Red Submariner

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by roh123

C-I rivets have unmarked ends. They usually don’t fit any model very well.

They really do look awful.

[fusionstorm]

To the naked/untrained eye, the differences between double Red Sea Dweller early dials and later dials are miniscule. So unless folks think the market preferences for red Subs will differ substantially from DRSDs, then we know that vintage collectors will always place a premium on rarity (based on what later MK dial DRSDs sell for compared to earlier MK dials).

Perception about Red sub pricing is colored a bit by the fact that meters first red Sub complete sets hit the market rarely, while later feet first red Sub sets are more common. But if you were to put two equivalent condition red Sub sets up for auction, the meters first red would sell for noticeably more than the feet first red.

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by SubKing

there is no such thing as "perfect"... however, if one does surface, I can promise you it will fetch a huge premium regardless of the ft vs meters scenario.



We don't need to agree on it either, I agree with that. Far more new collectors in the game that I have spoken with time and time again, all who don't want to spend a higher price for a meters first variation. Times are changing whether we like it or not.



condition and full sets are commanding the premiums these days. this is not directed toward tropical variants as stated earlier. It is known about the paint defect that meters first subs had that caused the discoloration. I am just referring to standard meters first examples.



There is a small premium meters vs ft, but the huge premium days are over I feel.

Try telling that to a MK 2 Tropical Full Set... Glad to know how you feel, next time I’ll make an even trade of a MK 6 for your MK 1/2...

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Pretty sure this would have come with a 93150 bracelet. Not sure why they wouldn't have sourced a period correct bracelet.

Not sure what's going on here with the end link, but I'd check to see that the serial hasn't been worn away by rubbing here.

93150 solid link didn’t exist then. It left the factory with a 9315 folded link bracelet.

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Maybe not so Rookie..

The crazy world we are living in now shows the red sub has almost caught up in price with the DRSD..



As to meters first or ft first red 1680's, times have also changed and the prices have almost caught up with each other as well. Many of the new collectors of the world don't want to pay the premium for something as simple as a meters first VS a ft first example.. Unless the dial has some tropical effects, I have noticed this trend within the market the past few years.



Like I said, crazy world.

So you’re telling me that I can trade a Single Red for your Double Red? With little or no premium whatsoever? Where do I sign up?

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by roh123

Equal condition and you will see a big difference. But a mint feet first will cost more than an average mters first. Condition is everything nowdays.

Very much agreed buddy

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by roh123

Each to their own. In my opinion the meters first red subs will fetch a much higher price as they are much, much more collectible. For less than perfect condition I can imagine the spread is smaller as there aren’t buyers around that would value meters first higher than a similar feet first.

We don’t need to agree on this. I will just congratulate whoever finds a perfect meters first for the same price as a later version.

Well said my friend!

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by frankoman

Understood - but it's not a mistake. That's how we learn.

Do you know that a Mark One and Mark Five has very different dial features? And they are almost 7-8 years apart? Completely two different products altogether.

[frankoman]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

Do you know that a Mark One and Mark Five has very different dial features? And they are almost 7-8 years apart? Completely two different products altogether.

Yes I do thanks !

My point that you seem to be missing, is that it is not a "Rookie Mistake" to make a comparison, or to ask questions. This is a friendly forum for learning and discussing watches. Insults are not welcome.

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by frankoman

Yes I do thanks !

My point that you seem to be missing, is that it is not a "Rookie Mistake" to make a comparison, or to ask questions. This is a friendly forum for learning and discussing watches. Insults are not welcome.

LOL. So “Rookie Mistake” is an insult? You must be real fun at parties.

[frankoman]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

LOL. So “Rookie Mistake” is an insult? You must be real fun at parties.

Yes, and so is your assumed omniscience.

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by frankoman

Yes, and so is your assumed omniscience.

I like you a lot. What a funny guy.

[R.O.L.E.X]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

Do you know that a Mark One and Mark Five has very different dial features? And they are almost 7-8 years apart? Completely two different products altogether.

Subs are garbage all-round

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by R.O.L.E.X

Subs are garbage all-round

You’re an even funnier guy.

[scooba]

Hi I have a Complete 1680 red sub meters first with original sales invoice for $195 in 1972 complete with both sets off punched papers and green strip outer box and inner green box with the white silk lining the case back is 1.69 the bracelet is a 9315 with 2.70 it was sold in New York and has a 9315 bracelet, Im in no way saying the C1 bracelet above is incorrect as the watch is 5/6/7 later

FWIW I gave $22,500 for it in OCT 2014 to Andrew Shear at the time several thought I had lost my mind , but condition is everything , It now looks like it was a bargin ,

Im also interested what is the correct price

Tom suggested I could ask what I wanted for mine

[redordead]

it was a bargain scooba....great buy

[redordead]

even better bargain at $195 ;)

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

So you’re telling me that I can trade a Single Red for your Double Red? With little or no premium whatsoever? Where do I sign up?

Did I or did I not clearly state that my opinions were excluding any tropical features? Pretty sure I said that more than once.

I also wonder if you’re the same “Baron from Singapore” over on VRF who’s posts get deleted more than they stay up, due to causing problems and calling out fakes that aren’t actually fakes? I wonder if you’re that same guy?

If you are, I think it’s time to change hobbies.. stamps maybe?

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Did I or did I not clearly state that my opinions were excluding any tropical features? Pretty sure I said that more than once.

Sure let’s not talk about Tropicals... I’ve got 11 single reds all ft first. Paid roughly 3-5k usd for them. But I’m willing to trade up to all drsds with you. When can we proceed?

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

Sure let’s not talk about Tropicals... I’ve got 11 single reds all ft first. Paid roughly 3-5k usd for them. But I’m willing to trade up to all drsds with you. When can we proceed?

You twist what people say to mean what you want it to mean just to make yourself look good. I honestly cannot even talk to you and don’t want to especially with your behavior on other forums. I think it is you that’s the “rookie” for constantly providing false information

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by SubKing

You twist what people say to mean what you want it to mean just to make yourself look good. I honestly cannot even talk to you and don’t want to especially with your behavior on other forums. I think it is you that’s the “rookie” for constantly providing false information

I’m not interested in looking good. Just interested in debunking nonsense from people like you who are only interested in furthering their agenda. I wouldn’t be surprised that you have one or more Single Red Feet First that is currently being marketed.


The blatant fact is, a Feet First Single Red would never be equal in value to a Mark One Metre First Single Red, or any Metre First Single Red for that matter. Neither would it ever be equal in value to a Double Red Sea Dweller. If it is, you would have gladly traded with me.


Pardon me but I don’t think I’ve ever had the pleasure with interacting with you on any other Forum. If someone else had a problem with me, I would’ve been removed from said Forum long ago.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

I’m not interested in looking good. Just interested in debunking nonsense from people like you who are only interested in furthering their agenda. I wouldn’t be surprised that you have one or more Single Red Feet First that is currently being marketed.


The blatant fact is, a Feet First Single Red would never be equal in value to a Mark One Metre First Single Red, or any Metre First Single Red for that matter. Neither would it ever be equal in value to a Double Red Sea Dweller. If it is, you would have gladly traded with me.


Pardon me but I don’t think I’ve ever had the pleasure with interacting with you on any other Forum. If someone else had a problem with me, I would’ve been removed from said Forum long ago.

buddy, agenda? Talking about conspiracies? I have 0 red subs that I am selling.. now you’re digging and making up scenarios to try to further your points.. but it’s actually making you look bad.

You come on to this forum and call a fellow member a rookie for no reason. Just to start a fight. Then to further twist and turn what people are saying.

I can tell you 100% that you cause more trouble on VRF then good. You have no idea what you’re talking about. I have seen it time and time again.
Please, just stop.

[SgWatchBaron]

I’m not your buddy, buddy.


Fantastic that you don’t have any red subs to sell. I think keeping them and then typing nonsense in forums to try and drive up the price is a great plan.


Also, I don’t see how the term “rookie” is insulting or even condescending. It’s just a description for a relatively new person to the Vintage watch world who can’t tell the difference between a MK 1 and a MK 5. A Feet First from a Metre First. And then try to equate their values.


Yeah sure, I’m basically on VRF to purchase stuff, so I don’t see how that would negatively affect the forum. So once again, more nonsense from you again without any proof to substantiate your wild accusations.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

I’m not your buddy, buddy.


Fantastic that you don’t have any red subs to sell. I think keeping them and then typing nonsense in forums to try and drive up the price is a great plan.


Also, I don’t see how the term “rookie” is insulting or even condescending. It’s just a description for a relatively new person to the Vintage watch world who can’t tell the difference between a MK 1 and a MK 5. A Feet First from a Metre First. And then try to equate their values.


Yeah sure, I’m basically on VRF to purchase stuff, so I don’t see how that would negatively affect the forum. So once again, more nonsense from you again without any proof to substantiate your wild accusations.

What ever you say

[SgWatchBaron]

Originally Posted by SubKing

What ever you say

Sorry we had that little tango. I sincerely apologise. I’m very happy that you are advocating for me and my 11 Feet First Single Reds. I mean our Feet First Red Subs. ;) You’re the best! Keep it up.

[Styles Bitchley]

Man, it's gettin' hot in here.

[Chunky]

I'm going to get some pop-corn

[thomaspp]

Fun thread. Yes, of course a meters first sub is worth substantially more than a feet first based on rarity alone, as should a Mk1 be more than a Mk2 meters first.

Originally Posted by SgWatchBaron

Sorry we had that little tango. I sincerely apologise. I’m very happy that you are advocating for me and my 11 Feet First Single Reds. I mean our Feet First Red Subs. ;) You’re the best! Keep it up.

Good stuff Baron. You are a serious hoarder. Why do you not follow anyone on instagram? Just curious. Have a good day.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by roh123

They were available until the late 70’s unlike the Swiss 7206 which ended in the 60’s.

I did not know this. thanks.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Fun thread. Yes, of course a meters first sub is worth substantially more than a feet first based on rarity alone, as should a Mk1 be more than a Mk2 meters first.



Good stuff Baron. You are a serious hoarder. Why do you not follow anyone on instagram? Just curious. Have a good day.

I think this is a great topic and great to discuss.

I was merely trying to discuss many collectors feelings about meters vs ft examples. Many people share the same feelings as swish.

There are just as many mk's made of meters vs ft. mk 1-3 and then mk 4-6.

So "rarity" for the earlier examples is something I feel was created in the market place to command higher premiums, even higher than they already were.

We are also only speaking about a year or less between each mk's production.. So a mk3 1680 red isn't really that much older compared to a mk4 example.. we are talking a couple years. It's not like a gilt VS White...

I for one have noticed mk4,5,6 raise in value at an exponential rate when compared to the value of a general DRSD which has seemed to kind of just level off in value.

Now compare a ft first vs a meters first. The mk4,5,6 1680's have gained in value and so much popularity because they are more affordable than a meters first example. For many, that small detail isn't worth the premiums being asked for mk1,2,3

Now to make one thing clear, I never said a ft first was worth the same and or more than a meters first red.. I was just simply saying that they are catching up in value to their counter parts.