictures like above, I'd place my bets on B. This, obviously causes more loss of material than A. This may also be the reason why I see odd looking brushed chamfers on many occasion watches. I've even seen 16610 that received a 116610 brush!! Doubt Rolex is responsible for it, but still.

Then there's this "just ask for a light polish". w.t.f. does that mean? In other words, what is the general consensus on sending in a mint watch: polish, or not to polish? Or "light polish"?

Very curious to what you all have to say.

Thanks.

There is no reason to have the #$% scared out of you...

You are right, polishing of the watch is a death sentence and totally ruins everything wonderful and luxurious about a quality ROLEX. It is an unspeakable horror.

The best way to avoid this is to NOT have the watch polished in any way whatsoever. Request NO POLISH NO POLISH at service.

Insist that NO POLISH is written clearly on the service estimate before you approve any work and also include your own approval form with a primary and witness signature stating that the watch will not be polished in any way PERIOD.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by THerzl

Apparently the watch in the pic is serviced at an official Rolex dealer called Schaap-Citroen Amsterdam. It’s not a RSC but yet official?

It's an AD with its own service centre and quite a large jewellery chain in the Netherlands.
I once asked them to handle a service for me and ship my watch to the official RSC in Koln. They insisted on using their own facility.
I respectfully declined fearing a less than stellar job carried out by a trainee. In hindsight it appears that I was right.

[THerzl]

Originally Posted by 2th_doc

http://www.lawatchworks.com

http://instagram.com/losangeleswatchworks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well.. ok. Those are some amazingly done chamfers I need to admit.

Originally Posted by joli160

It's an AD with its own service centre and quite a large jewellery chain in the Netherlands.
I once asked them to handle a service for me and ship my watch to the official RSC in Koln. They insisted on using their own facility.
I respectfully declined fearing a less than stellar job carried out by a trainee. In hindsight it appears that I was right.

Damn that's shocking. Happy you didn't let them touch your watch. It's like going to a hair salon blindfolded, not knowing which barber is going to cut your hair. Hair grows back, a ruined case doesn't grow new metal

[THerzl]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

There is no reason to have the #$% scared out of you...

You are right, polishing of the watch is a death sentence and totally ruins everything wonderful and luxurious about a quality ROLEX. It is an unspeakable horror.

The best way to avoid this is to NOT have the watch polished in any way whatsoever. Request NO POLISH NO POLISH at service.

Insist that NO POLISH is written clearly on the service estimate before you approve any work and also include your own approval form with a primary and witness signature stating that the watch will not be polished in any way PERIOD.

I really don't think a "full-service" will necessary ruin the watch. Certainly not when done by RSC. But there doesn't seem to be a general consensus as to servicing a mint watch with the usual shallow swirls on both the polished and brushed surface.

In that case (literally) a few touches from the brushing machine will bring back the shine. BUT again, what about the brushed chamfers? They are already quite thin. If Rolex grinds down the brushed surface and re-apply..... Quite some material will be sacrificed for the sake of removing a few shallow swirls.

I still don't know if RSC re-finishes the brushed chamfers OR carefully re-freshes them as in maintaining existing brush pattern and basically put another one on top.

This makes all the difference IMO!!

[kauffee]

Originally Posted by THerzl

But there doesn't seem to be a general consensus as to servicing a mint watch with the usual shallow swirls on both the polished and brushed surface.

To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, you keep using that word “mint.” I do not think it means what you think it means. If the watch was mint, it would not have those swirls or any signs of wear whatsoever. It would be... mint.

And agree with others that many independents are known to do superior work to the RSC and if I was worried about preserving the lines on my watch I would send it to them first. LAWW would probably be my choice for a polish as I’m on the West Coast.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by THerzl

Guys,

I'm getting a bit obsessed with this whole polish or not to polish hype. I never really payed attention to it but since my Sub is almost 10yo, it's getting time for its first service. . . .
Thanks.

No need to be obsessed or even overly concerned.

At a real RSC your watch is matched to a template to ensure that it still has plenty of metal left, then it is refinished to a Rolex standard. They do not "grind" anything off, they simply re-set the grain and very little metal is removed. Almost nobody can tell if a watch is properly refinished.

Too many today seem to think that there is something wrong with this... Truly, what you need to be concerned with is a ham-fisted guy who goes at it with power tools and burns, grinds, and changes it's contour.

It's up to you if you want this service.. Do you want a watch that looks nearly new, or do you simply want the oil changed and all of the blemishes retained..

When you send your watch to a professional, don't say "polish"...... that means something that you do not want, unless it's a silver candlestick.

[j0oftheworld]

I think the surge of vintage watches lately means a lot of descriptions reading "unpolished" and has a lot of people thinking polishing is bad. You won't be grinding off any of the watch cases features polishing normal wear and tear.

[BlackBay]

I think OP is asking the right question. I am in the same boat with a 2010 random Submariner that I want to send in to RSC Koln within 1-3 years for an overhaul.

My Sub is still in great condition too, having only 1 small dent on the edge. The brushed parts are still looking new. This 1 dent is somewhat pushing me towards RSC... I want to get rid of it since I am looking at it all the time.... But will I let 1 dent victimize all the healthy and virgin chamfers? Hell no... Instead I told myself it needs more dents and spots to legitimate an overhaul.. this is also quite a weird way of thinking, no? Meanwhile, the movement may beg for a service?

So I'd love to know if an overhaul is something "scalable" ... meaning, the fewer the marks/dents, the more subtle the overhaul is. But I doubt this. I think one can state that the same amount of material is sacrificed whether the watch has only 1 tiny scratch or 10 moderate dings on the edges. If that's the case, an overhaul will only be worthy for a watch with a decent amount of wear and tear.

[THerzl]

Originally Posted by kauffee

To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, you keep using that word “mint.” I do not think it means what you think it means. If the watch was mint, it would not have those swirls or any signs of wear whatsoever. It would be... mint.

And agree with others that many independents are known to do superior work to the RSC and if I was worried about preserving the lines on my watch I would send it to them first. LAWW would probably be my choice for a polish as I’m on the West Coast.

OK State 1, better? The watch does have signs of wear. Mostly the bracelet has many swirls but nothing serious.

The polished surface got a bit dull and there are literally 2 tiny spots on 2 of the brushed chamfers. It should take 1 sneeze to make it look brand new in stickers again. Therefor it would be a mortal sin if Rolex addresses the watch in the same manner as one that has all kind of small dings and dangs. If that's the case, fine, but then I will collect more dings and dangs before sending it in. Bang for the buck?

Originally Posted by BlackBay

[.......]

So I'd love to know if an overhaul is something "scalable" ... meaning, the fewer the marks/dents, the more subtle the overhaul is. But I doubt this. I think one can state that the same amount of material is sacrificed whether the watch has only 1 tiny scratch or 10 moderate dings on the edges. If that's the case, an overhaul will only be worthy for a watch with a decent amount of wear and tear.

You pretty much nailed it.... Scalable.... That's the one million dollar question

[faz]

I think people are taking this polish / not polish thing a bit too seriously when it comes to generally available, non vintage, recent model sport watches.

Seriously, I wouldn’t worry about an RSC ( or equivalent master watch maker) polishing an everyday sub or gmt. It makes it nice and new looking for another 5-7 years. I wouldn’t think twice about it.


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[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by THerzl

I really don't think a "full-service" will necessary ruin the watch. Certainly not when done by RSC. But there doesn't seem to be a general consensus as to servicing a mint watch with the usual shallow swirls on both the polished and brushed surface.

In that case (literally) a few touches from the brushing machine will bring back the shine. BUT again, what about the brushed chamfers? They are already quite thin. If Rolex grinds down the brushed surface and re-apply..... Quite some material will be sacrificed for the sake of removing a few shallow swirls.

I still don't know if RSC re-finishes the brushed chamfers OR carefully re-freshes them as in maintaining existing brush pattern and basically put another one on top.

This makes all the difference IMO!!

Why take the chance? Having the watch serviced without any polishing is the only way to be sure.

[THerzl]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Why take the chance? Having the watch serviced without any polishing is the only way to be sure.

If it's there for a movement service, it'd be a nice addition if it comes back with shine and luster. Knowing (almost) no material had been sacrificed for a few swirls. This isn't really a weird concern

[kauffee]

Originally Posted by THerzl

OK State 1, better? The watch does have signs of wear. Mostly the bracelet has many swirls but nothing serious.

The polished surface got a bit dull and there are literally 2 tiny spots on 2 of the brushed chamfers. It should take 1 sneeze to make it look brand new in stickers again. Therefor it would be a mortal sin if Rolex addresses the watch in the same manner as one that has all kind of small dings and dangs. If that's the case, fine, but then I will collect more dings and dangs before sending it in. Bang for the buck?

All kidding aside, I understand your concerns. If we all weren't a little obsessive about these watches we wouldn't be on this site.

Here's my argument for an independent over an RSC... when you send it to RSC you're sending it to a black box. You have no idea whether the person doing the polishing has been on the job for 20 years or it's their first day. And while RSC horror stories are few and far between, there's enough on this site to concern many people.

On the other hand, if you send it to LA WatchWorks, Vanessa, Rik Dietel, etc you know exactly who's doing the work. You can talk to them and tell them your concerns, point out the specific spots that bother you, and have them explain exactly what they're planning to do. These folks have Rolex parts accounts so they get the same abrasives the RSC uses and they are extremely talented at what they do. It would make me sleep easier at night.

[THerzl]

Originally Posted by kauffee

All kidding aside, I understand your concerns. If we all weren't a little obsessive about these watches we wouldn't be on this site.

Here's my argument for an independent over an RSC... when you send it to RSC you're sending it to a black box. You have no idea whether the person doing the polishing has been on the job for 20 years or it's their first day. And while RSC horror stories are few and far between, there's enough on this site to concern many people.

On the other hand, if you send it to LA WatchWorks, Vanessa, Rik Dietel, etc you know exactly who's doing the work. You can talk to them and tell them your concerns, point out the specific spots that bother you, and have them explain exactly what they're planning to do. These folks have Rolex parts accounts so they get the same abrasives the RSC uses and they are extremely talented at what they do. It would make me sleep easier at night.

Thank for the understanding, mate.. this makes sense

So no way to talk to the man who's working on your watch at RSC? Also not if you're bringing in the watch personally? Curious to these horror stories btw...

[2th_doc]

Originally Posted by THerzl

Thank for the understanding, mate.. this makes sense

So no way to talk to the man who's working on your watch at RSC? Also not if you're bringing in the watch personally? Curious to these horror stories btw...

I recently had my 16710 serviced in Lititz, Pennsylvania USA. Even though I dropped the watch off through my local AD. I called RSC directly on a couple different occasions. I gave them my watch serial number and they asked me what AD I sent it in through. Once verified they were very helpful and answered my questions. I didnt ask a question related to the one you are asking in this thread. But to me if you asked to speak to the watchmaker working on your watch I wouldn’t think it was an unreasonable request. And I am basing that on how friendly and helpful they were to me.


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[sensui]

Originally Posted by kauffee

All kidding aside, I understand your concerns. If we all weren't a little obsessive about these watches we wouldn't be on this site.

Here's my argument for an independent over an RSC... when you send it to RSC you're sending it to a black box. You have no idea whether the person doing the polishing has been on the job for 20 years or it's their first day. And while RSC horror stories are few and far between, there's enough on this site to concern many people.

On the other hand, if you send it to LA WatchWorks, Vanessa, Rik Dietel, etc you know exactly who's doing the work. You can talk to them and tell them your concerns, point out the specific spots that bother you, and have them explain exactly what they're planning to do. These folks have Rolex parts accounts so they get the same abrasives the RSC uses and they are extremely talented at what they do. It would make me sleep easier at night.

Best answer thus far. I would also like to add that I like to look @ this watch dependent....if it's a modern Rolex with the maxi case I wouldn't worry much sending it to RSC as there's a lot of metal and there's little chance they can mess up the refinish. On the older 5/4 digit references (service parts replacement issues aside), the room for error is far smaller with thinner lugs to begin with.

I far prefer my local CW21 watchmaker to do all work on my Swiss watches because you have a direct communication to who's working on the watch (especially to ensure no original parts gets replaced without good reason)....and yeah, I take no chances with polishing....always a big pass for me. If I sell the watch down the line and someone is nitpicking a miniscule ding over the age of the watch or small hairline scratches etc.....probably not a buyer I want to deal with myself. I'll leave them to the grey/professional resellers to hassle with.