To Refinish or Not Refinish a Rare Sub?

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I agree.

X2


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[Kevin of Larchmont]

I think the watch looks beautiful. No cosmetic changes please, just a reputable service.

[Mendota]

This is such a fascinating subject, not just this particular thread.

Let's hypothetical this for a moment with some things that actually have some value and are classics, but also well loved and used by a relative.

Your father left you his classic Corvette Stingray after he passed. Some of the hoses and a few parts under the hood need replacement, and the body panels have some minor dents and swirls, along with a few scratches. Do you let the paint stay that way, only to further deteriorate (even though your dad most likely would have fixed it eventually), or do you actually restore it to a nice factory finish through polishing and waxing, and working with a good detailer to restore the luster? Maybe your dad accidentally dinged the door one afternoon or dropped the can of wax on the hood and left a mark. You know what your dad would say? WTF are you thinking? Don't leave it, fix it!

You just inherited a 1955 Chris-Craft boat that your dad picked up and loved to use on the weekends. The engine needs a few parts but is otherwise great. The teak deck needs to be sanded and refinished, oiled, etc. as all boat decks do. Do you literally just let the sun beat the sh*t out of it and let the wood rot, because your dad spilled his drink on this board or he dropped a screwdriver over here and dented this one, or do you actually sand and oil it to bring it back to nice condition?

These are two real world examples of objects with actual value. These two objects were loved and used by your father, but unless you are completely clueless, you are going to restore these two things back to amazing condition. A scratch on a classic car door or deteriorating wood on a boat isn't any different from scratches on a watch. Why on Earth would you leave it? I don't get this at all. It's not a 1959 6542 GMT Master or 5510 big crown sub.

[TimeLord2]

The watch I got from my Dad (~1974 serial) had a bezel that would not turn and neither Rolex nor LAWW or PR were able to do anything to get it to rotate and accept an insert that wouldn't have to be glued in. I opted to switch out the bezel ring with a period correct version with some nice teeth. Got a small discount on the new one by letting him keep the old one. Many here would ask why I did not keep the original bezel ring but realistically what was I going to do with it? put it in a box? It didn't rotate and couldn't hold a press fit insert.

The watch is on my wrist right now and actually works as it should, which makes me love this watch even more. Love the new crystal too, very clear and no dings around the edge. Still debating the case refinishing thing but that might be all I ever do, debate…

[16610Swiss]

Not rare, just send to rolliworks or LA Watch Works to refinish if needed to make it look factory and service. Rolex will ruin it...

[drrd]

Originally Posted by AdamW

Thoughts? Unfortunately this is the only photo he sent me.

Ignoring refinishing, you didn't say why it needs a service.

Is it running? Stays wound if worn? Keeps reasonable time?

[904VT]

Originally Posted by BobtheViking

If it was me, I'd send it to someone for a movement service and nothing else.

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This is what I would do myself. So long as the Sub was one that was going to be worn often. I'd just wear and enjoy so long as it is running ok. The refinish could make it look nice, but again if you're going to wear it often I don't always see the point.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by Mendota

This is such a fascinating subject, not just this particular thread.

Let's hypothetical this for a moment with some things that actually have some value and are classics, but also well loved and used by a relative.

Your father left you his classic Corvette Stingray after he passed. Some of the hoses and a few parts under the hood need replacement, and the body panels have some minor dents and swirls, along with a few scratches. Do you let the paint stay that way, only to further deteriorate (even though your dad most likely would have fixed it eventually), or do you actually restore it to a nice factory finish through polishing and waxing, and working with a good detailer to restore the luster? Maybe your dad accidentally dinged the door one afternoon or dropped the can of wax on the hood and left a mark. You know what your dad would say? WTF are you thinking? Don't leave it, fix it!

You just inherited a 1955 Chris-Craft boat that your dad picked up and loved to use on the weekends. The engine needs a few parts but is otherwise great. The teak deck needs to be sanded and refinished, oiled, etc. as all boat decks do. Do you literally just let the sun beat the sh*t out of it and let the wood rot, because your dad spilled his drink on this board or he dropped a screwdriver over here and dented this one, or do you actually sand and oil it to bring it back to nice condition?

These are two real world examples of objects with actual value. These two objects were loved and used by your father, but unless you are completely clueless, you are going to restore these two things back to amazing condition. A scratch on a classic car door or deteriorating wood on a boat isn't any different from scratches on a watch. Why on Earth would you leave it? I don't get this at all. It's not a 1959 6542 GMT Master or 5510 big crown sub.

I’ll take the bait.

I don’t know anything about the value of Corvettes or Chris-Crafts but let’s say we’re talking about a hundred thousand dollar car and a half million dollar boat vs maybe a ten thousand dollar watch. The scale is so totally different between these objects that the analogy is flawed. And while the car and the boat more than likely got used intermittently by imaginary dad the watch is a more intimate object that could’ve been on his wrist daily for many years and bear the scars of his activity. So I would say that a scratch on a car door or deteriorating wood on a boat are less personal than the mundane marks on a watch of a day to day life. And due to the potential value of those larger objects when restored they are not an accurate counterpoint to the watch. So I still say to keep the watch in the cosmetic condition that dad left it and get it running well so you can put your own marks on it.

However by my own admission I could be completely clueless.

[Rebel]

Originally Posted by BobtheViking

If it was me, I'd send it to someone for a movement service and nothing else.

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This.

[Gab27]

I would send it to RSC and both cosmetically and functionally restore it. Effectively he could experience what his dad experienced when it was brand new.

[alphadweller]

I'd let the RSC bring it to like new condition. It won't change the fact it was his daddy's watch.

[Mendota]

They are actually all about the same. A vintage Rolex 6538 or 6536 sub, Corvette, and boat from the same era are generally all in the same value ballpark depending on a lot of variables, of course. I was mainly just suggesting that some of this talk about not cleaning up a watch is a little goofy, especially when we aren't talking about a valuable vintage piece. Then I would be selective as a collector. RSC and Rolliworks can do some amazing things and literally make a watch look brand new again. I would want my boys to service and clean up mine. That's all.

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[Gab27]

Originally Posted by Mendota

They are actually all about the same. A vintage Rolex 6538 or 6536 sub, Corvette, and boat from the same era are generally all in the same value ballpark depending on a lot of variables, of course. I was mainly just suggesting that some of this talk about not cleaning up a watch is a little goofy, especially when we aren't talking about a valuable vintage piece. Then I would be selective as a collector. RSC and Rolliworks can do some amazing things and literally make a watch look brand new again. I would want my boys to service and clean up mine. That's all.

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I agree. Let a skilled Rolex watchmaker make that watch look like new so my son can experience putting on a 'new' Rolex the way I experienced it when it was new. Give him that new, shiny Rolex feeling.

[JSCP]

It’s his watch now, make it his by refinishing.

Hermes former president, Monsieur Dumas-Hermes said: “Luxury is what can be repaired”

Rolex, like it or not, is luxury….so his father left him
luxury to continue a new story… a rebirth of sorts

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by 16610Swiss

Not rare, just send to rolliworks or LA Watch Works to refinish if needed to make it look factory and service. Rolex will ruin it...

/\ /\ /\


THIS


I wouldn’t send that watch to a Rolex Service Center under ANY circumstances !

[904VT]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

/\ /\ /\


THIS


I wouldn’t send that watch to a Rolex Service Center under ANY circumstances !

I've seen some really crappy finishing from LA Watchworks as well. I think it just depends on how busy a place is and if they are allowing unskilled technicians to work on watches in an effort to increase turnover.

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I've seen some really crappy finishing from LA Watchworks as well. I think it just depends on how busy a place is and if they are allowing unskilled technicians to work on watches in an effort to increase turnover.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. My watch was refinished by LA Watchworks and it looks absolutely stellar. Placed next to a factory new Rolex of the same model, you can't tell which one is refinished. Even under a loupe, it is hard to tell much of a difference in the brush marks. Generally, they seem to do excellent work and they absolutely crushed it with mine.

However, there have also been some posts on this forum from people who have had work done by them that does not approach this level of excellence.

[faz]

I personally would have no problem and in fact would insist on a refinish of my watch that is being serviced. I like like-new finishing. Makes me love the watch that much more.


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[77T]

Based on the watch, and the circumstances, it’s best at the RSC.

There are no rare parts to be preserved here.

Just send it in and get the regular overhaul.


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[rushca01]

Having inherited watches myself, I have chosen not to have the refinished. The blemishes remind me of my Dad, just movement service for me.

[Rori]

Originally Posted by AdamW

My friend just inherited a very low production "Swiss" only 14060 Sub from his dad. It's pretty beat up and likely has never been serviced.

He is going to send it to Rolex to have it serviced, but due to the scarcity of this model, (only made from 1998-1999), would you also have Rolex replace the bezel and insert and refinish the watch? Would that affect the value? or is it better to just have it serviced so it runs well and leave the blemishes? I don't know if he would ever sell it but just wondering which would best allow the watch to retain its value?

He hasn't sent the watch in yet for an estimate but I'm guessing it would take a fair amount to get it looking good.

Thoughts? Unfortunately this is the only photo he sent me.

Movement service is ok, but he should instruct Rolex not to change visible parts.
In Europe there’s legal actions against Rolex service centers for swapping original hands, dials backcases and even cases for new ones. By doing so they have destroyed the value of countless watches forever.



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[Rori]

Originally Posted by BobtheViking

If it was me, I'd send it to someone for a movement service and nothing else.

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That’s it.


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[Billy D]

Originally Posted by Mendota

Your father left you his classic Corvette Stingray after he passed. ...WTF are you thinking?

It's very common across all collectibles that once you start refinishing you've lost something. There is a significant difference between 'restored' and 'refreshed'. Restored cars (think frame off) can be as good or better than new, but they lose their history. Refreshed cars should operate as new, but retain their years of character. Some buyers prefer fully restored, while some prefer refreshed.

I learned of the Japanese concept of Wabi-sabi a few years ago and really appreciate the concept of finding beauty in imperfection.

[Mystro]

You want Rikki. Tell him what you want. He has a Rolex account and has done mega $$$ classic Rolex servicing. He will do whatever you want.

http://www.timecareinc.com/

[Watch Maniac]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I agree.

I agree with that as well.

[MJZRolex]

Originally Posted by MasonDixon

Nope, not on a watch that I inherited from my father. A good cleaning and full movement service is all that I would do.

I agree. Preserve the history of the watch. He can always decide later if he wants a complete refresh.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Mendota

This is such a fascinating subject, not just this particular thread.

Let's hypothetical this for a moment with some things that actually have some value and are classics, but also well loved and used by a relative.

Your father left you his classic Corvette Stingray after he passed. Some of the hoses and a few parts under the hood need replacement, and the body panels have some minor dents and swirls, along with a few scratches. Do you let the paint stay that way, only to further deteriorate (even though your dad most likely would have fixed it eventually), or do you actually restore it to a nice factory finish through polishing and waxing, and working with a good detailer to restore the luster? Maybe your dad accidentally dinged the door one afternoon or dropped the can of wax on the hood and left a mark. You know what your dad would say? WTF are you thinking? Don't leave it, fix it!

You just inherited a 1955 Chris-Craft boat that your dad picked up and loved to use on the weekends. The engine needs a few parts but is otherwise great. The teak deck needs to be sanded and refinished, oiled, etc. as all boat decks do. Do you literally just let the sun beat the sh*t out of it and let the wood rot, because your dad spilled his drink on this board or he dropped a screwdriver over here and dented this one, or do you actually sand and oil it to bring it back to nice condition?

These are two real world examples of objects with actual value. These two objects were loved and used by your father, but unless you are completely clueless, you are going to restore these two things back to amazing condition. A scratch on a classic car door or deteriorating wood on a boat isn't any different from scratches on a watch. Why on Earth would you leave it? I don't get this at all. It's not a 1959 6542 GMT Master or 5510 big crown sub.

Well, not all hypothetical dads are the same. I never want my watches polished at service, as the scratches (on stainless sports watches, at least) are part of its story. Now, we're not talking about anything that could impact structural integrity (massive dent; cracked crystal; eroded gasket), nor would I leave to chance anything that indicated a mechanical problem.

But to me, scratches on a watch are part of wearing it, while meticulously maintaining a classic car or boat are equally a part of enjoying them.

Similar to both, though, I'd have no issue with a repair shop using brand new, OEM, parts made for that model, instead of finding vintage ones to swap in (or trying to clean/reshape damaged ones) for mechanical repairs. However for the outside, I'd want the intended look, whether that's a "new" or "worn" look.

[MWW70s]

I can't even imagine myself going beyond the movement servicing