To those who think Patek isn't catering to the younger demographic

[DeeTee]

They are 100%

Young people want Patek. The fact that people are griping about Nautilus prices and obtaining pilot watches etc means it's working. Young money wants products that are difficult to attain. They are basically taking a page out of Hermes handbook with the Birkin/Kelly bags.

If they made enough Nautilus to fill in demand, the big $$$ young generation doesn't want it. Patek might have known this, or coincidently the way they operate just created a perfect storm.

Let the young consumers lust build by selling them annual calendars and calatravas that are sitting collecting dust, just so maybe one day they can get lucky to purchase at MSRP a Nautilus. Young consumers love this game.

For the more traditional collectors, this will be a nightmare. They are not used to this GT3RS, Yeezy, Birkin, etc hype beasts.

Btw to make things worst, every big entertainer/ball player/kardashian is flashing Patek now. Patek has a solid foundation of customers for the next 30 years.


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[martinr]

My son is young, successful, and has $$$ from his business and he couldn't care less about watches. I asked him if his friends are interested and they aren't either. I just returned from a Patek tour with a group of 22. Average age was around 57. Tell my son and his friends the Kardashians are into Patek and they'll tell you that's a good reason to never buy one.

[GB-man]

Much like Rolex years ago, Pateks base is being invaded by people who have no interest in the brands history or watches in general.

In short, Patek is, in the US at least, finally becoming a status symbol for the masses and not just the WIS country club folks.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by martinr

My son is young, successful, and has $$$ from his business and he couldn't care less about watches. I asked him if his friends are interested and they aren't either. I just returned from a Patek tour with a group of 22. Average age was around 57. Tell my son and his friends the Kardashians are into Patek and they'll tell you that's a good reason to never buy one.

+1

In my group of friends, mostly young professionals in their late 20s to late 30s, very few people are interested in traditional watches, preferring smart watches like the Apple Watch. Of those that are interested in mechanical watches - I can tell you that aside from Rolex, the new generation is not buying just on brand names, but basing their decision on some perception of "value of money". One of my friends recently consulted me about a purchase he hopes will last a lifetime - he was genuinely flabbergasted when he found out all he could get from Patek (assuming buying from an AD) for $30K was a simple time-only watch. In the end, he purchased a JLC ultra-thin perpetual calendar.

I personally, am tired of playing games like this to get a watch. It doesn't make them more desirable to me, as I don't give a crap about impressing people by flashing something that's rare or hard to get. There are other manufacturers who will gladly take my money without having to play games and be humiliated/demeaned by dealers all around.

[martinr]

Another thing to think about, young people (again info from my son) don't like the boutique or retail buying experience. They're followed around the store by some old salesperson they can't relate to at all and are told things like the watch is almost impossible to get, it's an investment, it will only go up in value etc. He said maybe if he wore a suit he'd buy a nice watch to have the look but the brand is unimportant.

[dmash]

Yeah, sorry, but I strongly, strongly disagree. Younger generation could care less about watches (and I have a fairly accurate opinion considering I am part of it). My entire group is late 20s to mid 30s and the vast majority think it's silly to pay more than $500-$1000 for *just a watch*. Agree with the above poster on a average Patek buyer being much older. Not to mention, let's get out of RolexForum mentality, your average 25-35 year old watch buyer, even if interested in watches, has absolutely nowhere near enough funds to cover a Patek. A Rolex Sub price is about the max they want to spend. At that age you're possibly buying first home, starting family, getting married. In the real world, a $25k watch purchase (which doesn't even cover many Patek models) is incredibly unrealistic at that point in life.

The popularity of pilot Pateks and Nautilus models is not due to a large influx of younger buyers.....it's just due to Patek increasing in popularity as of late.

[remz07twos]

Yea I’m going to have to disagree with this. As a millennial, all of my friends care about experiences more. Likewise, I don’t think anyone is willing to play the little games to get these watches. The scarcity of nautiluses isn’t driven by millenials. It’s driven by either collectors who are willing to wait months for a piece, or by people looking to make a quick buck flipping them.

I am planning to get a 5167 or a /1a next year, and if it’s not available when I’m ready I’ll visit go buy a Devon an explorer and a seamaster and move on.

[dmash]

^ also agree with this. ALL the young generation is obsessed with NOW, Amazon overnight shipping, zero wait, etc. They want to flaunt whatever is hot, immediately. No way they're waiting 4-5 years for a *chance* to drop $30k on something that might not be as popularity by then. Of course you could argue that a premium could be paid to get said item immediately.....but paying double the price on a pair of Yeezys is merely part of one month's salary. Paying $50k on a Patek? That's a large chunk of most every younger guy's *annual* salary.

[MJaber]

What a heap of nonsense.

I'm 30 and have zero interest in the Nautilus or most of PP modern offerings, reason being their terrible customer service,inflated shortage and 5 year and up waitlists which is stupid.

The vast majority of people i know are barely interested in mechanical watches and if they are getting serious they go for a Rolex, JLC and increasingly Nomos. Beside, have you ever met a millennial who is patient?

The Kardashians with all their plastic surgery are not gonna last 30 years- if they do in fact have any impact on PP sales its only temporary.

[tng11]

I don't think Patek is necessarily appealing to those hard working white-collar late 20s-30s millennials, but more the ultra-rich, nouveau riche types who have wealth from previous generations and spend all day on Instagram flashing piles of cash, driving supercars and expensive booze. Those are the ones who also want things right away, and are willing to pay any price to get it, as money does not have any real value to them, as they did not necessarily have to work hard for it.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by MJaber

What a heap of nonsense.

I'm 30 and have zero interest in the Nautilus or most of PP modern offerings, reason being their terrible customer service,inflated shortage and 5 year and up waitlists which is stupid.

The vast majority of people i know are barely interested in mechanical watches and if they are getting serious they go for a Rolex, JLC and increasingly Nomos. Beside, have you ever met a millennial who is patient?

The Kardashians with all their plastic surgery are not gonna last 30 years- if they do in fact have any impact on PP sales its only temporary.

Agree on everything.

And the point about Nomos is incredibly true. Stowa and Nomos are fantastic bang for your buck at such a low price point. If not immediately a *Rolex guy*....those two, along with IWC, are what a huge proportion of younger people go with. They simply view it as pointless to spend more.

[UmichNJ]

Disagree. I’m 37 and the craftsmanship in watches has great appeal, and in many ways replaces the lust for cars that others in their 30s may have. Proud owner of a 5164, 5726, 5522, and other non-Pateks.


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[Tay821]

Originally Posted by martinr

My son is young, successful, and has $$$ from his business and he couldn't care less about watches. I asked him if his friends are interested and they aren't either. I just returned from a Patek tour with a group of 22. Average age was around 57. Tell my son and his friends the Kardashians are into Patek and they'll tell you that's a good reason to never buy one.

I nearly threw up when the wife was watching that trash and rob kardashian was wearing an iced out NAut

[remz07twos]

Originally Posted by dmash

^ also agree with this. ALL the young generation is obsessed with NOW, Amazon overnight shipping, zero wait, etc. They want to flaunt whatever is hot, immediately. No way they're waiting 4-5 years for a *chance* to drop $30k on something that might not be as popularity by then. Of course you could argue that a premium could be paid to get said item immediately.....but paying double the price on a pair of Yeezys is merely part of one month's salary. Paying $50k on a Patek? That's a large chunk of most every younger guy's *annual* salary.

I wouldn’t say it’s obsessed with now as much as not willing to wait that long for something material. But I agree with the price premium crap. I’m dying for a 5167 and I’ve finally saved enough money by the end of the year. Trying to get a nautilus would most me half of my salary. This is mostly because people are just trying to make an extra buck.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by tng11

+1

In my group of friends, mostly young professionals in their late 20s to late 30s, very few people are interested in traditional watches, preferring smart watches like the Apple Watch. Of those that are interested in mechanical watches - I can tell you that aside from Rolex, the new generation is not buying just on brand names, but basing their decision on some perception of "value of money". One of my friends recently consulted me about a purchase he hopes will last a lifetime - he was genuinely flabbergasted when he found out all he could get from Patek (assuming buying from an AD) for $30K was a simple time-only watch. In the end, he purchased a JLC ultra-thin perpetual calendar.

I personally, am tired of playing games like this to get a watch. It doesn't make them more desirable to me, as I don't give a crap about impressing people by flashing something that's rare or hard to get. There are other manufacturers who will gladly take my money without having to play games and be humiliated/demeaned by dealers all around.

Tom the problem is that the brand loyalty appears to be working. No matter how much u bitch about having to wait for a watch which is unacceptable, crappy service etc etc you stil lust after one. If you didn't you would have walked into another brand, put the cash down and walked. Commonly called "instantaneous gratification" - really my suggestion is just forget PP and find another brand that you like and move on

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by tng11

I don't think Patek is necessarily appealing to those hard working white-collar late 20s-30s millennials, but more the ultra-rich, nouveau riche types who have wealth from previous generations and spend all day on Instagram flashing piles of cash, driving supercars and expensive booze. Those are the ones who also want things right away, and are willing to pay any price to get it, as money does not have any real value to them, as they did not necessarily have to work hard for it.

Nouveau Riche literally means new money, you can't be Nouveau Riche if you have wealth from a previous generation.

[DeeTee]

Originally Posted by tng11

I don't think Patek is necessarily appealing to those hard working white-collar late 20s-30s millennials, but more the ultra-rich, nouveau riche types who have wealth from previous generations and spend all day on Instagram flashing piles of cash, driving supercars and expensive booze. Those are the ones who also want things right away, and are willing to pay any price to get it, as money does not have any real value to them, as they did not necessarily have to work hard for it.

Bingo

There is A LOT of these young ones with $$$ to drop.
There are enough young multimillionaires to cater, they don't even need business from "aspirational" buyers.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Tom the problem is that the brand loyalty appears to be working. No matter how much u bitch about having to wait for a watch which is unacceptable, crappy service etc etc you stil lust after one. If you didn't you would have walked into another brand, put the cash down and walked. Commonly called "instantaneous gratification" - really my suggestion is just forget PP and find another brand that you like and move on

Fair point Karl. I'll bellyache all day long and in the end I'll still want one. I waited patiently for more than 3 years to get an AP 15202 and I have no issue with waiting that long to get the PP I want. But of course, the cherry on top would be getting one sooner than later.

I also don't think I have, as you put it "bitched" a lot about it. Just made my point on the other thread that the ADs I've dealt with (keeping with the theme of that thread), are developing an overly cocky and holier than thou attitude, which works in a hot market like this, but might not be the best strategy in the long term.

[thomaspp]

Patek is doing fine with their sports Watch line up. Nuatilus has gotten more popular and patek is keeping production the same as they don't really adjust for market demand (a couple of years ago you could get nautilus of all kinds pretty easily). Patek is becoming more edgy with their 42mm aquanaut and others. So i disagree....


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[tng11]

Originally Posted by Defiancekofb

Nouveau Riche literally means new money, you can't be Nouveau Riche if you have wealth from a previous generation.

I'm not sure what the lingo is these days, but what I was getting at were those who come from wealthy families, but act in a "nouveau riche" way by being flashy and ostentatious, while "old money" I tend to take more as being more classy and discreet.

[Kyle13]

See, I'm 21 and have wanted a Patek since I was roughly 16-17. I would settle for a nautilus, but I would love to get a grand complication before I die. My generation does want everything *NOW*. Hell, I love amazon prime, but thats for certain things, you have to be realistic with instant gratification.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by martinr

Tell my son and his friends the Kardashians are into Patek and they'll tell you that's a good reason to never buy one.

Sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

Fair point Karl. I'll bellyache all day long and in the end I'll still want one. I waited patiently for more than 3 years to get an AP 15202 and I have no issue with waiting that long to get the PP I want. But of course, the cherry on top would be getting one sooner than later.

I also don't think I have, as you put it "bitched" a lot about it. Just made my point on the other thread that the ADs I've dealt with (keeping with the theme of that thread), are developing an overly cocky and holier than thou attitude, which works in a hot market like this, but might not be the best strategy in the long term.

i would say the more i get into watches and the more i want various patek models the more willing i am to wait for them. Its about a value judgement to me as in i will wait for a patek but i will not wait 10 years to get a Rolex daytona as that is crazy. So its all about perspective.

The key here is getting you FIRST Patek. Once you get that then your impatience gets exponentially less. Maybe PP should actually look at purchase history and try to get some of these new buyers preference sometimes as once they get one they will come back and wait. If they don't get the first one then they are gone for good.

[Jimbogigolo]

All I know is, since the kardashians started carrying birkins, my mother and wife (millennial) rarely wear theirs out.


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[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Jimbogigolo

All I know is, since the kardashians started carrying birkins, my mother and wife (millennial) rarely wear theirs out.


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PM me my wife has a bid

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by DeeTee

They are 100%

Young people want Patek. The fact that people are griping about Nautilus prices and obtaining pilot watches etc means it's working. Young money wants products that are difficult to attain. They are basically taking a page out of Hermes handbook with the Birkin/Kelly bags.

If they made enough Nautilus to fill in demand, the big $$$ young generation doesn't want it. Patek might have known this, or coincidently the way they operate just created a perfect storm.

Let the young consumers lust build by selling them annual calendars and calatravas that are sitting collecting dust, just so maybe one day they can get lucky to purchase at MSRP a Nautilus. Young consumers love this game.

For the more traditional collectors, this will be a nightmare. They are not used to this GT3RS, Yeezy, Birkin, etc hype beasts.

Btw to make things worst, every big entertainer/ball player/kardashian is flashing Patek now. Patek has a solid foundation of customers for the next 30 years.


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There is a lot of truth in what you say.

I don't think Thierry Stern ever said he wants to attract the entire generation of watch enthusiasts in their 20s and early 30s. He knows his target audience - they are HNWIs and the UHNWIs at any age, who appreciate fine watchmaking. Most of his customers will be in the 40+ age group. However he knows that there are many successful people in the younger age group and he wants to produce watches that will appeal to that age group.

I also agree that Patek never set out to target the "aspirational" buyers. Although you can define "aspirational" in different ways, they want people who have already owned several other Swiss watches and have developed an appreciation for Patek Philippe along their watch journey. I don't think Patek expect their watch to be a customer's only or first Swiss watch, although it can certainly happen.

It is often very frustrating for many people when you can't obtain what you want, when you want it and at the price you want it. Delayed gratification and patience are uncommon traits in today's society. However many companies like Patek still operate in their traditional ways.

Interesting analogy with Birkin and I think you are spot on with the comparison. If someone who owns several Birkins walks into a Hermes boutique and someone fairly new to the brand walks into the same store an hour later, the interaction with the salesperson will be quite different.

[Jimbogigolo]

Originally Posted by Bryant Park

PM me my wife has a bid

I don’t think they’re selling it?


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[Bryant Park]

Originally Posted by Jimbogigolo

I don’t think they’re selling it?


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And I was kidding sorry for any confusion created. My wife had her change of view on Birkins when HBOs Sex In the City made them a thing 15 years ago or so. We are old.

[Watch Admirer]

Once you enter the Patek world, most of the other brands would become extra, not needed purchases with disposable money. I would save hard until you can purchase one and just sit back and relax at that stage whether you are a millenial or not. If you appreciate mechanical watches, i do believe Patek is what you should aspire to.

[Ouro9999]

I'am 38, work with technology, i have no plans to buy a smartwatch to myself (0 chance). But i also would never stand in a cure (waiting list) to spend o load of money to buy a watch. Visiting the Rolex ad here to hear about the Daytona ceramic, was informed there is no waiting list, but they do not get them in large numbers, so i would need to wait but no more than 4 months to get mine if i want one. I think mechanical watches when explained properly, has an appeal that no smartwatch can match. It is in my point of view way more intersting than any smartwatch! It works without battery! After i have explained this to my 15 years old son, ano gave him a Tudor. I believe he will never look with interest for another watch other than a mechanical one. But wait 1,2 or 3 years for a watch is just stupid.

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