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Old 10 October 2017, 08:10 AM   #31
Saoirse32
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Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver View Post
I think a lot of folk are pissed off at people, mostly greys, who buy up desirable references and knock them out at a significant mark-up. Take the Daytona as a classic example; we're now seeing the same with the Sub LVc. So when someone like yourself comes on here and openly asks how to make a profit, it doesn't sit well. This might be total BS, I don't know, but like you said, this is the internet and we all have an opinion and this is just how I read it.



If you want a Panerai, then buy one to love and to wear. Buying one to flip for a profit is dangerous and, quite frankly, a mug's game.


I get it, I do. Iíve bought and sold many a watch, mostly at a loss (who has not lol). All I was saying is that if I had a chance to flip one and make a few bucks, no harm/no foul. I sold my LVc after almost 3 years of ownership recently having a pretty good idea people would be getting ďsqueezed,Ē and the person who bought it will enjoy it and probably make a few bucks in the long run. It goes both ways...Iíve shopped quite a bit, and maybe the market in Southern California is that different but obtaining one here for that discount was unheard of recently and this was a one time only thing- and only open to those in the know. I wonít apologize for being capitalistic but I do understand some peoples sensitivities when I comes to these matters. I love watches, and they cost a lot so I think we ALL would like to know (or at least feel better knowing) that our purchases hold their value or even increase once and a while. Iím sure Iím not alone...SlŠinte!


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Old 10 October 2017, 08:50 AM   #32
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I don't fault you at all for trying to flip quick and make a nice profit. Why not? Again the reality that most people are trying to point out is that with Panerai unless you're getting a hard to get high demand watch (none that would readily be "in stock"), you're not going to profit anything trying to flip it.
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Old 10 October 2017, 11:04 AM   #33
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I get it, I do. Iíve bought and sold many a watch, mostly at a loss (who has not lol). All I was saying is that if I had a chance to flip one and make a few bucks, no harm/no foul. I sold my LVc after almost 3 years of ownership recently having a pretty good idea people would be getting ďsqueezed,Ē and the person who bought it will enjoy it and probably make a few bucks in the long run. It goes both ways...Iíve shopped quite a bit, and maybe the market in Southern California is that different but obtaining one here for that discount was unheard of recently and this was a one time only thing- and only open to those in the know. I wonít apologize for being capitalistic but I do understand some peoples sensitivities when I comes to these matters. I love watches, and they cost a lot so I think we ALL would like to know (or at least feel better knowing) that our purchases hold their value or even increase once and a while. Iím sure Iím not alone...SlŠinte!


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Who wouldn't want to make a quick buck? I have no beef with that as long as it's above board and it's not at the expense of someone else (if someone scores, someone else loses but I think you know what I mean here). I don't blame you and I don't think many others here would either. However, if I can offer some advice (believe me, I'm trying not to sound patronising here which is not easy in written media) if you go down this road again, please think carefully about your delivery

I do hope you pick up a PAM though. I stick with my view that you should look for a 233. Wear it, love it, believe it. If you 'get it', you'll then see another reason why some of the replies you received on this and your other thread were a little, um, passionate. Each watch brand has it's fans and followers but none are more ferociously partisan towards their favourite as Paneristi.

On another point, having read this thread right through from top to bottom, I'm actually beginning to feel mildly concerned that Panerai could be heading down the same road as Omega. Perhaps someone can help me out here but Omega seem to be freely available from grey sellers here for prices approaching 30% off MSRP and the values absolutely tank on the used market. That tells me that they're either way over-priced to begin with or they're losing their appeal. Or both. I hope Panerai isn't going that way.
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Old 10 October 2017, 11:31 AM   #34
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On another point, having read this thread right through from top to bottom, I'm actually beginning to feel mildly concerned that Panerai could be heading down the same road as Omega. Perhaps someone can help me out here but Omega seem to be freely available from grey sellers here for prices approaching 30% off MSRP and the values absolutely tank on the used market. That tells me that they're either way over-priced to begin with or they're losing their appeal. Or both. I hope Panerai isn't going that way.
From my perspective as someone whom is quite passionate about Omega and getting more and more into Panerai:

Omega's issue with their newer releases is not based upon their quality. Both the quality and mechanics of their newer releases are absolutely top notch. However, they suffer from a combination of under appreciation and over production. They are making too many variations of the different models (even though I personally appreciate the variety) which leads to a watering down of their line up. This is combined with supply outpacing demand. Ergo, too many models for too few buyers is resulting in the lowered second hand costs. Quality wise, they will stand toe to toe with production houses on the market at their various price points and tier. Vintage and certain LEs for Omega are a totally different story.

My concern with Panerai is that they too are turning in the direction of overproducing model variation leading to the same watering down effect. Add to that some of the construction sacrifices they've made recently on new releases (snap on case back, much lower WR, ect) and higher production may result in a similar phenomenon.

None of the above is fact of course. Simply my personal opinion as a passionate owner of both brands.
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Old 10 October 2017, 12:25 PM   #35
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People don't care about grey v. AD. They do care about the bottom line. 20% is not enough of a discount to be able to make money on flipping. You need 40% in order to make a clear profit. As was said, the market on Panerai has tanked. There are lots for sale on the classifieds here and fairly high too. But if you take the time to look at the ads they have usually been bumped 10 or 12 times on the high priced ones and most of the watches being sold aren't particularly special. Then again some do sell on our classified ads. Those are the ones that are priced low and are particular models most people want.
Definitely avoid the ceramic ones due to breakage problems and the fact that many won't buy them under any circumstances to due those problems.

As in the case cracking?
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Old 11 October 2017, 12:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver View Post

On another point, having read this thread right through from top to bottom, I'm actually beginning to feel mildly concerned that Panerai could be heading down the same road as Omega. Perhaps someone can help me out here but Omega seem to be freely available from grey sellers here for prices approaching 30% off MSRP and the values absolutely tank on the used market. That tells me that they're either way over-priced to begin with or they're losing their appeal. Or both. I hope Panerai isn't going that way.
Not to be rude, but where have you been?
I have been with the brand for almost 20 years.
Yes ,they are overpriced.
Yes, discounts are now expected
No , I would not pay retail, or even close
I was buying Panerai back when you could buy a 000, walk out of an AD and sell it for 30%more the same day. That is over, at least for now. I love the brand more than ever, but you have to be smart and change buying habits now (since about 2014).
I look at a luxury watch purchase as a sunk cost and enjoy it. If anyone is buying with the idea of a return somewhere down the line, they are setting themselves up for disappointment in my opinion.
Panerai makes too many watches at too high of a price at the moment for them to retain their value.
I'm okay with it and have just reset my expectations. In fact, I am enjoying this because the available options are better than ever and the prices in preowned market are great.
Just like these new green and blue dials. I love them...but trust me, they will flood the market with them and I am waiting to buy at about 50% of retail when that happens.
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Old 11 October 2017, 01:25 AM   #37
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Not to be rude, but where have you been?
I have been with the brand for almost 20 years.
Yes ,they are overpriced.
Yes, discounts are now expected
No , I would not pay retail, or even close
I was buying Panerai back when you could buy a 000, walk out of an AD and sell it for 30%more the same day. That is over, at least for now. I love the brand more than ever, but you have to be smart and change buying habits now (since about 2014).
I look at a luxury watch purchase as a sunk cost and enjoy it. If anyone is buying with the idea of a return somewhere down the line, they are setting themselves up for disappointment in my opinion.
Panerai makes too many watches at too high of a price at the moment for them to retain their value.
I'm okay with it and have just reset my expectations. In fact, I am enjoying this because the available options are better than ever and the prices in preowned market are great.
Just like these new green and blue dials. I love them...but trust me, they will flood the market with them and I am waiting to buy at about 50% of retail when that happens.
Where have I been? I could ask you the same question, my friend. I have freely admitted on here on several occasions that I'm no expert and I'm new to watch collecting. I've loved watches since I was a toddler but only started collecting serious watches three years ago.

As for flooding the market with LE green and blue dials, I'm not so sure that's going to happen somehow. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong (I still cringe when I think about the discontinuation of the domed crystal on the 233 )
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Old 19 October 2017, 05:40 AM   #38
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I bought my 005 at over 20% off from an AD and that is considered a desirable model. I don't think you can flip and make money on any watch, except some of the limited edition PP's and maybe vintage but that's a different rabbit hole. Holding value is one thing, profit is another.

You buy Pam because you like the watch, not as a business move.
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Old 19 October 2017, 06:25 AM   #39
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(I still cringe when I think about the discontinuation of the domed crystal on the 233 )
I'm sorry for being OT, but the dome crystal has been discontinued on the 233?!?!
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Old 19 October 2017, 06:50 PM   #40
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I'm sorry for being OT, but the dome crystal has been discontinued on the 233?!?!
No, fear ye not my friend.

I stated that it was discontinued on the basis of some duff information I'd been given (or I'd misheard). Either way, I didn't bother checking. Following howls of derision on here, I checked with my guy at OP Singapore and he confirmed that the 233 DOES still come with a domed crystal. I then posted a new thread on here and then spent the following week wiping the egg off my face
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Old 19 October 2017, 08:03 PM   #41
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I'll pay you a 10% premium if you can get me a GT2RS at msrp!
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Old 19 October 2017, 08:31 PM   #42
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No, fear ye not my friend.

I stated that it was discontinued on the basis of some duff information I'd been given (or I'd misheard). Either way, I didn't bother checking. Following howls of derision on here, I checked with my guy at OP Singapore and he confirmed that the 233 DOES still come with a domed crystal. I then posted a new thread on here and then spent the following week wiping the egg off my face
Thanks, Ruud, that's a relief. I was going to have to find a way to get one if the dome was being eliminated, and the timing is terrible for me, as some other watch decisions were just made.

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Old 19 October 2017, 09:05 PM   #43
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I think Panerai is a cool brand and was a serious collector in the early to mid 2000's. I became very frustrated with the brand for the marketing and the LE releases that only went to special clients. Got out and went back a few times, always to get out again. I have purchased a 422 within the last few months and could not be more pleased with the watch. I purchased at a fair price from an AD but understood where the pre-owned market was. Unless you can get the watch at close to AD cost, Panerai has three pricing tiers for the watches, so make sure you understand which one your watch falls into. You will be lucky to break even. When I am thinking of a purchase from an AD I check with the TS and see what the trade value is and I can make an informed decision from there. Good luck.
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Old 20 October 2017, 04:12 PM   #44
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I'll pay you a 10% premium if you can get me a GT2RS at msrp!
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Old 20 October 2017, 04:14 PM   #45
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I think Panerai is a cool brand and was a serious collector in the early to mid 2000's. I became very frustrated with the brand for the marketing and the LE releases that only went to special clients. Got out and went back a few times, always to get out again. I have purchased a 422 within the last few months and could not be more pleased with the watch. I purchased at a fair price from an AD but understood where the pre-owned market was. Unless you can get the watch at close to AD cost, Panerai has three pricing tiers for the watches, so make sure you understand which one your watch falls into. You will be lucky to break even. When I am thinking of a purchase from an AD I check with the TS and see what the trade value is and I can make an informed decision from there. Good luck.
Good to hear. I'm out of pocket now but will be picking it up in December. And I've heeded the advice of those who have much more experience with the brand and decided to keep my purchase and just enjoy.
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Old 20 October 2017, 05:21 PM   #46
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Good to hear. I'm out of pocket now but will be picking it up in December. And I've heeded the advice of those who have much more experience with the brand and decided to keep my purchase and just enjoy.
Which reference did you go for?
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Old 21 October 2017, 01:36 PM   #47
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Iím sorry to say but the flipping days are over.


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Old 24 October 2017, 04:56 AM   #48
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"Flip a Panerai for a profit" - Missing since 2012...

If you buy at 20% off, you'll only lose 20% when you try to sell...
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Old 25 October 2017, 01:36 AM   #49
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Iím sorry to say but the flipping days are over.

I must agree. 5+ years ago you could flip watches that grew old and tired on your wrist and not lose too much $$$. BUT nowadays it is painstaking to flip and/or sell timepieces, especially those in less demand like Panerai, Breitlings, etc. I've lost 30-50% on a two Breitlings and if I bought another Panerai it would be to keep for awhile. I bought my PAM104, fully serviced from a boutique, for $4,750. Now they sell for much less if you're patient.

IMHO
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Old 25 October 2017, 02:28 AM   #50
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Why not ask the dealer their thoughts on this plan?

Think that would be the smartest decision
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Old 30 October 2017, 07:47 AM   #51
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Which reference did you go for?


I went for the 1499. Wonít be able to pick it up (along with my new Breitling Seawolf) until mid-December. Definitely went against the grain with a white dial for my first but I was looking for a white dialed watch and I fell in love with the look.


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Old 30 October 2017, 03:29 PM   #52
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I went for the 1499. Wonít be able to pick it up (along with my new Breitling Seawolf) until mid-December. Definitely went against the grain with a white dial for my first but I was looking for a white dialed watch and I fell in love with the look.


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The 1499 has caught my eye too! I want to add one down the road.


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