16570 Explorer ii with incorrect dial. To be avoided?

[UKjacobBS]

Hello all, this is my first post so apologies if it’s in the wrong section of the forum,

I recently spotted a well priced 2004 16570 Polar Explorer ii on the website of one of the UKs largest/most reputable pre-owned watch dealers. Instantly I picked up the phone and put down a deposit to secure the watch.

Having looked closer at the pictures it has a T<25 dial. My understanding was the tritium dials were discontinued after ‘99. As you can see in the attached image cream hour makers appear a different shade to the hands.

I’m now questioning, Is this the incorrect dial? Could I simply switch it with the original? Should I avoid the watch all together?

This is my first pre-owned Rolex purchase so I’d really appreciate some guidance from members of the forum.

Jacob

[JonaG]

Welcome! Since you’ve put down a deposit I’d call the dealer and find out what the situation is. Good on your research that 2004 (F?) and tritium don’t go together. If the dial has been swapped, ie, it was originally a black dial and someone switched to an older polar dial then I would get my deposit back and look elsewhere. You don’t need all that hassle before you’ve even received the watch. Watchfinder?

[knels]

Watch in the photograph looks spot on for Pre 1999 (Dial and Lug holes on case).
I would question the '2004' description with the dealer. Either that or the watch in the picture isn't actually the watch you have agreed to purchase.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by knels

Watch in the photograph looks spot on for Pre 1999 (Dial and Lug holes on case).
I would question the '2004' description with the dealer. Either that or the watch in the picture isn't actually the watch you have agreed to purchase.

Have to agree certainly looks like seller has put wrong date on watch.

[UKjacobBS]

Thanks for the responses chaps!

As suggested I phoned them up, they advise this is a P serial number. From what I can gather this in fact makes it a 2000 model.

The website states that the watch pictured is the actual item I’ve agreed to purchase.

Given that we now know the true year of production, could you advise whether the dial/case/end links look as they should for its age? Could this potentially be one of the last runs of T<25 dials? Or is it still too recent to be an original dial?

I’ve attached a couple more images to help identify.

I asked whether the papers state the original dial colour, they said that the papers don’t contain dial colour information. Can someone here confirm this is true?

[xjeeunitx]

If it is tritium era watch, there should not be a SEL bracelet installed. The bezel is slightly rotated to the left. I wouldn't purchase this.

[Robadob]

Originally Posted by xjeeunitx

If it is tritium era watch, there should not be a SEL bracelet installed. The bezel is slightly rotated to the left. I wouldn't purchase this.

Incorrect. P-serial 16570s came with a 78790A sel bracelet. Clasp should be DE stamped. Case lugholes were also drilled. However, the dial should be Swiss Made, not the earlier tritium dial.

The tritium dial was discontinued in 1998, with the transitional Swiss Only dial occurring predominantly in 99, and the SL Swiss Made dial appearing in the latter part of 99.

[thesharkfactor]

That watch was not a hot seller.. It could quite easily be made in 1999 and first sold as new in 2004. Ask seller to confirm the first letter of the serial number and come back to us.

[Aquaholic_user]

I like the watch but not the dial. And that bezel that's off a nipple hair, would bother me to shreds. I'd find a better example.

SM-N960U

[JonaG]

My Exp II is a P serial, with lug holes, SELs and ‘Swiss Made’ with super luminova.

[DLRIDES]

Do not buy .

[brandrea]

Welcome to the forum.

I won’t chime in authenticity or whether it’s period correct as we have too many experts here who know their stuff.

What I will say is always buy the seller. Seems like too many questions to me.

You shouldn’t have an issue with finding a clean example of this reference from a trusted seller.

[UKjacobBS]

Thanks for the input everyone,

Regarding the bezel, I’ve phoned the dealer again, they suggested that it may appear slightly mis-aligned due to the camera angle. They’ve agreed to send some more pics, which I’ll post on here.

The dealer confirmed It’s a P serial watch (2000).

I’ve looked through every Chrono24 advertised 16570 (with papers) produced in 2000 and not a single one has the “T < 25” dial, they’re all “Swiss Made”.

I also looked at the previous years. Almost all ‘99s are “Swiss” most ‘98’s are “T < 25”, as Rob said.

Given the above and the responses to this thread, my intuitions screaming at me to run away from this one.

Can anyone suggest a legitimate explanation for these inconsistencies? If not I’ll be asking for my money back.

[thesharkfactor]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Welcome to the forum.

I won’t chime in authenticity or whether it’s period correct as we have too many experts here who know their stuff.

What I will say is always buy the seller. Seems like too many questions to me.

You shouldn’t have an issue with finding a clean example of this reference from a trusted seller.

In the UK.. If this is Watchfinder and I suspect it is, that is a trusted (if expensive) seller.

[Robadob]

Originally Posted by xjeeunitx

If it is tritium era watch, there should not be a SEL bracelet installed. The bezel is slightly rotated to the left. I wouldn't purchase this.

My apologies. I’ve just re-read your post and you’re correct. To add to this P-serials were not tritium-era.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

In the UK.. If this is Watchfinder and I suspect it is, that is a trusted (if expensive) seller.

Based on the above, I’d say the need to do their homework before posting watches for sale

[kevc]

Another thing to note is if the dial is tritium and the hands are not, you'll end up with a weird looking watch.

[77T]

The only explanation is that the owner who originally bought this watch wanted a Polar dial. He had a poorly trained watchmaker make the swap (possibly during a service). And the watchmaker didn’t care about being era-correct.

Or your seller is a cobbler...

Either way, don’t buy it.


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[Panos Cosmatos]

Originally Posted by 77T

The only explanation is that the owner who originally bought this watch wanted a Polar dial. He had a poorly trained watchmaker make the swap (possibly during a service). And the watchmaker didn’t care about being era-correct.

Or your seller is a cobbler...

Either way, don’t buy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That’s a good explanation. Could not think of any other reason someone would switch a lumínova era dial for tritium (as opposed to the other way around, which could happen at service).

OP, you may know this, but the tritium dial will also age and discolor over time, which the correct luminova dial won’t do. I personally do not like the look of aged gilded indices from this era (as opposed to aged matte indices, which look great) so that’s something to consider. Some people do like it though.

How much are you paying? The upshot of it all is this is not a rare watch and there is no reason to settle. You should be able to find a great example with the correct dial, probably for cheaper than these people are charging, without much trouble.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by 77T

The only explanation is that the owner who originally bought this watch wanted a Polar dial. He had a poorly trained watchmaker make the swap (possibly during a service). And the watchmaker didn’t care about being era-correct.

Or your seller is a cobbler...

Either way, don’t buy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It could also be a stock photo of the wrong year'd model!!! Have the conversation minimally before buying!!!

[77T]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

It could also be a stock photo of the wrong year'd model!!! Have the conversation minimally before buying!!!

See post #5
That’s what the seller told the OP in conversations.


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[Explorerii216570]

It’s a SEL but look at the gap between the lugs and the end links. At the best case this is a franken Rolex worst case it’s fake with some real parts. The watch is pretty sus.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by UKjacobBS

. . .

I also looked at the previous years. Almost all ‘99s are “Swiss” most ‘98’s are “T < 25”, as Rob said.

Given the above and the responses to this thread, my intuitions screaming at me to run away from this one.

Can anyone suggest a legitimate explanation for these inconsistencies? If not I’ll be asking for my money back.

There is nothing suspicious or untoward here. There is also nothing wrong with buying a watch that isn't "period correct" as some of the posers here seem to imply.

It is very likely that the owner wanted a Polar dial, and simply had the black dial swapped out. Very common with Rolex watches.

Buy it if you like it, buy it.. It isn't suddenly going to go bad, rot your wrist, or explode on you, it's a good looking watch.

[Bladeshot]

The bezel is misaligned. Not a camera angle. That would bother me, too. It comes down to price and your expectations. Can you live with the dial having been swapped?

And the point about the dial and hands being a combination of tritium and perhaps luminova - they would be different color lume. And they would age differently - patina. I’d skip this one.

[UKjacobBS]

Thank you all for the useful advice! I didn’t feel 100% confident so ended up cancelling the order.

Fortunately they have another in stock (k Serial). Everything looks as it should on this one so I’ll be picking it up next weekend!

[UKjacobBS]

Originally Posted by Panos Cosmatos

That’s a good explanation. Could not think of any other reason someone would switch a lumínova era dial for tritium (as opposed to the other way around, which could happen at service).

OP, you may know this, but the tritium dial will also age and discolor over time, which the correct luminova dial won’t do. I personally do not like the look of aged gilded indices from this era (as opposed to aged matte indices, which look great) so that’s something to consider. Some people do like it though.

How much are you paying? The upshot of it all is this is not a rare watch and there is no reason to settle. You should be able to find a great example with the correct dial, probably for cheaper than these people are charging, without much trouble.

£5950 with box and papers, which seems in line with the prices I’m currently seeing on eBay/Chrono24

[Nikrnic]

Good going OP. The K serial is a good year, i had one, you'll still have a holes case as well.

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[Panos Cosmatos]

Originally Posted by UKjacobBS

Thank you all for the useful advice! I didn’t feel 100% confident so ended up cancelling the order.

Fortunately they have another in stock (k Serial). Everything looks as it should on this one so I’ll be picking it up next weekend!

Nice congrats

[Mr DateJust]

Good choice not to buy. Lots of issues with that one.

[Oldfellow]

Happy for you that it worked out OP, I think you made the right call.
You will love your new Explorer Polar. ( K serial).
I happen to have a P Serial and it is very comfortable to wear and I smile each time I look at it.